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Termyn8or -> RE: ¿ income tax ? (7/28/2007 7:45:39 AM)
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I have visited this subject before.
You CAN win this, but do not take it lightly. Using the 16th as a law does not work, it was technically never properly codified. That's like saying we don't need a law against murder because we have a right to life according to the Constitution.
There are two or three ways to beat the IRS, and each has many pitfalls. Fuck up just one little thing and you lose, and lose big. And the very first thing to remember is not to file. Around 80% of the people who beat the IRS did not file. If you file you CANNOT beat them as you have signed a contract/affidavit known as a 1040. Nobody who files ever wins unless it is a matter of certain deductions or something like that. If you sign a 1040 and say you had no income you have committed perjury.
I know someone who has a letter from the IRS comfiming that he is not a taxpayer, however he never went to tax court, they never got him to tax court. This was done by correspondence with the IRS. He had to study law for 2-3 years before being able to do this.
You see, loopholes were written into the tax code for the benefit of certain people, like international arms dealers. Drug dealers as well. Those who learn to exploit these loopholes win. Others lose, it is that simple.
Put it this way, you better cross every T and dot every I, and you need to know how to think on your feet. Every response is critical, one wrong word and they'll rule against you. And no lawyer will do this for you, even if they know how. And then it is not that easy to get them to let you represent yourself pro se. They don't like that.
And remember, if you lose it is not going to go well because you have antagonized the court. It takes alot of guts to do this. Tens of thousands of people have beat the IRS, but many more have lost. You need to have your shit together.
And if you win, you will be a target. There are certain things you can never do again. The one I know who won owned a masonry business, and in certain cities you sign that you will remit city taxes for all employees who work in that city. In those cities, he had to have the customer get a homeowner's permit for the work, or turn it down. And he has turned down some big jobs because of it. But if he signs once, just once it blows his status as a non-taxpayer.
Another interesting limitation is that it is recommended that you do not register to vote. How's that for a kick in the ass ? In the earlier days people would also voluntarily rescind their driver's licenses, but no more. As more and more states refused to give license plates to people without a driver's license, a new loophole needed to be found. It was.
Between the UCC and USC, and various other cites, some even from the IRS code it can be done. And it is a one way street. You must claim that they defrauded you because you are not a taxpayer. You have discovered the fraud and the law does not permit one to profit from fraud, if caught. You seek to rectify the fraud and demand all the taxes you ever paid to be reinbursed. Fat chance. You might get non-taxpayer status, but they are not going to send you a check.
Now here is where it gets tricky. If you prove your point, but subsequently in some manner agree to pay any income taxes at all, you are 'in the system' and now you can't get out again. This is because you are seen as to have volunteered back into the 'system'.
You will never have a regular job again, and forget getting a loan for anything. In the case of the guy I know, he made like a quarter million a year and really didn't need alot in the way of loans.
Here's the thing, the only time it pays to do this is if you make a hell of a lot of money and are self employed. But even then it is not easy. You have to be very careful even getting a bank account.
Put it this way, it can be done, but if you make even $75,000 a year it is not worth it. Call me when you get into six figures, then it might be worth it, just a little. And watch every move you make.
The guy I know who did this successfully became a target. They never got him on taxes, but he is doing 15 years in prison now for selling a dime bag of weed. Of course he antagonized that court as well. But he got busted because he was a target, and the person he thought he knew was unbeknownst to him, a disgruntled, ex-employee. He may have been a plant all along. He sold the bag and it wasn't five minutes until he got raided. I chided him about this. With all the money he makes why the fuck does he need to sell weed ? This is ridiculous.
There is indeed a fine line between insanity and genius. He had two houses, the family home in the burbs, and the other place, his party house etc., in the city where his grow room was. This ex-employee ran his mouth and told about the grow room. I say the guy should've never known about it. But this guy had some real idiotic tendencies.
He could fight his way out of tax court sure, but he sold that bag out of the family home. I'm telling you we are talking about his Wife and kids handcuffed on the floor while every personal possesion of their's was rummaged through.
I am convinced this happened because he became a target. We are not talking about machiune gun fire in his driveway, he was being watched.
So if you ever do beat the IRS, watch your back. I mean get a hat with a fucking rear view mirror. This is no joke.
People do this, they really do. And if they know what they are doing, around retirement time everything is signed out of their name already, so there is no probate. You have to know what you are doing, otherwise you are in for big trouble.
They don't tell you everything. Years ago a guy signed his driver's license with a UCC cite instead of his name. Later in court the judge asked the cop if he knew what it meant. The cop said no. Then the judge said "Case dismissed". Since then BMVs all over the country will no longer accept any non-standard signatures, even with TDC after a real signature. It worked for a while, but no more.
I think it has gravitated to the point where they simply point out that a driver's license is a contract with the state, not federal government. I am not sure how that affects their status regarding state income tax. I don't persue it because, in my opinion I don't make enough money to make it worth my while.
I know one thing that will usually work for regular people. In fact you don't even need to get into tax court. If you have owed them for a while and interest and penalties are mounting, offer them the tax itself and nothing more. Even in an audit you can do this, some agents will go for it and others won't. But then to win you have to be willing to lose. Refuse to pay the penalties and interest. Bring a copy of the Constitution to the audit. "Congress shall have the power........" OK, but it says nothing about penalties. Then with interest, say "when did the IRS becaome a bank ? I have a copy of the original incorporatrion papers filed in Deleware and there is no mention of the IRS being a bank".
Note that this does not get you out of the original tax. For most people who get behind the eightball with them it is a viable solution, but even then you have to be very careful. And it is much better to do this in the auditor's office than in court.
Anyone wants to take a crack at stopping paying taxes, good luck, you are going to need it, alot of it.
T
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