Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (Full Version)

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anthrosub -> Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/21/2005 6:49:46 PM)

The following was posted as a reply elsewhere but sort of got lost in the shuffle. This is most of the original post. Any thoughts?

Yesterday I was thinking about the profiles here and a thread about "want versus need" and had a thought. People who have a genuine Dominant or submissive personality are probably equal in terms of numbers within the community. Think about it...someone who's Dominant has this as part of their identity and has a true "need" to express themselves accordingly. The same applies to those who are submissive.

On the other hand, I bet the population of people who simply "want" this identity are much higher in number. The reasons are many. The "want" category includes, players, the curious, people who simply enjoy kinky sex, newbies just discovering themselves but not sure what it means yet, people seeking thrills outside their vanilla relationship, people who think this lifestyle can net them a partner easier than through vanilla channels, and those (not all) who practice this as a business. I'm sure there are other categories but I think this makes my point.

People who have a heartfelt need to express/live their orientation (and that's what it's really all about for them) are probably the low minority. I think this would be more likely to come through in their profile, too because they take it seriously and are not here to play games at all. This would also explain why some people who've been in the lifestyle long before the Internet arrived have observed how the Internet is watering down the community. There's just too many people out there getting involved for reasons that come under the "want" categories to make it easy to find each other in short order.

anthrosub



Kinkypupper -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/21/2005 8:22:20 PM)

VERY true..

Yet there are also a lot of more subtle differences and reasons for "want' and "need"

Yes there is a "Need" from a true Dom type for a compatable "partner" to make them complete.
Yes there is a "Want" from a wanna be who justwants a quick "fuck and run"

And yet a "ad" needs to be "complete" to what one "needs" and wants. In both catagorys.

I need a partner i may "want" her to be 135lbs or less and well pierced and 1/2 a doz. other 'wants".
What I "need" is a partner all else is negotiable to one extent or another. But if I settle for a lot less then what I "want" then am I not doing myself a dis-service. So I need to make the "ad" as complete as possable That may mean that the person I am truely seeking will pass it by. Not giving it a 2nd glance. But it also will keep me from making a mistake in settling for less.




anthrosub -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/21/2005 8:55:43 PM)

Well said. Your words reminded me of something I put together back in my late teens...

"If we take care in getting what we need, we will have what we truely want."

Not exactly airtight but close (maybe).

anthrosub



LadyAngelika -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/22/2005 4:56:43 AM)

anthro,

While I understand the distinction you are trying to make, and I do see some truth to it, I advise against such a division. The reason is that some of us fall in between the two.

I'd like to think I'm not dependant on anything besides food, water, shelter & sleep. And even that last one I try to disprove from time to time! I don't want my desires controlling me. I want to be in control of them. Call me a control nut ;)

That said, I have a hard time saying that I need to do wiitwd. I have a hard time saying that I need sex. Because I know I could survive without. Do I want to survive without? No way. Being an atheist, I see no reasons to sacrifice or suppress anything unless I'm doing it for me so there is no need to not have what I want.

Now getting back to your proposal... I see it as dangerous as it is one more step towards seperating the true from the false here, and to be honest, it's a debate that really, really, ticks me off. We are all here, regarless of whether we want or need. If you are looking for only those that need, then it's a matter of discussing with people to find common ground.

Also, wanting and needing are perceptions. Someone might say that they need and I might say that I want, but I just might have a better idea of what I want then they do of what they need, therefore more likely to have greater success in a long term relationship involving wiitwd.

- LA



happypervert -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/22/2005 6:33:13 AM)

quote:


People who have a heartfelt need to express/live their orientation (and that's what it's really all about for them) are probably the low minority. I think this would be more likely to come through in their profile, too because they take it seriously and are not here to play games at all.

I see a couple of problems with your argument. First, you are apparently painting the "want" category as phonies yet the curious and newbies are included there. Who is to say that they don't discover that this is something the need in their lives.

Next, there are plenty of phonies who can paint themselves as serious; a caricture of this is the "I am a true master with 20 years experience seeking a true slave to kneel at my feet and obey my every command". Tone this down a bit, and you'll get the profile of someone who appears to be one of the serious minority.

So I really don't think you can separate the wants from needs simply by reading their profiles. Furthermore, since I've seen you moan about the difficulty in finding a partner, I wouldn't recommend limiting the pool you fish in further by automatically eliminating from consideration those folks who only appear to only want it.

But I say that because I also find it difficult to find someone that I like enough for a long term relationship, so I expand the pool of choices by making wiitwd optional. Lump me under the "want" category if you like.



anthrosub -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/22/2005 3:21:31 PM)

Lady Angelika,
Thank you for your feedback. I agree with all your points. As is usually the case, what I wrote was a "shot" at trying to say something and also as usual...it never really hits the bullseye; hence we can now discuss the finer points. [:)] I think I was inwardly focusing more on the personality aspect than the profile when I wrote the post.

As Happypervert pointed out, anyone can fake a profile and that's academic to me, so we can move on to the other points. I've always been fascinated by the "want vs. need" equation. Our wants and needs are mixed and exist at different layers of our personality and of course, everyone's mix is different. This is essentially what I think you are saying.

What I've observed is when you drill down to the core of who a person is, the wants loose their importance. An extreme example of this would be someone lost in the wilderness who's accustomed to luxury. So, to revisit what I initially wrote, what I was trying to say is if it's really important to a person (meaning they have a genuine need to express their orientation), their profile is more likely to reflect this (emphasis on "likely").

As far as my own quest it concerned, I've backed way off from any expectations to the point of almost accepting it's not going to happen (at least online anyway). No more moans from this guy. This post was intended for discussion and that's all. You and I and many others here have been around long enough to know what the boards have to realistically offer. For the rest, they still have their journey ahead of them (not that ours is over). [;)]

anthrosub



LadyAngelika -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/22/2005 3:28:48 PM)

quote:

So, to revisit what I initially wrote, what I was trying to say is if it's really important to a person (meaning they have a genuine need to express their orientation), their profile is more likely to reflect this (emphasis on "likely").


To this I would add that I have a genuine desire to express my orientation. I do not however have a need. If I don't engage in wiitwd, I'm not going to die. I will probably be unhappy, but I won't die.

- LA



AAkasha -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/22/2005 3:41:55 PM)

I think boiling it down to "need" vs. "want" kind of muddies things up a lot, because different people have different views regarding what a need and a want are.

Taking a stab, and avoiding words like "true" or "real" or anything of the sort -- could you say that all people searching for a bdsm element in their life are possibly in two (broad) categories:

1. They had a desire at some point, often very early in childhood (but sometimes for others it's like a "click" later in life) to engage in these activities, often before they knew what BDSM was. Some struggled with it, some tried to hide it, some thought it was "weird" or "sick," some explored it and embraced it. Regardless, they wound up being a BDSM enthusiast of one flavor or another.

2. Because it is the nature of their personality to experiment, or because a partner introduced them to it and they found it "fun," or because the bdsm lifestyle offered them something appealing (sex, a new partner, adventure, a group, the ability to feel edgy, a change of pace, etc.) they got involved and searched for a partner and/or began having BDSM be a part of (or desired part of) their life on a regular basis.

If I was to compare these categories and try to turn them into "want" vs. "need," it would be obvious that 1. would be a need -- it's sort of in the wiring. But, that does not mean any person could "give it up" if they had to. Many say they could, but would not be happy about it. The second category is more likely to be able to give it up, or will eventually walk away if BDSM does not provide the satisfaction they seek.

Other ways this question has been asked is "Could you leave the bdsm lifestyle if you wanted to?" Sure -- lots of us could. But what I couldn't do is turn off the fantasies in my head about dominance, or stop thinking of dominance while having sex, stop pulling hair, etc. I can't shut that side of me off.

I'd be curious what other people think about the "born" vs. "learned" desires for dominance and submission. Perhaps that's a different way to look at it.

Akasha



anthrosub -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/22/2005 3:54:21 PM)

I would definitely fall into the number one category. I can think of experiences I've had all the way back to the age of 5 that helped shape my own orientation...and I definitely went through many of the struggles you listed there. I would also be able to live without it but never would my mind turn off from thinking about or fantasizing.

anthrosub



happypervert -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/22/2005 7:14:14 PM)

quote:

if it's really important to a person (meaning they have a genuine need to express their orientation), their profile is more likely to reflect this (emphasis on "likely").

ok, I'll buy that. However, it seems to me that more than 90% of folks do such a poor job of expressing themselves that you've got to wade through a lot of crap before you get to the few where you can actually tell the difference.



kisshou -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/23/2005 7:08:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

The following was posted as a reply elsewhere but sort of got lost in the shuffle. This is most of the original post. Any thoughts?
On the other hand, I bet the population of people who simply "want" this identity are much higher in number.
anthrosub


I think most people wanted to be vanilla (normal), like Mr or Mrs Brady. As a child I fantasized about being a whore or being tied up , I tried my hardest to suppress this and to hide it.

If a person is a dominant or submissive they are going to live their orientation irregardless of want or need because that is who they are.

I think there are alot of peole like me who lived what would be deemed 'the lifestyle' but were never part of the community. If they were lucky like me they eventually found a community and realized they were not alone. Even if they participate by observation only.

The internet might be watering it down but it is also opening the flood gates to those who have always thought they were the only one who had these kind of BDSM feelings as part of their nature.



sweetsuzie -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/23/2005 7:26:48 AM)

I think its a little too black and white trying to categorise desires as either 'needs' or 'wants'. Needed for what - to survive, to be comfortable, to be blissfully happy? These are three very different states and would have three very different answers. I prefer to think in terms of which practical and emotional considerations would be fundamental to the relationship and what could / would i be prepared, if everything else was satisfactory, to forego?

Needs and wants are, to me, very akin to hard and soft limits - and, like limits, they will change with time, circumstance and partner.



anthrosub -> RE: Want vs. Need (Profiles and Personality Types) (6/23/2005 2:56:03 PM)

Thanks for your thoughts. To answer your question of "Needed for what..." and the subsequent categories listed, I'm talking about the need to express your identity, which has nothing to do with material needs per se. From a psychological perspective, we all have a very strong need to preserve our identity so "survival" would mean the preservation of such. Having done so, one would enjoy a healthier state of mind I would think, instead of going day to day suppressing it.

On the other hand, there are certainly many out there, right now, who are doing just that (suppressing) or have in the past as kisshou mentions above. I'm not trying to paint a dark picture here though, this is just an exploration of what drives us inwardly as food for thought.

kisshou,
Good point about the Internet being a double-edged sword.

anthrosub



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