Revival in Europe?

Revival in Europe? (Full Version)

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Level -> Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 5:22:58 AM)
AS EVERY actor knows, it is easy to be typecast. The role assigned to Europe for the past decade has been that of sclerotic under-achiever: a slow-growing, work-shy and ageing continent that is destined to be left behind by the United States, China and India. Unnoticed by the audience, Europe, under new political leadership first in Germany and Italy and now in France and Britain, has changed the plot. Since the end of 2006 euro-area GDP has outpaced America's: in 2007, it should grow by 2.7%, ahead of both America and Japan. The euro is at new highs against the dollar and the yen. Unemployment has fallen to 7%, the lowest since the euro started life in 1999. The transformation has been most remarkable in Germany, the biggest European economy, once tarred as “the sick man of Europe”. From 1995 to 2005 German GDP grew at an average of only 1.4% a year. But in the first quarter of 2007 it expanded more than twice as fast, despite a large rise in value-added tax. The 2004 reforms in labour markets and welfare made by the previous government under Gerhard Schröder are bearing fruit. On international definitions, unemployment is down to 6.4%, not much above the level in Britain. German business is doing spectacularly well: the country is again the world's biggest exporter, profits are at a record, competitiveness has improved sharply (see article). http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=9475796&fsrc=nwlbtwfree

meatcleaver -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 8:02:52 AM)
Well at least we Europeans seem to be doing something right and we still have universal healthcare, relatively good social provision and more holidays than everyone else. Not bad for a continent full of the work shy. I've just been looking into buying a studio appartment ten minutes from the centre of Berlin for $205,000. Damn cheap.

Estring -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 9:44:51 AM)
Lol. You guys crack me up.

caitlyn -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 9:56:45 AM)
You know Meatcleaver ... if an American had said that about their home, you would have accused them of being flag waving patriots. [;)][8\|][;)]

popeye1250 -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 10:24:35 AM)
Funny, I was reading about the Czeck Republic, Hungary and other Eastern European countries and real estate there just last night. The guide said that; "it could take weeks to get one simple thing done here so "patience" is the operative word." "NO-ONE is "in a hurry" in Hungary or the Czeck Republic!" Also; "European countries peoples (especially Eastern European Countries!) are more focused on* holidays* and time off activities and not on business." (Nice!) "If you order something in a store it may take weeks or months to get it!" Or, you may never get it." "Or, they may only have one item in the store and nothing in stock." Or, they may sell one item for a week and then never sell it again." "You may sign a contract with a builder and then never see him again so no :money up front." "Be prepared for extra fees that are added on (after) you sign a contract." Fucking AFTER!!! "No-one "trusts" other people in business here." "Doing business here is nothing like doing business in W. European countries or the U.S. or Australia." (NO SHIT?) "Your lawyer must go to your bank to have power, water turned on." (WTF?) "There could be delays!" "Bribery is an accepted though not "official" practice and is a "holdover" from the days of the Soviet Union's control in Eastern Europe." Oh, and here's a nice one; "The home you're buying may have outstanding debts placed against it by creditors of former owner(s) which you would be responsable for." So, some guy didn't pay his water bill in 1988 so "YOU" have to pay it? Oh yeah! Europe's a real economic powerhouse! Plenty of "imports" too like all those hookers from Eastern Europe. You want to do business over there, good fuckin LUCK to you! Some more. I saw pictures of a "new" apartment in Budapest. In the bathroom the toilet was a porcilin bowl like ours only no toilet seat! You sit on the cold porcilin bowl! And the "new kitchen" looked like an ad in the 1950's. And it looked like the place was ALL of 650 sq. ft. and they wanted 117,000 Euros for it! Good FUCKIN LUCK to them too! lol I wouldn't pay anymore that $20k U.S. I can just imagine what the heating system is like in winter. "Hot vater?" Vhat ees dis, "hot (w)ater?" "You have in America???" Eastern Europeans are immigrating WEST for a reason. You don't see a lot of immigration East, do you?

luckydog1 -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 10:48:48 AM)
More from the same article..... "Some Europeans may be tempted to conclude that their economic problems are behind them, their structural faults have been put right—and there is no need for more painful reforms. The turn of the cycle Such a conclusion would be wrong on pretty much every count. Yes, there have been structural improvements in the core euro area, especially Germany. But much of the recovery is really cyclical. When the global economy is registering a fourth successive year of near-5% growth, it would be surprising if the world's biggest exporter did not benefit; indeed, growth of 3% seems rather modest. Moreover, much of Germany's renewed vigour reflects stringent control of real wages, which has secured a fall in unit labour costs when they have been rising elsewhere. Yet merely squeezing pay to gain competitiveness is not a long-term solution." And let not kid ourselves as to what they are "doing", they are liberalising (Europeon/old meaning of liberal) thier economies. France has more reforms on the way, and there have already been riots. Longer hours, less pay, fewer benifets is what this growth is based on.

LadyEllen -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 11:45:45 AM)
Crikey Popeye! Where did you get all that from? I ask because it bears no resemblance to my experiences over in Czech and Hungary - aside from the bureaucracy that is, which is Byzantine. What I find is that Czech, western Hungary and Slovenia are all pretty much on the ball. The rest of the centre/east does have some catching up to do, though Romania is an absolute toilet. If you saw the opening scenes of "Borat" - that was Romania. E

Estring -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 11:56:12 AM)
Sorry, Europe is a dying continent. The one shining light was England, but sadly, they are being sucked into the quagmire that is the rest of Europe. Some schools in England have now decided to quit teaching about Winston Churchill and substitute Global Warming instead. And of course don't mention Islamic and terrorist in the same sentence. Very sad. How many years will it be before Europe will need our help to save itself from itself again? Not many I'm afraid.

popeye1250 -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 12:12:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Crikey Popeye! Where did you get all that from? I ask because it bears no resemblance to my experiences over in Czech and Hungary - aside from the bureaucracy that is, which is Byzantine. What I find is that Czech, western Hungary and Slovenia are all pretty much on the ball. The rest of the centre/east does have some catching up to do, though Romania is an absolute toilet. If you saw the opening scenes of "Borat" - that was Romania. E Lady Ellen, just go into Yahoo/ Search, type in "Hungary/real estate" or "Czeck Republic/real estate." There's a bunch of sites in there it's one of the first five that I looked at. It has "cost of living", "politics" etc. And the pictures of the "flats" look like something out of the 1940's/50's! Big block buildings with apartments/ condos in them that look like the Soviets built them. And the prices that they list are way out of line with what the "flats" are. You'd have to be on prozac to live in one of those depressing places! Like I said, people aren't immigrating "to" those places they're immigrating "out" of them.

domiguy -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 12:18:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Estring Sorry, Europe is a dying continent. The one shining light was England, but sadly, they are being sucked into the quagmire that is the rest of Europe. Some schools in England have now decided to quit teaching about Winston Churchill and substitute Global Warming instead. And of course don't mention Islamic and terrorist in the same sentence. Very sad. How many years will it be before Europe will need our help to save itself from itself again? Not many I'm afraid. Well maybe if they start teaching their young about the grave dangers of Islamic terrorists and how noble "the war on Terror" actually is....their continent will be saved...Yipppeee!!! Great post.

philosophy -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 12:38:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Estring How many years will it be before Europe will need our help to save itself from itself again? Not many I'm afraid. ...same way you 'saved' Iraq? Yikes........

caitlyn -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 12:39:52 PM)
In my travels to Europe, I found it a wonderful place. The European countryside is amazingly beautiful, and the mixture of old-world and new world is very appealing. I didn't care for a lot of the food, but that's cultural ... I don't like a lot of the food they serve here in the states either. About the only real negative was the afore mentioned European hotels, which can only be rated as NFAFL (Not Fit for American Female Lodging). I think you might be putting too much stock in what is taught in schools. Children that crave education, have an irritating way of deciding for themselves, what that education will consist of. It is absolutely possible to get a very high grade in a class, and think the entire class was a bunch of fucking horse shit. I've done it many times. [;)] I do agree with you, that Europe will have another big blowup, sooner than later. Their history does more than mearly suggest it. Time are good now ... everyone is happy and peaceful. When times get tough, my guess is that things will revert to form. I find this very sad, and hope to all ends that I'm completely wrong. I would hate to see the beautiful Europe I have visited, end up in termoil.

popeye1250 -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 1:02:18 PM)
Caitlyn, I've been all over Europe too in the Navy and on my own. I know what you mean about "NFAFL" A lot of places are just not what we in the U.S., Great Britain , Australia, or Canada are used to. When I was in those sites about Eastern Europe last night I also was checking out Portugal. It said that there are "many E, Europeans immigrating to Portugal" as well. A term that we don't hear very often is "Second world." Like "third world" being poor countries. I'd say that a lot of the old Soviet Union and E. Europe is probably what you could call, "second world." Poor with high unemployment, marginal education systems, substandard housing, little in the way of "social services" but people obviously aren't starving. Romania is probably on the lower end of that "second world" scale. I have a friend who's from Dublin and is a Bio Chemist at Tufts Uni in Boston and he just came back from Ireland three weeks ago after a visit and he said; "the place is "fookin" BLACK with Eastern Europeans!" (They have a way with words over there! lol) So, there definately is an outward trend in those countries.

Level -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 4:47:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Estring Lol. You guys crack me up. Damn, Estring, I must be getting good, making people laugh without even trying. [8\|]

Sinergy -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 5:58:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Well at least we Europeans seem to be doing something right and we still have universal healthcare, relatively good social provision and more holidays than everyone else. Not bad for a continent full of the work shy. I've just been looking into buying a studio appartment ten minutes from the centre of Berlin for $205,000. Damn cheap. Workers in Europe get more vacations than AnencephalyBoy? I am stunned. Sinergy

Alumbrado -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 6:54:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Crikey Popeye! Where did you get all that from? I ask because it bears no resemblance to my experiences over in Czech and Hungary - aside from the bureaucracy that is, which is Byzantine. What I find is that Czech, western Hungary and Slovenia are all pretty much on the ball. The rest of the centre/east does have some catching up to do, though Romania is an absolute toilet. If you saw the opening scenes of "Borat" - that was Romania. E Well, here is less well publicized view of the 'progressive' Czech Republic, and its 'economic miracle'. http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/CzechRepublic.htm

meatcleaver -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 10:50:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn You know Meatcleaver ... if an American had said that about their home, you would have accused them of being flag waving patriots. [;)][8\|][;)] The opening post pointed out that the European economy was growing faster than the US's and Japan's. When I said we are at least doing something right and still had a reasonable equatable society (except Britain), I was thinking of a recent thread where an American lamented on the lack of holidays in the US and many people in the thread seemed to suggest a good material life depended on a work ethic that allowed no time for holidays. I think the OP suggests it doesn't, one can work to live, one doesn't need to live for work.

meatcleaver -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 10:58:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Estring Sorry, Europe is a dying continent. The one shining light was England, but sadly, they are being sucked into the quagmire that is the rest of Europe. Some schools in England have now decided to quit teaching about Winston Churchill and substitute Global Warming instead. And of course don't mention Islamic and terrorist in the same sentence. Very sad. How many years will it be before Europe will need our help to save itself from itself again? Not many I'm afraid. Britain is far from a dhining example to the rest of western Europe. Only yesaterday there was a report by the Rowntree foundation pointing out that Britain is the most inequatable country in (western) Europe and has more social problems than other more equatable European societies. More drug use, more teenage mothers, lower education standards and all the other things that go with an inequatbale society. Britain is the one country in Europe that runs its economy similarly to the US where it is run for the benefit of the rich rather than the society as a whole and because of that, has similar social problems that the US has. Meanwhile the rich in both countries just get richer because the society is run for their welfare.

meatcleaver -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 11:01:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Crikey Popeye! Where did you get all that from? I ask because it bears no resemblance to my experiences over in Czech and Hungary - aside from the bureaucracy that is, which is Byzantine. What I find is that Czech, western Hungary and Slovenia are all pretty much on the ball. The rest of the centre/east does have some catching up to do, though Romania is an absolute toilet. If you saw the opening scenes of "Borat" - that was Romania. E Well, here is less well publicized view of the 'progressive' Czech Republic, and its 'economic miracle'. http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/CzechRepublic.htm Eastern Europe still has a legacy from their days under the Russian yolk. However, anyone who has been to these countries will know that they are progressing in leaps and bounds now they are under western European influence.

meatcleaver -> RE: Revival in Europe? (7/17/2007 11:08:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 And let not kid ourselves as to what they are "doing", they are liberalising (Europeon/old meaning of liberal) thier economies. France has more reforms on the way, and there have already been riots. Longer hours, less pay, fewer benifets is what this growth is based on. You should check out what is really happening in France. There are some liberalising reforms but Sarkozy isn't the man many Americans think he is. He doesn't believe in the Anglo-Saxon way as the French call it. In fact they only have to look to their German neighbours to see the Anglo-Saxon way isn't the way to go. Germany is the biggest exporter in the world, exporting more manufactured goods than the US while Germans workers enjoy far more benefits than their American counterparts. Sarkozy has no intention of opening up the French economy, in fact he believes the EU should protect French industry, he isn't even allowing EU companies to take over French companies and he insists that the French will keep ownership of French utilities. Looking east looks very attractive to the French because if they look north to Britain they see a socially divided society with all the social problems that entails. Liberalizing hasn't made life better for the many Brits, it has just increased the inequality of British society.

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