RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation)

RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress

Message

MzMia -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/16/2007 9:23:05 PM)
I have edited this so much now, I don't know what to put here! There is a lot to be said for spending time communicating relationship styles, rules, roles and the expectations of both sides prior to becoming involved in any relationship. If nothing else I have learned that from reading these message boards.

pixelslave -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 12:22:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn I apologize, but I will discontinue contributing to the thread from hereon, mainly because the back and forth that has gone on has actually derailed the original intention of this thread into commentaries that are part of the fill in the blank commentaries that come from other threads, like "I do things my way, and therefore I don't play games" which actually is feeding into the problem I was talking about before. Sorry littlesarbonn, but I think that's a lame excuse. Threads have a life of their own and wander around wherever they happen to go. Entire wars have been fought in the middle of some before they ever began to get on track or to the intended subject. If you didn't get the feedback or the enlightened discussion you were looking for, it's entirely your choice as to whether or not to attempt to further explain to the rest of us what you were trying to communicate to those of us who apparently don't seem to "get it" from what was in your OP. [>:] quote: For my last comment on this thread (forgetting about 90 percent of what has been printed in this thread), the point is that over the last decade, relationships in bdsm seem to have turned into D/s-lite because instead of the environment AFTER the negotiation, relationships still tend to be watered down with "I don't have to put my foot down because if he doesn't want to serve me, then I don't want him". Unfortunately, nearly everything in our society today is considered "disposable"; particularly people when it comes to relationships. I don't think you can expect to negotiate a relationship without first taking the time to get to know someone. If you do, I think something is amiss. The point being, IMO, there needs to be a bond of some kind before there's a negotiation in order for a genuine relationship to exist. Otherwise, neither party has anything invested in the relationship, only in the negotiation process. That's one of the things that makes things awkward or difficult for both women and men when first meeting each other in this lifestyle. [&:] quote: What has happened, and I kind of suspected this myself, is that the whole spectrum of bdsm has moved so far to one end that practically EVERYONE in it responds from the edges of that new spectrum, incapable of observing anything that exists outside of the present limitations. Aren't you really saying "Different strokes for different folks?" without further explaining or describing what your preferred stroke is like? [8\|] quote: Now, an immediate response may be to argue with me or tell me how I'm wrong, or whatever, but please don't. Continue the thread as you were all doing. My contributions further are irrelevant as I don't feel anyone actually understood what I was saying in the first place because people kept trying to cookie cutter what I said into what everyone has been discussing in so many other threads rather than take it the next step. And that's okay. I was trying to address something much deeper than the standard conversations we had here, and I failed. I don't want to argue with you at all, only to understand what you were trying to communicate to us. But as it's "much deeper than the standard conversations here", thanks for sharing your last word on the subject in such a condescending manner! [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image] - pixel Collared to Majik

thetammyjo -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 5:51:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn I apologize, but I will discontinue contributing to the thread from hereon, mainly because the back and forth that has gone on has actually derailed the original intention of this thread into commentaries that are part of the fill in the blank commentaries that come from other threads, like "I do things my way, and therefore I don't play games" which actually is feeding into the problem I was talking about before. For my last comment on this thread (forgetting about 90 percent of what has been printed in this thread), the point is that over the last decade, relationships in bdsm seem to have turned into D/s-lite because instead of the environment AFTER the negotiation, relationships still tend to be watered down with "I don't have to put my foot down because if he doesn't want to serve me, then I don't want him". It's like so many new guard relationships are sprinkled with this new attitude that I feel like I traveled forward in a time machine and see something different than things used to be. I'm sorry you don't think this discussion has been useful. I think several good ideas have been shared as well as differences of philosophy. I've been active in the public community for 17 years now so I can remember that "more than a decade ago" time. I'm sure we did not run in the same circles -- I've always been a munch and support/educational organizational person starting in NYC then expanding beyond that. I actually found more serious people in the "scene" now than I did then and there. Sure I've also found more players but I think that's a function of "mass media" about BDSM and more folks seeing it as a way to spice things up or make a buck. I'm sure, sarbonn, that you are correct in what you see and experience in those circles that you in at this time. I'm sure it has changed. Maybe I don't see it because I haven't left the public community completely so the changes weren't sudden to me.

thetammyjo -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 6:01:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha But to acknowledge what he really wants is a woman that backs up her authority with a whip, with a cage, with a smile in her sadistic words, with an erotic rush from enforcement, with a playful desire to see him jump through hoops -- well, the more you start defining that, the more you sound like you are ordering off a menu and it does not jive with the image of the service submissive. You know, buying into the BS that saying what you want during initial communcation and during negotiation is undermining one's ability to find and succeed in a Ds relationship. Buying into the BS that the slave/sub can't communicate what they need just makes it worse because then even after the best negotiation there is no realistic room for the normal changes human beings go through -- again a set up for failure. Buying into the BS only promotes the BS. Someone who does not understand the difference between communication and "ordering off the menu" is someone whom I would consider not yet ready for a Ds relationship longer than a few hours of fun. I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a bitch but I want people to have successful Ds relationships and when I see the same issues over and over it starts to piss me off because it feels like everyone wants it to be perfect but isn't willing to do the work to even make it good. I know there are new people to the group all the time so these things will come up but when people I've seen since I joined keep repeating their same problems or their same unsuccessful approaches it wears at me. I am pointing my finger at any one in particular here -- just went off on a rant because it makes me sad and pissed that someone out there might think that communicating needs makes one less than a good submissive.

DiannaVesta -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 6:08:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyIce I agree with Dianna, my walls are high because the right submissive will jump over them. My initial expectations and standards are high, to weed out the flakes and those that are not willing to work to get me. I agree with the initial training period to keep those that are not serious away. Great post Dianna. Thank you. Here is a really good recent example: This guy calls me on my PAID talk line for an interview. During the interview he tells me that he has tried everything else and ready to take the next step. That is has really thought about it (yeah right! Lol) and is ready to become my property and serve me at any capacity I see fit. So I tell him to join Sex Slave Academy and support my work. Normally I hear, “I’m not into financial domination.’ And various other comments about me not being REAL- fuck them. That’s a requirement. Anyhow, he does and so far he is following the rules. He registers and he is given an assignment. He completes this and I give him my Yahoo ID which he uses OFTEN to say hello, chat, etc. To make a long story short there is a point where I feel he is sincere and I invest more time. We talk on the phone first at a LOW reduced rate and also on my own free time. He is still within the 30 day period, mind you. Things seem to be progressing along. I figure he still has a few months to go and since he lives in Northern VA he can easily drive down to visit and we’ll continue on. I’m having high hopes and my heart tells me THIS ONE is different. Now this is going to make you laugh at how stupid a man with a hard on really is. No doubt he is reeling with excitement. He send an email to my Yahoo account (he was instructed to email me at my personal femsupreme account) probably showed up in his yahoo email since I am on his messenger. He writes this “oh so long” letter about how he is a REAL slave and has even been trained by world famous Goddess Dianna Vesta.” It goes on and on and even has a paragraph included from a personal email I sent him. The stupid ass sent ME the email that was intended for another mistress. I’m not kidding. I confronted him and he made all kinds of lame excuses. I mean he was caught and his stupid wormy ass still tried to get out of it. Now not only am I disappointed, angry and feeling taken advantage of, I am a little hurt because I did invest some emotion and felt that he was sincere. What made it easier was that he paid for my time, at least for the most part and it had only been 30 days. If you read my profile it tells you straight out what I expect and that you will pay for a phone call. I STILL get tons of email, “I want to be your slave.” And I always send the link to talk to me. Most forget it and some reply back with that “I’m not sincere” shit and if I was a REAL mistress I would want a real slave. Sarbonn I do know where you are coming from and I also have a pretty deceit idea about your situation since we have chatted and been in contact over the years. What I am about to tell you I’ve told you before. Set your sites and then begin living the dream. If being the property of a dominant Goddess is your goal then give it 150%. Not by just showing up but with your actions. Don’t get side tracked by little challenges or feel that what you’re offering isn’t enough. Always strive to stand out and be important in her life. Guys listen carefully… it won’t fall in your lap and any seasoned lifestyle Domina is not going to chase after no matter how good you look, how much money you have or don’t have and a bunch of rhetoric. Don’t contact her unless you’re really ready to go the distance and prove that you really are worthy to be her property. Don’t put your tail between your legs running away whining because she didn’t respond the way YOU wanted her to. Keep striving to be important in her world. A unselfish act of devotion pulls more weight then anything I know. Its gold to us.

realtuffdom -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 7:28:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo I'm sorry you don't think this discussion has been useful. I think several good ideas have been shared as well as differences of philosophy. I didn't say the discussion hasn't been useful. It's just not useful to me. Many people are still discussing things back and forth and that's great. They've moved way beyond what I was discussing and went in a different direction, so I stated I would bow out of the conversation because I don't believe the majority actually understood what I was saying. That's fine. The conversation can whatever direction it wants to go, but there are still people addressing me, as if expecting me to answer, and the conversation is no longer about anything I was actually discussing, so I have no opinion further on the thread in the direction it took.

realtuffdom -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 7:31:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pixelslave I don't want to argue with you at all, only to understand what you were trying to communicate to us. But as it's "much deeper than the standard conversations here", thanks for sharing your last word on the subject in such a condescending manner! [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m23.gif[/image] Please stop taking things personally and as if they're directed with negativity. I was trying to create a thread that went beyond normal conversations. It got bogged down in conversations we hear every day. That's not condescending; it's just a realization. It's not even a bad one. Threads do that. It doesn't mean the people are stupid or anything of that nature. Nor does it indicate I think so. I wouldn't be communicating on a daily basis with so many people on these boards if I didn't find them to be interesting, intelligent and worthy of devoting time. So please stop the desire to "see" hostility where there's none intended, or even implied. There's enough of that on the boards already without having to deconstruct and try to find it in between the words.

realtuffdom -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 7:33:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: realtuffdom quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo I'm sorry you don't think this discussion has been useful. I think several good ideas have been shared as well as differences of philosophy. Doh, the system overrode with my joke dom account from yesterday. This was me who posted this. I didn't say the discussion hasn't been useful. It's just not useful to me. Many people are still discussing things back and forth and that's great. They've moved way beyond what I was discussing and went in a different direction, so I stated I would bow out of the conversation because I don't believe the majority actually understood what I was saying. That's fine. The conversation can whatever direction it wants to go, but there are still people addressing me, as if expecting me to answer, and the conversation is no longer about anything I was actually discussing, so I have no opinion further on the thread in the direction it took.

littlesarbonn -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 7:34:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: realtuffdom quote: ORIGINAL: realtuffdom quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo I'm sorry you don't think this discussion has been useful. I think several good ideas have been shared as well as differences of philosophy. Doh, the system overrode with my joke dom account from yesterday. This was me who posted this. I didn't say the discussion hasn't been useful. It's just not useful to me. Many people are still discussing things back and forth and that's great. They've moved way beyond what I was discussing and went in a different direction, so I stated I would bow out of the conversation because I don't believe the majority actually understood what I was saying. That's fine. The conversation can whatever direction it wants to go, but there are still people addressing me, as if expecting me to answer, and the conversation is no longer about anything I was actually discussing, so I have no opinion further on the thread in the direction it took. Bah, it overrode my override. Okay, this is REALLY me. The realtuffdom account was a joke account I created yesterday (there's a thread in the bdsm discussion thread about it). I didn't realize it would overtake my regular account on the message boards when I switched back.

littlesarbonn -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 7:45:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta Sarbonn I do know where you are coming from and I also have a pretty deceit idea about your situation since we have chatted and been in contact over the years. What I am about to tell you I’ve told you before. Set your sites and then begin living the dream. If being the property of a dominant Goddess is your goal then give it 150%. Not by just showing up but with your actions. Don’t get side tracked by little challenges or feel that what you’re offering isn’t enough. Always strive to stand out and be important in her life. I appreciate the advice, as always. This thread I posted wasn't really about me or my desire to find what I'm seeking. It was more about a trend I've noticed over the last few years in the people with whom I have come in contact. There's a different energy today in bdsm relationships that took me awhile to discover, and that's what this whole thread was about. It's not about "my way or the highway" but about the state of the entire outlook of domination and how it seems to have moved as a huge entity together in an entire paradigm shift so that it appears (to someone who left and then came back) as if it became something completely different BUT the people living it today have been living through the changes, so they don't even realize anything has changed and will argue nothing has. That's why my difficulty with this thread has been so hard to verbalize because I don't think people even realize anything may have changed because they have either evolved with it, or they came at a time when the paradigm shift already happened. It's philosophically like trying to determine if the universe is truly expanding while living on the surface of the universe one is claiming is expanding. It seems pretty stable to the naked observer (although why scientists are wandering around naked is a completely different problem).

AAkasha -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 10:29:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha But to acknowledge what he really wants is a woman that backs up her authority with a whip, with a cage, with a smile in her sadistic words, with an erotic rush from enforcement, with a playful desire to see him jump through hoops -- well, the more you start defining that, the more you sound like you are ordering off a menu and it does not jive with the image of the service submissive. You know, buying into the BS that saying what you want during initial communcation and during negotiation is undermining one's ability to find and succeed in a Ds relationship. Buying into the BS that the slave/sub can't communicate what they need just makes it worse because then even after the best negotiation there is no realistic room for the normal changes human beings go through -- again a set up for failure. Buying into the BS only promotes the BS. Someone who does not understand the difference between communication and "ordering off the menu" is someone whom I would consider not yet ready for a Ds relationship longer than a few hours of fun. I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a bitch but I want people to have successful Ds relationships and when I see the same issues over and over it starts to piss me off because it feels like everyone wants it to be perfect but isn't willing to do the work to even make it good. I know there are new people to the group all the time so these things will come up but when people I've seen since I joined keep repeating their same problems or their same unsuccessful approaches it wears at me. I am pointing my finger at any one in particular here -- just went off on a rant because it makes me sad and pissed that someone out there might think that communicating needs makes one less than a good submissive. You are not sounding like a bitch. I agree with you. I was pointing out that nowadays a submissive has a hard time stating his expectations/needs without being pointed to the "do me" submissive line and ordered out of the "sincere submissive" line. A couple of weeks ago I posted a thread about "submissive's lib" and it caused a bit of a flurry. I now have a good example of the way the pendulum has swung too far the other way for femdoms; I think there IS such a thing as a submissive natured man who also has a sense/idea/ideal/desire for the context of his relationship, and the more he can verbalize it, the more he is unfairly put into the "bottom" category. It has nothing to do with bottoming, because he would be categorically unhappy if he was given the proper "number" of beatings and bondage sessiosn per week with a skilled dominatrix; he's seeking a flavor of relationship and a style of power exchange. It always goes back to the same point though. The more clearly you can define what it is you seek, the more likely you are to find it. Be clear about your expectations. Akasha

DiannaVesta -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 12:57:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha It always goes back to the same point though. The more clearly you can define what it is you seek, the more likely you are to find it. Be clear about your expectations. Akasha I appreciate this more then I do anything else. I am much more receptive to an honest and cerebral dialogue then I am to someone “in role” try to get me to top them. The one primary male I have right now is very straight forward, says whats on his mind without any disrespect. This is what I love about him the most.

asubmissiveheart -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/17/2007 7:00:08 PM)
I understand how you feel Dianna. There is so much more to selecting a partner than what meets the eye.

MisPandora -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/18/2007 5:29:57 AM)
You seem to have hit the nail on the head in terms of what I've observed as well. I never used to have to put in an ad or an online listing, "Do it my way or be gone" because people who took the time to approach invested that time wisely and were serious about the approach. They weren't typing it with one hand. Has it affected me? Sure has. I don't even raise my level of dominance to meet someone until I'm damn good and sure they're for real and we're on a path to meeting face to face, and sometimes not until that happens. And sometimes, it takes me longer than after we've met (for those I meet at an event, munch, etc.) I don't trust people who feel the need to tell me of their submission, as I have learned that acts of demonstration speak far louder than their words could possibly express. I take everything said to me with a grain of salt, and a pound of investigation. Does my unwillingness to dom them immediately lose some interest? I'm sure, but if they were that easily dissuaded by my wanting to be sure of them, do they have what it takes to be my supplicant? Not likely. If and when I get them past that point of engaging in a power exchange relationship with them, that's when the "do it or leave" philosophy takes a back burner and the "do it or pay the consequences" firmness sets in. There are dealbreakers that will still force me to pull out the "do that again and you're gone" card, but those are few and far between.

pixelslave -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/18/2007 11:04:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MisPandora You seem to have hit the nail on the head in terms of what I've observed as well. I never used to have to put in an ad or an online listing, "Do it my way or be gone" because people who took the time to approach invested that time wisely and were serious about the approach. They weren't typing it with one hand. Has it affected me? Sure has. I don't even raise my level of dominance to meet someone until I'm damn good and sure they're for real and we're on a path to meeting face to face, and sometimes not until that happens. And sometimes, it takes me longer than after we've met (for those I meet at an event, munch, etc.) I don't trust people who feel the need to tell me of their submission, as I have learned that acts of demonstration speak far louder than their words could possibly express. I take everything said to me with a grain of salt, and a pound of investigation. This seems to me to be symptomatic of our society in general, not necessarily of this lifestyle. People are often afraid to reveal who they really are as genuine people and attempt to put on airs of some sort in order try and "fit-in" with what they think others expect of them. I saw a lot of this in the community in which I used to live, where people appeared more concerned with the clothes one wore and how well manicured their lawn was than the substance within their neighbors. [>:] quote: Does my unwillingness to dom them immediately lose some interest? I'm sure, but if they were that easily dissuaded by my wanting to be sure of them, do they have what it takes to be my supplicant? Not likely. If and when I get them past that point of engaging in a power exchange relationship with them, that's when the "do it or leave" philosophy takes a back burner and the "do it or pay the consequences" firmness sets in. There are dealbreakers that will still force me to pull out the "do that again and you're gone" card, but those are few and far between. Again, isn't this also about not connecting with others as human beings who are real people and developing relationships on that level first before establishing a power exchange? We live in a society where most things are designed to be disposable. Corporations treat their employees in that manner. It permeates the way many people think today in our society: "Try some and if you don't like the first sip, you can throw the whole can away!" It's part of the expectation that we can all find instant gratification. It seems to me that it started with drugs and casual sex, then increasingly moved into other aspects of our culture. most notably relationships and the breakdown of families/long-term relationships. It's too easy to "dispose" of something we have a problem with, particularly people we're involved in a relationship with, than to make a commitment to work out the problems we have with them. I think that's rather sad, but true. [:o] - pixel Collared to Magik

DiannaVesta -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/18/2007 2:36:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MisPandora ...... raise my level of dominance When I read this I got goose bumps because few people articulate it that way or understand this. This is the main reason I’m turned off by groveling gestures from people I don’t even know. I don’t need a display of submission. If we connect and communicate well we can explore compatibility. THEN I will slowly begin to raise my level of dominance and shift my power according to the dynamic of the relationship. This is why I can’t give you a list of what I’m into. It all begins with an understanding that I am a naturally dominant woman that believes in feminine priorities. That’s the door you walk through. Once inside we decorate the rooms together. Thank you for that. I think that topic along deserves a thread.

donaldwllm -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/18/2007 5:21:29 PM)
At Last my love has come along My Lonely days are over And life is like a song At Last the skies above are blue And my heart was wrapped in clover The night I looked at you [:)] I found a dream that I could speak to A dream that I can call my own I found a thrill to press my cheek to A thrill that I've never known You smiled, and then the spell was cast And here we are in heaven For you are mine at last.[:D]

interestingtimes -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/23/2007 3:53:21 AM)
Im still trying to find my way around, the posts oh this threas are thoughfull and thought provoking..im impressed more sense in the forums than on chat.....thanks ladypax...

interestingtimes -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/23/2007 4:01:19 AM)
well im still getting my head around dynamics of D/s, as for dispossable society, I agree and it's the same in the dating world as well...no courtship as such anymore its date every day if you can and treat dates with less respect than your cat or dog

SlaveSubtoserve -> RE: The thing I keep missing (not a complaint, but an observation) (7/25/2007 10:12:09 AM)
....extremely interesting and valuable post.

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875