RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether

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shysecrets -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/20/2007 12:26:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: utterlybutterfli Fast reply to Oside Girl Um, actually, not that this matters now that I have conceded you're all quite right. But apparently she isn't coming to see him, shes coming to visit friends.He's just an incidental. Apparently. And, really, do you think from my original post that what some submissive woman I wasn't particularly keen on this man seeing (and by the way, I don't actually think having feelings of jealousy makes me a bad or wrong person,), that I really care about the cost of this woman's flight? I really don't! thank you! I think that maybe Im a little confused because I had to read this a few times to understand, but it sounds like you are saying "You dont want this Dom to see this sub and you dont really care what her flight caust or how badly it effected her as long as you get your way" im really not sure I read that right, thats why Im asking. I do really hope that isnt what you ment becuase thats just mean!

SirMIkeSD -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/20/2007 12:48:31 PM)
shysecrets, I am with you on this, and hope I am wrong but if that is what she means I hope this Dom runs, not walks away from her, since apperently she is very self centered. Mike

Celeste43 -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/20/2007 1:11:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 He has every right to be poly. I don't think this situation necessarily means he's poly. He's a single guy who made a date and then started meeting the OP for coffee and things started clicking. He was honest and told her about it (point in his favor). She asked him to cancel that date (demerit in her favor) and he refused because he had given his date his word. (point in his favor). For all we know, he could be the most monogamous person in the word. It's not like he was moving this woman to the UK to be his submissive. It was just a play date. So, really....she's got a guy that was honest and will stand by what he commits to. But, she's willing to walk away because he made a date before they were together, that he won't cancel. He's expecting to sleep with Miss USA when she's there, and to sleep with the op when they get together. He hasn't told the visitor he's trying to get into the op's bed either. Nor say that all three should get tested prior to anything happening. Now if he promised to scene with Miss USA, why not take her to a dungeon and do so publicly in a nonsex manner? If he chose to do that, then the op could even join them for dinner beforehand. Hell, he could do a two sub scene. The only thing the op is asking is that he not have sex with the other one. Apparently that's too much to ask, that he skips dipping his wick into a visiting pot of wax for a night.

AquaticSub -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/20/2007 1:16:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 He's expecting to sleep with Miss USA when she's there, and to sleep with the op when they get together. He hasn't told the visitor he's trying to get into the op's bed either. Nor say that all three should get tested prior to anything happening. He is expecting to scene with Miss USA. Scenes do not always equal sex. In my experience, most scenes that happened between non-committed do not involve sex. quote: Now if he promised to scene with Miss USA, why not take her to a dungeon and do so publicly in a nonsex manner? Some people don't like to scene in public and dungeons cost money. quote: If he chose to do that, then the op could even join them for dinner beforehand. Hell, he could do a two sub scene. The only thing the op is asking is that he not have sex with the other one. Apparently that's too much to ask, that he skips dipping his wick into a visiting pot of wax for a night. I really don't think it matters where this happens to the OP. What matters is that he is going to scene with someone else. I don't recall her mentioning that they were or were not definately going to have sex. Either way - they aren't in a relationship yet. They are casually dating, so neither of them gets to say what the other one can't do. All that they can do is decide when they want to walk away.

Celeste43 -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/20/2007 1:41:16 PM)
The op said in a follow up post that she's monogamous and that this is the sticking point. She sure didn't mention that he's offered scene only as a compromise. Maybe I'm misreading it, wouldn't be the first time. But if he's looking for a relationship with the op, he could introduce the two, mention to his visitor he's gotten involved since they set up the plans.

daddysliloneds -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/20/2007 1:43:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: utterlybutterfli So, Are we really to believe that when a prospective Dom is just being honest with us that that is his true intention, or is it more of a case of, swallow this, bitch? Am I being completely unreasonable? the way i see it is as follows: you are both still single until the two of you have established between you otherwise, and he is being honest with you. i believe that to be his true intention, and that yes, you're being completely unreasonable.

AquaticSub -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/20/2007 1:44:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 The op said in a follow up post that she's monogamous and that this is the sticking point. She sure didn't mention that he's offered scene only as a compromise. Maybe I'm misreading it, wouldn't be the first time. But if he's looking for a relationship with the op, he could introduce the two, mention to his visitor he's gotten involved since they set up the plans. She said playdate from the start and there are lots of people who view scenes as a sexual activity that would break monogamony. That is what I'm getting from the OP. I could, of course, also be wrong.

Sabrina002 -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/20/2007 3:08:04 PM)
well i dont know how i would feel about it if it was me - but im rather grateful to see that there are some honest Doms out there. ive been on the receiving end of a few that seem to think that the D means 'kneel bitch and suck my dick' , i hasten to add that the conversation went no further. im sure it hurt a little but imagine how it would feel if you were the USA girl and told the meeting was off - who would he be dumping on then?? He seems to be being realistic, so should you be. If i understand it correctly, you have after all only just started talking again after a break. life does move on!! my hat goes off to him - hes being open and honest and communicating - its a delight to see. Apologies to all the open and honest Doms out there.. im sure us subs can be just as misleading...

bbwdommelilith -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/20/2007 3:20:20 PM)
I don't have anything to say about whether or not your expectation is reasonable; you've gotten a lot of feedback about that already. But this was my initial gut response: Beware! When you state a limit and someone accuses you of being controlling, they are either trying to manipulate you, or their mindset is primarily organized around issues of power and control, and they will likely rebel against any expectations that you have, or they will experience limits and expectations as an attempt to manipulate them. This makes negotiation difficult, if not impossible. I know- I've been there. Lilith "When you look into the abyss, the abyss looks into you...."

slaveish -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/20/2007 5:20:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: utterlybutterfli Um, actually, not that this matters now that I have conceded you're all quite right. But apparently she isn't coming to see him, shes coming to visit friends.He's just an incidental. Apparently. Interesting choice of words, incidental. Venemous actually. I doubt very seriously he is "incidental" or she wouldn't have agreed to a playdate. quote: ORIGINAL: utterlybutterfli (and by the way, I don't actually think having feelings of jealousy makes me a bad or wrong person,) No one said you were wrong or bad. The way you tried to control him is the part that is concerning. Jealousy is natural, normal. How it is expressed is what leads to problems. quote: ORIGINAL: utterlybutterfli And, really, do you think from my original post that what some submissive woman I wasn't particularly keen on this man seeing that I really care about the cost of this woman's flight? I really don't! I understand your feelings, but this foot-stomping and pouting is a little much. The man was honest with you. IF you had a prior arrangement in place, IF you and he were committed, and IF monogamy was negotiated, THEN you could be rightly insulted. As it is, your behavior is childish and bratty. Take comfort from his strength in not letting you top him. Your only job here is to accept reality. You don't have to like it, and in fact, you can hate it all you want; but he is going to spend time with this woman, period, whether or not you lock your knees and scream at the top of your lungs. The less energy you spend on it the better off you'll be. If you can't get past it, let it go; but if he's worthwhile and someone you enjoy as a person and possibly more, speak respectfully to him about it later when you have a little more history with him.

OsideGirl -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/21/2007 5:45:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 The op said in a follow up post that she's monogamous and that this is the sticking point. That's a fine expectation if you're in a relationship with someone. But, to expect someone you've met for coffee twice to be monogamous to you, is a little far fetched. He is not in a relationship with the OP. You've made three assumptions. 1) That because he has a date with another woman he's Poly. Poly infers a relationship with more than one person. The reality is that he's been meeting one for coffee and has a pre-existing date with another. 2) That he's planning to have sex with the pre-existing date, and you don't know that for sure. Many scene without sex. 3) That they live somewhere that is near a public dungeon.

OsideGirl -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/21/2007 5:51:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bbwdommelilith Beware! When you state a limit and someone accuses you of being controlling, they are either trying to manipulate you, or their mindset is primarily organized around issues of power and control, and they will likely rebel against any expectations that you have, or they will experience limits and expectations as an attempt to manipulate them. This makes negotiation difficult, if not impossible. I know- I've been there. Lilith They haven't even gotten to negotiation, yet. They've met for coffee TWICE! In this particular case she's using her limits to get what she wants from a man that she's not in a relationship with. "If you don't cancel the date you had before you started seeing me, I won't see you again."

LadyIce -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/21/2007 6:15:51 PM)
This sounds like a case of a submissive topping from the bottom and attempting to take charge of a relationship that is not even there. This is a good example of a situation that is not the Dominant's fault.

AquaticSub -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/21/2007 6:21:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyIce This sounds like a case of a submissive topping from the bottom and attempting to take charge of a relationship that is not even there. This is a good example of a situation that is not the Dominant's fault. How the hell is this topping from the bottom? Is a submissive not allowed to state, while unowned, what they don't find acceptable in a relationship? I'd agree she's guilty of expecting too much too soon, but topping from the bottom just doesn't make sense.

utterlybutterfli -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/21/2007 6:27:37 PM)
Hello again. As the OP, I'll try and clear some speculation up.. I don't believe the Dom in question is Poly, no. Hes never given me any reason to think this was the case. I did not believe on the strength of a couple of dates that we were in a relationship.That I thought I had a right to ask him not to play with this girl because I was hoping to submit to him, was the case. Without going into a long and detailed description about what this Dom said to me, or print out the transcripts (which would be ludicrous) you're just going to have to take my word for it that he did offer me reason to have some expectation for a potential future. My point about their play date being 'incidental' was in reference to the cost of the submissive's airfare. The Dom claims that the submissive is in the country to see friends. That was my only point in that sentence. Whether you think its unacceptable that I didn't mind if the sub was disappointed in not seeing this Dom when she as here, ostensibly to see other friends, well, ok. You ask me to put myself in her shoes, as I say, if a Dom 'friend' told me that he had found a sub and therefore couldn't play casually with me I would be delighted for him. IfI had truly felt this was a platonic relationship, and he was looking to do some non-sexual scening, I wouldn't have minded. I feel the Dom in question was a little disingenous with the description of the relationship and possibly deliberately ambiguous about the intended nature of play. Again, without me posting the actual conversations we had about it , you're just going to have to take my word on it. Theres been a lot been said on this topic that i've taken - I originally posted when I felt very unhappy about the situation and have accepted criticism where its due. However, calling me names such as venomous, childish, bratty,self-centred when you know nothing about me apart from my reaction to this particular disappointment seems a little bit moralistic . . But carry on if you wish.. my feelings on the matter won't change what has been said and what will be done so there doesn't seem to be very much point in me revisiting this. Thanks to everyone who had input.

LadyIce -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/21/2007 6:30:08 PM)
It is topping from the bottom if she expects a Dominant to drop and change his life for her after 2 dates. She has a right to have expectations, and he has a right to do whatever he wants to do. She stated that she told him she does not want him to see the other submissive. THAT is topping from the bottom.

AquaticSub -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/21/2007 6:34:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyIce It is topping from the bottom if she expects a Dominant to drop and change his life for her after 2 dates. She has a right to have expectations, and he has a right to do whatever he wants to do. She stated that she told him she does not want him to see the other submissive. THAT is topping from the bottom. Right... when we started dating I told Valyraen I didn't want him sleeping with other women and that if he did, he couldn't be in a relationship with me. Is this also topping from the bottom? She has every right to her expectations and she had every right to say "If you do this, I won't be in a relationship with you". She isn't expecting him to change his life - she wants him to cancel a playdate. I think it's out of line because it's too early to expect commitment but it's not topping from the bottom. Like I said before: She's got the right to say she doesn't want a dom who is interested in other women. He's got the right to decide he doesn't want her and walk away. What the is the pre-collaring stage for if not getting all this stuff out of the way?

LadyIce -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/21/2007 6:41:54 PM)
I have my opinion and you have your opinion. At least I can express mine without getting nasty.

shysecrets -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/21/2007 6:43:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyIce It is topping from the bottom if she expects a Dominant to drop and change his life for her after 2 dates. She has a right to have expectations, and he has a right to do whatever he wants to do. She stated that she told him she does not want him to see the other submissive. THAT is topping from the bottom. She cant be topping from the bottom if she isnt on the bottom yet.. She isnt his sub or slave yet and there for they are equals at the moment, just like she cant reasonably ask him to not see someone if they arent in a relationship she cant be seen as his bottom yet, since they are equals there can be no topping from the bottom. If you arent on the bottom how can you top from there??? She is trying to controll the situation but since she isnt his sub yet it is just beeing controlling and really cant be topping from the bottom.

AquaticSub -> RE: when honest is a term for something else altogether (7/21/2007 6:54:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyIce I have my opinion and you have your opinion. At least I can express mine without getting nasty. Considering how much of an insult topping from the bottom is regarded as, I really don't see anything in my post that was nasty. We'll have to agree to disagree.

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