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Vendaval -> "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 12:04:13 AM)

"Vista plodding along six months after release"
 
"SEATTLE, Washington (AP) -- Chris Pirillo leaned away from his webcam and pointed to his printer/scanner/fax machine, which stopped scanning and faxing after he installed Microsoft Corp.'s new Windows Vista operating systemd does not work," said Pirillo, in the third minute of a 52-minute video he posted on YouTube.

Nearly six months after it launched, gripes over what doesn't work with Vista continue, eclipsing positive buzz over the program's improved desktop search, graphics and security.

With Vista now shipping on most new computers, it's all but guaranteed to become the world's dominant PC operating system -- eventually. For now, some users are either learning to live with workarounds or sticking with Vista's predecessor, Windows XP.

Pirillo is geekier than the average user. He runs a network of technology blogs called Lockergnome, and was one of several "Windows enthusiasts" Microsoft asked for Vista feedback early on.

Still, Vista tested even Pirillo's savvy. He fixed the hobbled printer and other problems by installing VMware, a program that lets him run XP within Vista. But when his trial copy expired, he decided the solution was too clunky -- and too expensive.

He "upgraded," as he called it, back to XP.

Users' early complaints aren't a threat to Microsoft's dominance in operating systems. The various flavors of Windows run 93 percent of PCs worldwide, according to the research group IDC. Last fiscal year, Windows accounted for about a third of Microsoft's total revenue of $44.3 billion.

Industry analysts say Vista adoption is plodding along as expected, with most consumers and businesses switching over as they replace old hardware with new. IDC analyst Al Gillen said he expects Vista will be installed on the vast majority of computers in about five years, the time it took for XP to reach 84 percent of PCs.

It's too early for industry watchers to know exactly how many people are using Vista. At the same time, it's hard to gauge Vista's success by comparing it to XP, because the PC market has grown tremendously in the last six years.

In early May, Microsoft said it had distributed 40 million copies of Vista, which costs $199 to $399 depending on the version. But it did not specify the number actually sold through to consumers, versus those shipped to computer makers like Hewlett-Packard Co. and Dell Inc.

Analysts noted that as many as 15 million of those copies could represent upgrade coupons given to XP buyers during the holidays, before Vista went on sale.

Microsoft would not say how many of those customers installed the new system, but Forrester Research analyst J.P. Gownder estimated just over 12 million U.S. consumers would have Vista by the end of the year, out of about 235 million PCs in the country.

As for the compatibility problems, 2 million devices -- such as cameras and printers -- now work with Vista, said Dave Wascha, a director in the Windows Client group.

"We are way ahead with Windows Vista right now than where we were when we shipped Windows XP," he said.

Still, it's an uphill battle: Vista interacts differently with programs and peripherals than previous versions of Windows, and some companies have chosen not to spend time and money updating older products. Printer makers, Wascha noted, draw profits from ink cartridges and services, and have little motivation to invest in updating drivers for old hardware.

As a result, many early adopters have made a sport of grumbling about the one device or program they still can't get to work.

And they've ranted about other things, from how hard it is to open Vista's snap-together plastic retail box, to what they see as arbitrary decisions on Microsoft's part to hide common settings and features.

One of the most common annoyances: Microsoft's user account control feature, designed to protect unwitting Web surfers from spyware and viruses that would otherwise install themselves on the hard drive.

Dan Cohen, chief executive officer of Silicon Valley startup Pageflakes, bought a Vista laptop a couple of months ago. After one too many pop-up windows warning of possible threats from the Internet, Cohen switched the control feature off.

Now he gets pop-ups warning him that turning off UAC is dangerous.

"I feel more secure -- and more irritated," he said. When Cohen went to buy his wife a new computer in April, he stuck with XP on a laptop from Lenovo Group Ltd.

Some analysts say Microsoft hasn't put enough energy into marketing Vista's benefits to consumers. But it may also be the case that Vista's biggest benefits are ones that cause average PC users' eyes to glaze over, like improved security.

"Everybody wants there to be a repeat of Windows 98 -- the excitement, the sales volume, the rate of growth and everything else," said Michael Cherry, an analyst for the independent research group Directions on Microsoft.

At the time of Windows 98's launch, broadband access to the Internet was catching fire and consumers were pumped up about getting a faster, cheaper computer.

There's no such compelling reason to buy Vista, said Gownder, the Forrester analyst.

Businesses, like consumers, are in no hurry to upgrade. Before the business version of Vista landed late last year, a Forrester survey of about 1,600 companies found that 31 percent planned to upgrade within a year, and 22 percent more planned to be running it within two years.

Most businesses think those plans now seem too aggressive, said Forrester analyst Benjamin Gray.

While corporate technology departments are looking forward to some of Vista's security features and easier administration tools, there's little reason to switch if more secure PCs end up choking on a critical piece of software.

"They're waiting for Microsoft to bless it with a service pack," said Gray, referring to a major software update that fixes bugs.

The University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, a member of Microsoft's Vista Technical Adoption Program, started evaluating Vista in January 2006. Today, only 300 of the hospital's 30,000 desktop computers run the software.

Karen Malik, associate director of technical services, said the rollout is behind schedule because several key programs still aren't compatible, including patient scheduling software. Malik knows the software vendors will catch up to Vista -- someday. In the meantime, she's not rushing.

"We know eventually we're going to need to move to this operating system," Malik said. "It's not really an option." ""

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/07/16/microsoft.vista.ap/index.html




farglebargle -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 12:20:00 AM)

Microsoft produces another turd. Film at 11.





LadyEllen -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 1:32:21 AM)

What I like about Microsoft - one single schematic which is common to (almost) everyone, making it simple for idiots like me to do most things without requiring a PhD in computer programming.

What I dislike - well, the bandwidth would be jeopardised, but lets just say "marketing policy" to keep it short.

I dont know if anyone else has this little problem from Microsoft? Those little updates to 98 and XP that keep coming through - and once installed, totally cock the system up. According to my geeky PC nerd friend, its no accident that these updates have recently started buggering things up; theyre a "message" to "upgrade" to Vista, which everyone I know says is a piece of shit.

Still, we will all have it eventually, 'cause thats how it works.

E




farglebargle -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 6:57:54 AM)

Speak for yourself. I haven't used a Windows box, myself, since Thanksgiving of 2001!





DomKen -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 7:33:44 AM)

Vista is a mess. Of course XP was a mess prior to SP1 and the same was true of Win98. But compared to Win ME Vista is perfect.

I tell non technical people to never upgrade to a new OS after they buy a box. Unless you absolutely have to pick up a new computer right now simply wait until the first service pack comes out for Vista, this winter I bet, before buying a computer with it.




farglebargle -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 7:38:39 AM)

I tell non-technical people that they don't need a computer at all!

Typewriters and Ledger Pads and Index Cards.....





DomKen -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 12:33:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I tell non-technical people that they don't need a computer at all!

Typewriters and Ledger Pads and Index Cards.....



We seem to have different defintions of non technical. There are a lot of people out there who want to be able to do word processing or simply browse the web and send email but have no desire or interest in learning the intricacies of Linux.




farglebargle -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 12:37:19 PM)

I dispute the phrase "intricacies of Linux". You ever use a TiVo? How hard was it to learn? That's linux, running the TiVo application.

Linux running Firefox, Linux running Google Mail. Linux running OpenOffice. Hmmm... Looks like people don't need to learn the BULLSHIT of Windows *OR* pay the $300.00 Microsoft Tax. You *DID* pay your Microsoft Tax?





Sinergy -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 12:39:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I tell non-technical people that they don't need a computer at all!

Typewriters and Ledger Pads and Index Cards.....




I tried that but the Moderators kept getting pissed because of the interface issues with Collarme.

Sinergy




cyberdude611 -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 12:58:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I dispute the phrase "intricacies of Linux". You ever use a TiVo? How hard was it to learn? That's linux, running the TiVo application.

Linux running Firefox, Linux running Google Mail. Linux running OpenOffice. Hmmm... Looks like people don't need to learn the BULLSHIT of Windows *OR* pay the $300.00 Microsoft Tax. You *DID* pay your Microsoft Tax?



Using Linux is not quite as hard as figuring out how to install it. Unless you are computer savvy, you are probably going to screw up your computer.

Windows on the other hand is like autopilot. You pop the CD in, answer a few questions and you rarely have problems installing unless one of your components are not supported or is dead.




DomKen -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 1:00:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I dispute the phrase "intricacies of Linux". You ever use a TiVo? How hard was it to learn? That's linux, running the TiVo application.

Linux running Firefox, Linux running Google Mail. Linux running OpenOffice. Hmmm... Looks like people don't need to learn the BULLSHIT of Windows *OR* pay the $300.00 Microsoft Tax. You *DID* pay your Microsoft Tax?

TiVo is running Linux as an embedded OS with no easy way or need for the average user to interact with the OS directly.

Setting up Linux is usually the issue. I'm going to assume that the partitions are set up by somebody besides the non tech guy since their is no way in hell he's going to not fuck that up. Setting up users isn't too bad but file permissions tend to throw people for a loop and using nearly any app is going to run into that intricacy of Linux.

Now lets compare the issue with a friend's home network if it was under Linux rather than Windows xp. Rather than my quick walkthrough of how to share directories on the desktop that serves as the file server, right click directory to share select properties the sharing tab, I have to come over to his house and set up Samba since it is quite a bit more complicated than that. Now what to do about his HP digital cam? I'm sure there is some GNU app out there that will work as well as what came on the HP disk but somebody is going to need to research what it is and what needs to be done to make it work. Then comes a biggie, he's playing network games on this network, Age of Empires, WarCraft etc., with his son. Now I'm pretty sure I can get some emulator that will let him still do that but once again it would require research and at the least he's going to need to learn and then teach his son a new step in starting their games.

Now this compares to what I did to get him up and running quite unfavorably. Installing the wireless router on the cable modem and setting up the security so casual sniffers wouldnt penetrate the network. A quick demo on how to share directories over the phone as I had forgotten to cover that in person.




farglebargle -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 4:27:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I dispute the phrase "intricacies of Linux". You ever use a TiVo? How hard was it to learn? That's linux, running the TiVo application.

Linux running Firefox, Linux running Google Mail. Linux running OpenOffice. Hmmm... Looks like people don't need to learn the BULLSHIT of Windows *OR* pay the $300.00 Microsoft Tax. You *DID* pay your Microsoft Tax?



Using Linux is not quite as hard as figuring out how to install it. Unless you are computer savvy, you are probably going to screw up your computer.

Windows on the other hand is like autopilot. You pop the CD in, answer a few questions and you rarely have problems installing unless one of your components are not supported or is dead.



That's funny, because installing Ubuntu or Fedora ( OR Redhat Enterprise 5 ) works like this:

BOOT the live O/S installer or Install CD/DVD.
ANSWER a few questions.

and unless one of your components isn't supported or dead you rarely have problems installing.





farglebargle -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 4:39:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I dispute the phrase "intricacies of Linux". You ever use a TiVo? How hard was it to learn? That's linux, running the TiVo application.

Linux running Firefox, Linux running Google Mail. Linux running OpenOffice. Hmmm... Looks like people don't need to learn the BULLSHIT of Windows *OR* pay the $300.00 Microsoft Tax. You *DID* pay your Microsoft Tax?

TiVo is running Linux as an embedded OS with no easy way or need for the average user to interact with the OS directly.

Setting up Linux is usually the issue. I'm going to assume that the partitions are set up by somebody besides the non tech guy since their is no way in hell he's going to not fuck that up.


The installer does it.

quote:


Setting up users isn't too bad but file permissions tend to throw people for a loop and using nearly any app is going to run into that intricacy of Linux.


It'll ask for the root password whenever it's necessary.

quote:


Now lets compare the issue with a friend's home network if it was under Linux rather than Windows xp. Rather than my quick walkthrough of how to share directories on the desktop that serves as the file server, right click directory to share select properties the sharing tab, I have to come over to his house and set up Samba since it is quite a bit more complicated than that.


It *is* of course more detailed than "Right Click Directory"... You *did* have to either setup an AD or PDC and/or Workgroup and properly configure the Win XP box to be IN the same Windows Network. ( Or is everything called "WORKGROUP"? )



quote:


Now what to do about his HP digital cam?


You plug it in? Cameras known to work with this method over USB include the following:

* Casio Exilim, GV-10, QV-R40
* Fuji FinePix 1400Zoom, A205
* HP PHotoSmart 812
* Minolta DiMAGE 300
* Nikon Coolpix 775, 990, 995, 2000, 3100, 5700
* Olympus C-150, MJU line
* Pentax Optio 33L
* PocketCam 3Mega
* Sony DSC-P30, P32 & P72
* Vivitar ViviCam 3615

quote:


I'm sure there is some GNU app out there that will work as well as what came on the HP disk but somebody is going to need to research what it is and what needs to be done to make it work.


Actually, you don't even need the HP driver, as long as they don't get funky and break USB.

quote:


Then comes a biggie, he's playing network games on this network, Age of Empires, WarCraft etc., with his son. Now I'm pretty sure I can get some emulator that will let him still do that but once again it would require research and at the least he's going to need to learn and then teach his son a new step in starting their games.


Why bother. Games?? Buy a freaking console.

quote:


Now this compares to what I did to get him up and running quite unfavorably. Installing the wireless router on the cable modem and setting up the security so casual sniffers wouldnt penetrate the network. A quick demo on how to share directories over the phone as I had forgotten to cover that in person.


What the hell does Windows have to do with a wireless access point? You aim a web-browser at it and login.





SadisticStreak -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 4:43:51 PM)

I'm not going to suggest that Microsoft hasn't made mistakes, but let's face it - the device drivers are the responsibility of the hardware manufacturers. When you buy a new printer, it comes with drivers. If you have an older printer, it's up to the printer manufacturer to provide a new driver. Some did. Some didn't.

Apple isn't perfect either.




farglebargle -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 4:58:59 PM)

Hey, I notice you didn't POSITIVELY ANSWER my comment about "Everyone using Windows and Office has paid MSFT their $300 tax?", right?





PlayfulOne -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 5:20:12 PM)

Most of the problems are not with Vista, the complaints are about devices not working.  A lot of companies seemed to sit on their thimbs and then said "oh wait, we needed to update drivers".

Vista is a resource hog but if you turn off the aero stuff it calms down.

As far linux, I would be out of work tomorrow if I tried.  A lawn mower would  do me as much good.  Nothing I need to make money with runs on Linux and is not slated to anytime in the near or even distant future.

K







farglebargle -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 5:23:23 PM)

Sorry to hear that your application vendors totally missed out on the invention of the Internet and Web Browsers, because for the past 5 years, that's where their software development efforts should have been focused.





PlayfulOne -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 5:46:06 PM)

Wow,  I am glad your the brightest. 

You don't even know what the applications are, but you have an answer.  Your a funny guy,  even if misguided and off based.

K




farglebargle -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 7:22:38 PM)

Pretty much. The idea of running applications locally is SO 1996!

The current model is point web browser at https://crm.example.com and get to work. That way, when the S/W vendor has an update, it can go live without ANY distribution costs or delays. All the transactional data can be summarized in a data-warehouse for decision support, etc.

( Of course, for audio production, graphic design and layout, they make Macs, but we're discussing the $250 MSFT Vista Business )

Add to that $410 bucks for Office 2007 Pro, and you're what? $660 into MSFT Tax? )

Nice racket they have... Inferior product for 660 bucks a seat.









Lothlauren -> RE: "Vista plodding along 6 months after release" (7/17/2007 7:35:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Hey, I notice you didn't POSITIVELY ANSWER my comment about "Everyone using Windows and Office has paid MSFT their $300 tax?", right?




Hey farglebargle.... I unfortunately have payed my ms tax... good thing is I have my HP with the fedora system on it and unsurprisingly its my most reliable box.... go figure eh




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