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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/27/2005 1:30:15 AM

Gauge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

I was away from this site for about 6 months and returned to find quite a bit of bickering. As we all know, flame wars have become a part of any message board and really have gotten old by now. I'm not offering judgment on the content of anyone's (repeat...anyone's) posts. I'm simply stating what I've seen (and yes, I too have played a part in this, so I'm not casting stones).

I urge all who have been here long enough to simply refrain from responding to any message that irks them...no matter how tempting to do so. There are some people who will simply not be affected by anything anyone else says so it's totally pointless to keep trying. The best thing to do is state your position on the topic (not the author) and leave it to the other readers to decide what's valuable information. This is what they will do anyway.

anthrosub

Perhaps in a nice fluffy world where the deer and the antelope play, where the temperature is a constant 80 degrees with no humidity and a constant light breeze is blowing your idea would work. Sadly, it won't.

I tend to thrive on the give and take of a conversation or debate. I am no different on here than I am in person. I debate, converse with the same passion I do on here. The wonderful thing about being online is that you get to hear a variety of opinions, some good, some bad, some idiotic. It really doesn't make much of a difference if people don't agree with me, sometimes you just have to agree to disagree.

I try not to flame, but sometimes my wit takes over and I become a drooling, possessed, pathetic creature hovering above his keyboard just reveling in the fact that I can reduce someone to a small, quivering, gelatinous mass of their former selves. Some people deserve that, others don't. Those that don't have nothing to fear from me. I try to treat people with respect, I expect the same. If someone takes the gloves off and accosts me, the game is afoot and I will respond.

Perhaps I am part of the problem, perhaps not. I try to contribute to things I am interested in and the other topics I might read but keep my opinion to myself. Ending flaming won't happen but it wouldn't hurt to try to respect others views a little more.

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/27/2005 2:15:39 AM

fillepink

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well, hell's bells, i cannot find the quote -- but someone here said:

"You cannot argue with the ignorant".

Well, if there was a pop quiz on BDSM from time to time, i'd be lucky to hold onto a "D" grade. i have been corrected here and expect i will be many times again. Reading -- especially on the net -- pales compared to real life experience (of which i still have none *sigh*).

Some people are ignorant (meaning only that there is a subject at hand they know little about); some are young and have the arrogant belief that they know everything (have one of those of my own); some are a bit dim (and still deserve respect); etc. etc.etc.

It's hard for me to imagine when i would lose my temper to such a degree that i would attack someone on the boards. i started a thread on the proposed constitutional amendment to ban gay mariage and did not receive the response i had hoped for. Some people even suggested it was a non-issue. i was upset by this; but it did not cross my mind to attack the authors.

An argument takes (at least) two people; if someone atttacked me i might respond to them by email...but i would not defend myself on the boards. it's just not a matter of public discourse as to whether i am an idiot, etc.

If someone has a habit of attacking people on the boards, rather than addressing their commentary, that will soon become apparent. i say -- ignore them -- they do not want to "play well with others". fillepink

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/27/2005 8:47:10 AM

Faramir

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I think every association has a tone and discourse level.

It could be a US Marine Corps Battalion, a social club like a local Rotary, a gaming guild - an online BDSM community - and there is this melange of voices, expectations, past history and interactions. I've been in a battalion where there was a free flow back and forth of ideas, lots of cameraderie, a level of decorum (the idea of an officer losing their temper and yelling at a brother officer would be shameful - fisticuffs unthinkable), and then rotated to another one with a very different, much coarser dynamic.

The same thing happens in internet communities. Some leadership qualities emerge even in text, so you end up with leaders in the loose, internet community, and if that leadership is generally decorous, the membership will tend to reflect that - if the leadership is very combative, well...

I think a lot of it is just the luck of what you end up with, and less a systemic result.

On a side note - I raised an amused eyebrow at all the "Oh I'm just as outspoken day to day as I am here." I guess I must be funny - I know that because I can't "ignore" or "block" the people in my community, my business peers, my clients, etc, I make more of an effort to be tactful and find creative solutions to interpersonal conflict. I'm more patient with people day to day than I am in a generally anonymous internet setting.

I may be willing to travel the state fighting in exhibitions - but I prefer not to fight with my neighbors.

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/27/2005 3:08:05 PM

anthrosub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Who determines what is "fact"? If someone believes that 2+3=4, then OK, I agree with you, they are in fact wrong. But most beliefs are more complex than that, and cannot be refuted by facts. Some people believe in God. What "facts" are you going to use to argue with them? Some people believe in one kind of political system; other people believe in another kind of political system. Those kinds of disagreements can't be resolved by appealing to "facts."

No argument from me on this. I used the term "fact" in the latter connotation (i.e., "...they are in fact wrong.") In the daily, work-a-day world we live in, everyone is divided on the issues you used as examples of hard to nail down "facts." Those sorts of debate belong in discussions where the individuals engaged are indeed educated on the subject. Unfortunately, here on the boards, there's no way to control the credibility of who's going to step in with something to say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
(Besides, there's some pot-calling-the-kettle-black here: The translation you have in your sig line is in fact wrong, and you yourself got mighty defensive when I tried to point that fact out to you.)

I will point out I confessed to my crimes in my original post. I'll take that as an oversight on your part...no biggie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
The major misapprehension, I think, is that people on here think they can (and should) try to convince each other of their opinion. That's why they get so defensive when people challenge them, and that's why they keep on arguing with people whom they're never going to convince.

Every once in a while someone has an opinion that I find interesting, and every once in a while someone even manages to convince me of their opinion. But usually that doesn't happen, and I don't think I'm more or less stubborn than the average. People are just people; they all have their own opinions; and they can get along if they drop the silly premise that everyone else has to agree with them.

I tried to say something to this effect in my reply to AAkasha (the line about biting our tongue). But you've laid it out perfectly as far as I'm concerned. The only thing I would add is people trying to convince each other of their opinion. It's like the "hall of mirrors" phenomenon where two mirrors facing each other reflect to infinity. In this case, the two mirrors are the people engaging each other. Nothing will change until one of them stops and breaks the cycle but their ego gets in the way.

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/27/2005 3:10:42 PM

anthrosub

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I hear you but I just want to say I never intended to create a "Walgreens" commercial.

anthrosub

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/27/2005 3:25:14 PM

anthrosub

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It was while reading the thread about the proposed gay marriage ban (and the same-sex marriage thread) that I was inspired to start this thread. I felt bad that your thread went off on a tangent the way it did and almost sent you an email expressing this. But I decided this thread might be a better idea.

By the way, it was I that posted the quote, "You can't argue with an ignorant person." In retrospect, I think it falls short of describing some people here. There are those who are ignorant and at the same time stubborn to educate themselves further (the old ego at play again). In this case, they are ignorant about themselves (little or no self-awareness).

I also agree about ignoring abusers. They thrive on attention and that's the only way to nip the problem at the bud.

anthrosub

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/27/2005 8:34:29 PM

Lordandmaster

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Anthro, basically I agree with you, and I think the problem is not so much that there are diverse opinions, but that some people don't know how to express themselves without insulting anyone who disagrees with them. As annoying as they are, the only way to deal with people like that is either to ignore them altogether, or point out when they're being insulting or arguing ad hominem. Sometimes they even recognize it--but of course usually they don't.

Also, if you post to an anonymous internet site, you have to have a thick skin. Otherwise, it just might not be for you. I mean that without being facetious. For some people, it's just not a satisfying way to have a conversation.

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/27/2005 8:44:59 PM

anthrosub

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Agreed...and congrats on getting one of Lady Angelika's paddles!

anthrosub

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/27/2005 11:00:09 PM

Gauge

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quote:

I hear you but I just want to say I never intended to create a "Walgreens" commercial

When I wrote my reply, I thought that it sounded like a Walgreen's commercial. This is too funny. Thanks for the laugh.

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RE: Forum Bickering - 6/28/2005 4:21:13 AM

ShiftedJewel

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quote:

pales compared to real life experience (of which i still have none *sigh*).

You know............. I know people that could help you with that!! lmao

Jewel

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