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MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website with... - 7/18/2007 11:12:05 PM   
Real0ne


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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3844313056769475920

damnit folks this pisses me off in a really big way.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/19/2007 6:53:40 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3844313056769475920

damnit folks this pisses me off in a really big way.



Pissed maybe,but are you surprised?

Bush had gotten rid of the terrorism and FEMA cabinet secretary positions,prior to 9/11,and recently closed the "Bin Laden" unit,in the CIA.I`ve seen him say that he doesn`t think about Bin Laden anymore,but recently he`s all over that one.

As for harming US interests,and our fight against terrorist,in order to advance their own political agenda,Bush and co have done this before.They released sensitive info about a planned bombing in London,which allowed many of those involved to escape.Scoutland Yard was pissed!This was just after a deadly bombing in the London Underground(subway).Bush released the info while bragging about all the "evil doers" he`s stopped.
Don`t forget Plamegate and Libbygate, that`s far from over.

Here`s another ditty.

http://www.iava.org/component/option,com_/Itemid,67/option,content/task,view/id,2494/

Just who`s side is Bush on?

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/19/2007 7:05:54 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Old news, R0, old news.

And a great example on how to slant a story to make maximum political advantage against your ideological opponents.

MSNBC is well known as being deep in the gripe of BDS.

This story is almost a year old, and if you weren't all prepared to believe any and everything evil and negative about Bush (or, in your case - any government), you might dig up the "rest of the story" about the public release of the massive library of captured Iraqi government documents.

US puts Iraqi documents on the Web

Goal is to speed up translation of files

By Hiawatha Bray, Globe Staff  |  March 18, 2006

Goaded by Congress, Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte has begun to release millions of pages of captured files online in an unprecedented effort to harness the Internet to disseminate raw intelligence material. There, anybody with a knowledge of Arabic can download the files and translate them for the world.

It's the same ''open source" principle that drove the successful development of the Internet and of powerful free software like the Linux operating system. Instead of hiring a team of brilliant professionals to analyze Iraqi documents in secret, the open source systems will use hundreds of clever amateurs, who'll publish their work for anyone to analyze and improve upon.

''Workers control the means of production, but without all that tedious communism," said Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee and author of ''An Army of Davids," a book that shows how the Internet encourages public activism.

US intelligence officials say nearly all the documents released have been given at least a cursory reading by Arabic experts. Beth Marple, Negroponte's deputy press secretary, said amateur translators won't find any major surprises, such as proof Hussein hid stockpiles of chemical weapons.

Operation Iraqi Freedom documents ...

... refers to some 48,000 boxes of documents, audiotapes and videotapes that were discovered by the U.S. military during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The documents date from the 1980s through the post-Saddam period. The U.S. government, at the urging of members of Congress, made them available online at its Foreign Military Studies Office website, requesting Arabic translators around the world to help in the translation. In early November 2006, the entire set of documents was removed. Media reports stated that the website was taken offline because of security concerns regarding the posting of sophisticated diagrams and other information regarding nuclear weapon.

...

The New York Times called the material a "nuclear primer' because it included about a dozen documents in Arabic that contained "charts, diagrams, equations and lengthy narratives about bomb building that nuclear experts who have viewed them say go beyond what is available elsewhere on the Internet and in other public forums.

Aren't you just proud of MSNBC and the NYT?  The US government takes the unprecedented step of releasing a massive amount of information about what really happened in Iraq under Saddam, but these two news organizations slant their coverage about the issue - never mentioning the unprecedented nature of the release - to cause maximum damage to the Bush administration.

As a result, historians and common people around the world lost access to all the information on millions of documents.  All over security concerns caused by about 12 or so of those documents.

I guess you're proud of that, huh?  Freedom of information isn't something you support, I guess, if you can make the "PTB" take a political hit.

FirmKY


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RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/19/2007 7:51:33 AM   
Real0ne


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The Pentagon cautioned that the government "has made no determination regarding the authenticity of the documents, validity or factual accuracy of the information contained therein, or the quality of any translations, when available."

KY

You take no issue with the administration circumventing a proper investigation of wtc as a result of 911 then at the same time you whine that posting nuke designs on the net should have been allowed.

Like the government could not find even "one" person in this world who can read arabic.  All he had to do is call up his buddy usama eh? 

you have some seriously messed up priorities my friend.  (but then partison politics tends to do that to a person)


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/19/2007 8:07:27 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

The Pentagon cautioned that the government "has made no determination regarding the authenticity of the documents, validity or factual accuracy of the information contained therein, or the quality of any translations, when available."

KY

You take no issue with the administration circumventing a proper investigation of wtc as a result of 911 then at the same time you whine that posting nuke designs on the net should have been allowed.

Like the government could not find even "one" person in this world who can read arabic.  All he had to do is call up his buddy usama eh? 

you have some seriously messed up priorities my friend.  (but then partison politics tends to do that to a person)



You can find and download plenty of plans for nukes on the net.  I've done it.

You still don't address the main issue that I raised: Major news organizations supporting censorship because it fits their ideological agenda, rather than the freedom of information.

I have no idea what you mean by "with the administration circumventing a proper investigation of wtc as a result of 911" other than another one of your inane conspiracy theories.  Rant about it if you wish, but your ideologically driven position makes it of little interest to me, to debunk it.  No amount of information, facts, or arguments will change your opinion in the slightest, so I'm not interested in engaging you in that area.

"... at the same time you whine that posting nuke designs on the net should have been allowed." 

I'm not the one whining.

you have some seriously messed up priorities my friend.  (but then partison politics tends to do that to a person)
/sarcasm

Nice to know that you are so non-partisan, and make such great efforts to be impartial.  I guess someone has to be.

/end sarcasm

FirmKY


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Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/19/2007 8:08:36 AM   
vield


Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		LOL the Progressive Magazine of Madison, Wis. published a nuclear bomb design article back in about 1979. They certainly are not conservative at all, but the opposite. The feds got an injuction against the distribution of that issue of the magazine, then a local Madison alternative paper called The Press Connection distributed many issues of their own paper containing the article. Then it was already "out there", but the govt. also tried to stifle that. When a big paper also distributed the article ( might have been Chicago Tribune?) as a support of the First Amendment, the injuction against the Progressive had to be dropped. All of the information had long been in the public domain anyway in scientific publications. By trying to stifle an article in a small liberal mag, the govt actually drew a LOT more attention world wide to the published bomb information than that mag would ever have gotten simply selling their magazine.

_____________________________

As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

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RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/19/2007 5:40:41 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

The Pentagon cautioned that the government "has made no determination regarding the authenticity of the documents, validity or factual accuracy of the information contained therein, or the quality of any translations, when available."

KY

You take no issue with the administration circumventing a proper investigation of wtc as a result of 911 then at the same time you whine that posting nuke designs on the net should have been allowed.

Like the government could not find even "one" person in this world who can read arabic.  All he had to do is call up his buddy usama eh? 

you have some seriously messed up priorities my friend.  (but then partison politics tends to do that to a person)



You can find and download plenty of plans for nukes on the net.  I've done it.

You still don't address the main issue that I raised: Major news organizations supporting censorship because it fits their ideological agenda, rather than the freedom of information.

I have no idea what you mean by "with the administration circumventing a proper investigation of wtc as a result of 911" other than another one of your inane conspiracy theories.  Rant about it if you wish, but your ideologically driven position makes it of little interest to me, to debunk it.  No amount of information, facts, or arguments will change your opinion in the slightest, so I'm not interested in engaging you in that area.

"... at the same time you whine that posting nuke designs on the net should have been allowed." 

I'm not the one whining.

you have some seriously messed up priorities my friend.  (but then partison politics tends to do that to a person)
/sarcasm

Nice to know that you are so non-partisan, and make such great efforts to be impartial.  I guess someone has to be.

/end sarcasm

FirmKY



ok so you want to skip over and move past the quote that i pasted from the link you provided that saysd the pentagon made no determination of the authenticity of all those iraq documents-------ok then

So you feel that governments should openly post on the net plans to build nukes huh...   That has a definite ring if irresponsibility to me.  

Yes that certainly is unprecedented isnt it?  So is the requirement to file FOI on every damn thing we want to know from the government we pay for.   Then when we ask for obl medical records the fbi protects him under section 6 blah blah and we still do not get that information.

It seems to me that if our government wants to be open they would have had a full independent investigation of 911 as the people wanted, i mean like after all we are the tax payer and it is on our nickel not theirs so what is the problem?  

Yes i think it is wonderful that our government is willing to give nuke plans to the world while simultaneously passing legislation to spy on the american people and hiding everything they do from the american people.

Oh yeh the bias thing, who doesnt have an agenda?  Everyone has an agenda, even you.  



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/19/2007 5:57:37 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		R0,

Other than the use of slanted news stories for ideological purposes, the real story should have been that all the other documents were removed from public access.

The media should have been complaining, and investigating the removal of all the other documents ... that's a restriction on the public's "right to know" that the media should legitimately raise hell about. 

But they didn't.  Utter frigging silence on that issue.  Why do you think that was?

ok so you want to skip over and move past the quote that i pasted from the link you provided that saysd the pentagon made no determination of the authenticity of all those iraq documents-------ok then

Whats the relevance to my point?

So you feel that governments should openly post on the net plans to build nukes huh...   That has a definite ring if irresponsibility to me.
Straw man argument.  You're putting words in my mouth.  Please stop.  This is exactly what MSNBC did in the video you linked.

So is the requirement to file FOI on every damn thing we want to know from the government we pay for.   Then when we ask for obl medical records the fbi protects him under section 6 blah blah and we still do not get that information.
Again ... so why not screams of anguish from the media when the government takes away documents from public access from the Iraqi archives it captured after the war?

You're just cherry picking your issues to prove your point.  That tends to reflect an agenda, not any actual care about the issues under discussion.

It seems to me that if our government wants to be open they would have had a full independent investigation of 911 as the people wanted, i mean like after all we are the tax payer and it is on our nickel not theirs so what is the problem? 
What's this?     911 Report

Oh yeh the bias thing, who doesnt have an agenda?  Everyone has an agenda, even you.  
Sure I do.  I freely admit it.

So you are admitting that MSNBC had an agenda in the video, as well, I assume?

FirmKY




_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/20/2007 9:14:02 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

R0,

Other than the use of slanted news stories for ideological purposes, the real story should have been that all the other documents were removed from public access.

The media should have been complaining, and investigating the removal of all the other documents ... that's a restriction on the public's "right to know" that the media should legitimately raise hell about.

But they didn't.  Utter frigging silence on that issue.  Why do you think that was?

   ok so you want to skip over and move past the quote that i pasted from the link you provided that saysd the pentagon made no determination of the authenticity of all those iraq documents-------ok then


Whats the relevance to my point?

   So you feel that governments should openly post on the net plans to build nukes huh...   That has a definite ring if irresponsibility to me.

Straw man argument.  You're putting words in my mouth.  Please stop.  This is exactly what MSNBC did in the video you linked.

   So is the requirement to file FOI on every damn thing we want to know from the government we pay for.   Then when we ask for obl medical records the fbi protects him under section 6 blah blah and we still do not get that information.

Again ... so why not screams of anguish from the media when the government takes away documents from public access from the Iraqi archives it captured after the war?

You're just cherry picking your issues to prove your point.  That tends to reflect an agenda, not any actual care about the issues under discussion.

   It seems to me that if our government wants to be open they would have had a full independent investigation of 911 as the people wanted, i mean like after all we are the tax payer and it is on our nickel not theirs so what is the problem?

What's this?     911 Report

   Oh yeh the bias thing, who doesnt have an agenda?  Everyone has an agenda, even you.  

Sure I do.  I freely admit it.

So you are admitting that MSNBC had an agenda in the video, as well, I assume?

FirmKY



Oh shit slanted?  well i guess we better just throw the whole thing in the garbage then so our brains do not get infected by it.

You are asking me why i think the media would want the nuke part taken down and not talk about the rest?   Come on you are joking man, i have volumes and volumes, like to the tune od a terrabyte of volumes of "things" the media should have reported and raised a HUGE fuss about.   Even the elite worry about nuclear.  It would sort of put a cramp in their style to live the rest of their lives in an underground bunker.  As for the rest what do they give a shit?  It does nothing to further the cause.


As i pointed out from the link you supplied that the pentagon claims that the great loss you talk about have not been confirmed as "authentic".  maybe you missed that?  So what is the great loss you speak of?  (the pentagon's position means that the us government who put all that precious data on the freely accessed "world wide internet" with claims that they could not find even one arab in this whole wide world to translate those documents may have planted that data and the pentagon does not want to put their dicks on the chopping block see?)

Of course now that we REALLY pissed off the ME and nuke designs can be freely downloaded i guess we need to give up all our inalienable rights so our most honest and trusted government can at a whim spy and perform warrantless searches on the american people while the borders are left open for anyone to cross. (even terrorists!)   yeh... makes perfect sense to me!  The elite wouldnt want some american to crash their party now would they?

i explained the relavance above.

Why not screams from the public?  Why denial from the public?

Cherry picking issues?  Here we go again, the label department in is session.  I pick issues, specific targeted issues to make a specific point.  Either you can respond to and refute them or acquiesce, your choice.  If you want balance then "refute them" and give it what ever balance you feel is required to square off. If the best you can do is put your slanted and biased labels on them, then please save us both the keyboard masterbation time and drop it.

The 911 essay?   Its a nice documentary of ommission and distortion.  Have you ever read it?  Would you like to go over it line item by line item and discuss the nuts and bolts of it?  i am up for it if you are.  They are not nicknamed the 911 ommission commission for nothing you know LOL

No i do not agree that msnbc's agenda matches either your definition, nor does it appear to match your agenda.












_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/20/2007 10:16:41 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		OK, I have to ask: What is "the gripe of BDS"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

MSNBC is well known as being deep in the gripe of BDS.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/20/2007 10:24:51 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

OK, I have to ask: What is "the gripe of BDS"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

MSNBC is well known as being deep in the gripe of BDS.



Bush Derangement Syndrome.


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/21/2007 8:24:42 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

R0,


You're just cherry picking your issues to prove your point.  That tends to reflect an agenda, not any actual care about the issues under discussion.

It seems to me that if our government wants to be open they would have had a full independent investigation of 911 as the people wanted, i mean like after all we are the tax payer and it is on our nickel not theirs so what is the problem? 
What's this?     911 Report

Oh yeh the bias thing, who doesnt have an agenda?  Everyone has an agenda, even you.  
Sure I do.  I freely admit it.

So you are admitting that MSNBC had an agenda in the video, as well, I assume?

FirmKY



No i am pointing out that the 911 ommission commission is nothing more than a fucking joke.  There is no way i can believe you even cracked the cover open to be tossing that me like it actually carries some kind of "validity"! 


9/11 Commission Chairmen Admit Whitewashing the Cause of the Attacks
August 7, 2006
Ivan Eland

As both the Bush administration and its client government in Israel, with their invasions of Arab states in Iraq and Lebanon, respectively, make the United States ever more hated in the Islamic world, a new book by the chairmen of the 9/11 commission admits that the commission whitewashed the root cause of the 9/11 attacks—that same interventionist U.S. foreign policy.

snip

Some commissioners wanted to cover up the link between the 9/11 attack and U.S. support for Israel because this might imply that the United States should alter policy and lessen its support for Israeli actions. How right they were. The question is simple: if the vast bulk of Americans would be safer if U.S. politicians moderated their slavish support of Israel, designed to win the support of key pressure groups at home, wouldn’t it be a good idea to make this change in course? Average U.S. citizens might attenuate their support for Israel if the link between the 9/11 attacks and unquestioning U.S. favoritism for Israeli excesses were more widely known. Similarly, if American taxpayers knew that the expensive and unnecessary U.S. policy of intervening in the affairs of countries all over the world—including the U.S. military presence in the Middle East—made them less secure from terrorist attacks at home, pressure would likely build for an abrupt change to a more restrained U.S. foreign policy. But like the original 9/11 Commission report, President Bush regularly obscures this important reality by saying that America was attacked on 9/11 because of its freedoms, making no mention of U.S. interventionist foreign policy as the root cause.
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1785

-----------------------------

More goodies

U.S., U.K. Waged War on Iraq Because of Oil, Blair Adviser Says

By James Kirkup London, May 1 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. and U.K. went to war against Iraq because of the Middle East country's oil reserves, an adviser to British Prime Minister Tony Blair said. Sir Jonathan Porritt, head of the Sustainable Development Commission, which advises Blair's government on ecological issues, said the prospect of winning access to Iraqi oil was ''a very large factor'' in the allies' decision to attack Iraq in March. "I don't think the war would have happened if Iraq didn't have the second-largest oil reserves in the world,'' Porritt said in a Sky News television interview. Opponents of the war, including some members of Blair's Labour Party, have said that the conflict was aimed at securing Iraqi reserves to benefit Western economies and oil companies. U.S. and U.K. leaders have repeatedly rejected that, saying the war began because Iraq held illegal weapons and threatened other countries. Blair has said he wants Iraqi oil revenues to be held in a United Nations-run trust fund and sp
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/050103_oil_war.html


------------------------

What the hell one more....

The Five Dancing Israelis  Arrested On 9-11

As the world watched in disbelief and asked the question...

Click for full size image

...Mossad operatives were seen dancing with joy.


A Mossad surveillance team made quite a public spectacle of themselves on 9-11.
The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards. (1)

Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents claiming "middle-eastern" men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery. (2)

"They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me" said a witness. (3

[T]hey were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. (4)

Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact (5). Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot. (6)
"It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park." (7)

One anonymous phone call to the authorities actually led them to close down all of New York's bridges and tunnels. The mystery caller told the 9-1-1 dispatcher that a group of Palestinians were mixing a bomb inside of a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel. Here's the transcript from NBC News:
Dispatcher: Jersey City police.
Caller: Yes, we have a white van, 2 or 3 guys in there, they look like Palestinians and going around a building.
Caller: There's a minivan heading toward the Holland tunnel, I see the guy by Newark Airport mixing some junk and he has those sheikh uniform.
Dispatcher: He has what?
Caller: He's dressed like an Arab. (8)

(*Writer's note: Why would this mystery caller specifically say that these "Arabs" were Palestinians? How would he know that? Palestinians usually dress in western style clothes, not "sheikh uniforms")
 

Based on that phone call, police then issued a "Be-on-the-Lookout" alert for a white mini-van heading for the city's bridges and tunnels from New Jersey.
White, 2000 Chevrolet van with 'Urban Moving Systems' sign on back seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner into World Trade Center Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals. (9)
When a van fitting that exact description was stopped just before crossing into New York, the suspicious "middle-easterners" were apprehended. Imagine the surprise of the police officers when these terror suspects turned out to be Israelis!

According to ABC’s 20/20, when the van belonging to the cheering Israelis was stopped by the police, the driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers:
"We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problem." (10)

Why did he feel that Palestinians were a problem for the NYPD?

The police and FBI field agents became very suspicious when they found maps of the c

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/21/2007 8:35:53 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/22/2007 12:09:39 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		error


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 7/22/2007 12:10:12 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/22/2007 12:11:06 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

R0,


You're just cherry picking your issues to prove your point.  That tends to reflect an agenda, not any actual care about the issues under discussion.

It seems to me that if our government wants to be open they would have had a full independent investigation of 911 as the people wanted, i mean like after all we are the tax payer and it is on our nickel not theirs so what is the problem? 
What's this?     911 Report

Oh yeh the bias thing, who doesnt have an agenda?  Everyone has an agenda, even you.  
Sure I do.  I freely admit it.

So you are admitting that MSNBC had an agenda in the video, as well, I assume?

FirmKY



No i am pointing out that the 911 ommission commission is nothing more than a fucking joke.  There is no way i can believe you even cracked the cover open to be tossing that me like it actually carries some kind of "validity"! 


9/11 Commission Chairmen Admit Whitewashing the Cause of the Attacks
August 7, 2006
Ivan Eland

As both the Bush administration and its client government in Israel, with their invasions of Arab states in Iraq and Lebanon, respectively, make the United States ever more hated in the Islamic world, a new book by the chairmen of the 9/11 commission admits that the commission whitewashed the root cause of the 9/11 attacks—that same interventionist U.S. foreign policy.

snip


i suppose the thing that amazes me most about your posting  snarky little put down quips like

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
I have no idea what you mean by "with the administration circumventing a proper investigation of wtc as a result of 911" other than another one of your inane conspiracy theories.  Rant about it if you wish, but your ideologically driven position makes it of little interest to me, to debunk it.  No amount of information, facts, or arguments will change your opinion in the slightest, so I'm not interested in engaging you in that area.


is when i post supporting information for my INANE conspiracy theories, unless of course people with the credentials of ivan's are meaningless to you - you like so many others all of a sudden go AWOL from the thread!


Where i came from we dont call that not discussing because something is INANE we call that "cheap shot and run".   Likewise where i come from its called nothing to contribute but snarkisms.


Meet Ivan:
Ivan Eland is Senior Fellow and Director of the Center on Peace & Liberty at The Independent Institute. Dr. Eland is a graduate of Iowa State University and received an M.B.A. in applied economics and Ph.D. in national security policy from George Washington University. He has been Director of Defense Policy Studies at the Cato Institute, and he spent 15 years working for Congress on national security issues, including stints as an investigator for the House Foreign Affairs Committee and Principal Defense Analyst at the Congressional Budget Office. He also has served as Evaluator-in-Charge (national security and intelligence) for the U.S. General Accounting Office, and has testified on the military and financial aspects of NATO expansion before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and on CIA oversight before the House Government Reform Committee.

Dr. Eland is the author of the Independent Institute books The Empire Has No Clothes: U.S. Foreign Policy Exposed and Putting “Defense” Back into U.S. Defense Policy, as well as The Efficacy of Economic Sanctions as a Foreign Policy Tool. He also is a contributor to numerous volumes and the author of 45 in-depth studies on national security issues. His articles have appeared in Arms Control Today, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, Emory Law Journal, The Independent Review, Issues in Science and Technology (National Academy of Sciences), Mediterranean Quarterly, Middle East and International Review, Middle East Policy, Nexus, and Northwestern Journal of International Affairs.

Dr. Eland’s popular writings have appeared in such publications as the Los Angeles Times, USA Today, Houston Chronicle, Dallas Morning News, Insight, San Diego Union-Tribune, Washington Post, Miami Herald, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Newsday, Sacramento Bee, Orange County Register, Chicago Sun-Times, Washington Times and Defense News. He has appeared on ABC’s “World News Tonight,’ NPR’s “Talk of the Nation,” PBS, Fox News Channel, CNBC, CNN, CNN “Crossfire,” CNN-fn, C-SPAN, MSNBC, CBC, Radio Free Europe, Voice of America, BBC, and other local, national, and international TV and radio programs.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/22/2007 12:15:51 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You can find and download plenty of plans for nukes on the net.  I've done it.



You never see Bin Laden, Kim Jong Il, and FirmhandKY at the same party.

They all are searching for nuclear weapons materials on the web.  

Are these three, in fact, the same person...

A coincidence, or...

Im just sayin...

Sinergy

p.s.  Yeah, the plans to build nukes have been on the net since it first existed.  The major stopping point for people building a nuke is the source of weapons grade fissionable materials, the machining capabilities to build it, and the detonating explosives to set it off.


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/22/2007 12:46:59 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You can find and download plenty of plans for nukes on the net.  I've done it.



You never see Bin Laden, Kim Jong Il, and FirmhandKY at the same party.

They all are searching for nuclear weapons materials on the web.  

Are these three, in fact, the same person...

A coincidence, or...

Im just sayin...

Sinergy

p.s.  Yeah, the plans to build nukes have been on the net since it first existed.  The major stopping point for people building a nuke is the source of weapons grade fissionable materials, the machining capabilities to build it, and the detonating explosives to set it off.



i agree that fissionable materil is "presently" hard to come by, however where i take EXTREME issue is with a government that puts that information out in the open while oppressing the american people with the dismantling of the constitution to protect us from the same!   i posted the dual pressure model siting several examples and this is just another one of those examples.   (of course it does serve to those who are unaware the NEED for lots more PROTECTION from the GOVERNMENT)

In other words why draw a target on our asses because that is not to say the day wont come when there is material availiable or some should slip out somewhere.  The government knows these things.  i know they know better. 

Numerous private sites that posted similar plans were forced to take them down.   Wasnt it the rosenburgs who got the chair or gas for selling nuke secrets to the ussr?    Seems sort of hypocritical to me to treat this like nothing more than a flu as if we had some kind of cure from it.

Besides i thought he went danny yatom's parties?



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/22/2007 12:57:52 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		I suppose the point here and underlying message is that if the government of the us is willing to openly put nuke plans, our most formidable and dangerous weapons on the internet for anyone to download and study then at the same time create new departments to spy on the people of this country where does it stop?

The implications becomes clearly obvious that our government is creating a need for we the people to increase the size of government for our protection at the demise of our inalienable rights.

Its unfortunate that people do not see the short and long term implications of such action and just go with the flow regardless of whose parties they hang with :)


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/22/2007 4:40:23 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

No i am pointing out that the 911 ommission commission is nothing more than a fucking joke.  There is no way i can believe you even cracked the cover open to be tossing that me like it actually carries some kind of "validity"! 


I wasn't totally happy with the 911 committee, and their report either, but a conspiracy outlook on life and world events is simply a psychological crutch for people unable or unwilling to face life as it is.  It's a crutch to help them deal with unresolved anxiety and feelings of powerlessness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

9/11 Commission Chairmen Admit Whitewashing the Cause of the Attacks
August 7, 2006
Ivan Eland

[snip]

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1785


Worthless trash commentary masquerading as serious political analysis.

Not even a first person analysis of the very book that they are using to draw conclusions from.  In the entire article, they actually quote the authors a single time, in the sentence: 

Although Hamilton, to his credit, argued for saying that the reasons al Qaeda committed the heinous strike were the U.S. military presence in the Middle East and American support for Israel, the panel watered down that frank conclusion to state that U.S. policy on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and U.S. policy on Iraq are “dominant staples of popular commentary across the Arab and Muslim world.”
The book itself is a detailed narrative of the beaucratic wrangling that went on behind the scenes.  The inflamatory words that the article's authors use: ( Admit Whitewashing) isn't the actual words, nor the intent of the book authors.

Pure BS used to inflame, frighten and anger.

Worthless as research.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

More goodies

U.S., U.K. Waged War on Iraq Because of Oil, Blair Adviser Says

[snip]

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/050103_oil_war.html


As my 15 year old son would say: "Well .... duhhh."

Of course we are in Iraq, and the ME because of oil.  The foreign policy of the US and the UK is predicated on serving the national interest of the people's of their nations.

Assuring that vital natural resources are not used as weapons against us, while at the same time removing additional threats to our nations is a far cry from a "Blood for Oil" scenario.

Although I doubt you can see the difference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

What the hell one more....

The Five Dancing Israelis  Arrested On 9-11

As the world watched in disbelief and asked the question...

...

...Mossad operatives were seen dancing with joy.

[snip]

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html


Interesting event.

"Maris" has in interesting accent.  I wonder where she's from?  After all, she is the only one who saw anyone "laughing" and "dancing with shouts of joy and mockery".

Of course, she never said they were dancing.  Someone else just kinda added that bit.

And how nice to see "Mossad agents" go on an Israeli national TV talkshow, and spill their guts.

Video.

If I thought you were even half able to see out from your biases, I could give you a couple of good scenario's about what likely happened.

But "Five Mossad Agents Dancing in Joy at the Destruction of the Twin Towers" likely wouldn't be one of the scenarios.



Other posts of yours:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

suppose the thing that amazes me most about your posting  snarky little put down quips like ...

FirmKY:  ... other than another one of your inane conspiracy theories.


I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but all of these "9/11 truthers" conspiracy theories are inane.

inane:  1 : EMPTY, INSUBSTANTIAL
          2 : lacking significance, meaning, or point  : SILLY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

is when i post supporting information for my INANE conspiracy theories, unless of course people with the credentials of ivan's are meaningless to you - you like so many others all of a sudden go AWOL from the thread!

Where i came from we dont call that not discussing because something is INANE we call that "cheap shot and run".   Likewise where i come from its called nothing to contribute but snarkisms.


"Credentials" are, in and of themselves, worthless to prove the truthfullness or actuality of anything.  Your lengthy quoting of "Ivan's" doesn't add anything nor take anything away from my above observations of what was done and said (or not said) in the article he wrote.

As far as "cheap shots" and running, the truth is that I and most everyone else here recognizes that you have a fixation that no amount of proof, facts, logical discussion and/or appeals to history will change your opinion one little iota, because you are incapable of believing anything else than the garbage that you sprout.

Most of the time, I glance over your stuff, and ignore it. But occasionally you post stuff that is simply too easy to pass comment on.  So I do.  But since it all bounces off you like you were made out of teflon, I don't see much sense in playing your game and trying to answer ever little objection and observation.

Call it hit and run if you want.  I call it entertainment.

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/22/2007 6:02:06 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Not that I expect you to actually consider it:  "Dancing Israelis"

The site that that analysis comes from is pretty good.  I recommend it to all the sane people here:

911 Myths

Here is another one:

Popular Science - Debunking The 9/11 Myths

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: MSNBC - Unfucking Believable! Bush puts up website ... - 7/22/2007 8:53:09 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Not that I expect you to actually consider it:  "Dancing Israelis"

The site that that analysis comes from is pretty good.  I recommend it to all the sane people here:

911 Myths

Here is another one:

Popular Science - Debunking The 9/11 Myths

FirmKY



First i cant believe you put pm mag up here as your reference.  err pm mag and pop science are like one in the same see....   http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html


This is without question one of the biggest propaganda diareaha showers ever to sprayed on the american people.  (i have seen reasonably credible debunking work and they are NOT it LOL) It shows me that like lucky dog you have not taken the time to investigate who all those debunkers are.   Think of a wheel with spokes.  All roads lead to the center.  Well all roads lead toward HLS and cronies, and like i said i did research these people and they and or their companies had sweet kick backs, promoitions grants and you neam it whatever other little sweet deal you can think of for their part in this hoax.  My favorite is the demolition dood who originally said only demolition would bring those buildings down like that and then later changed his story.   do a goog on his ass he is one of the easier one to research, well aside from meigs and chertoff.



quote:

However, there’s still no witness evidence to support the claim that they were set up and filming before the attacks occurred.

So that means they were not then?  i am not sure how much that matters.  i think the title "dancing israelis" makes a statement, and i guess this girls neighbor must have had a beef with the coimpany too since they called it in together.

quote:

Officials declined to say why exactly the men had been arrested..

Thats normal....NOT

i do hope this debunking exercize that you apparently analysed since you sited it to support your position and specifically this section on the dancers was not intended to debunk anything, at best it would cause doubt they had "forehand" knowledge, but it does not touch who or what they were where as it is reported elsewhere that they are israelis, which i find incredibly interesting both that your debunk site failed to clarify that point or they simply ommitted the identification entirely and also taking note of the huge number of jewish people in our highest offices of government now days.

So is there like anything specific that you disagree with?   i pasted a couple links of the only sites that i would consider reasonably sane truth movement sites. (well except for alex, but i wanted to leave hyperbole out of it)  get enough on this subject as it is without bringing alex into it. (on a side note tho.......alex is on video tape recorded and copied by many of his viewers round about 25th of july 2001 begging his viewrs to write in to congress and warn them that "we know" and beg them NOT to blow up the wtc buildings.)  No one to date has been able to refute that one and thousands of viewrs seen that up close and personal and it is irrefutable.  Of course if alex a radio host knows before hand it begs lots of questions about the government does it not?.  i do have a copy of that broadcast btw.  Very interesting stuff.

i noticed in the very quick read that they misquoted several of the claims that the truth movement is making putting a very slightly but significantly different twist on thing and again in the quick read i notinced that they created several straw man arguements and attached them to the truth movement.   Of course there are a lot of people saying a lot of things and one can pick the most idiotic and claim it belongs to the truth movement and who would know if they had not read the truth movement.

i will give this a quick read for starters but frankly i have been skipping over most of which does not apply to areas that i personally have mentioned in previous posts that i believe are pivotal.

SO do you have anything specific or do i need to dig up my previous posts and line itemize them and take it from there?

For those who read it i highly suggest they
http://www.reopen911.org/
http://st911.org/

Now i do not claim to agree with these guys either line item by line item, in fact there are some sreas i disagree with them.  However they make a some pivotal and good cases that this whole deal was a fraud.

i did not see quite the extent of data twisting in the truth movement as i did on the 911 Myths site "as far as i have read it" which is not much so far but as far as pm mag is concerned, that one is a joke and just parrots the governments story with bought and paid for in full gov shills.

so whatcha got ky?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 20
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