Pushing Past Safewords

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DrPleasure -> Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 7:19:19 AM)
Is it ever okay to ignore safewords? From my personal experience, I've had someone push me past my safeword only a few times and each time this happened, I was glad that she did it. This usually happened in two different ways. First, the domme would use an alternative means of giving me an out. For example, a couple of times, I was told to hold a brush in my hand and if things ever got too much for me to handle, I should drop the brush on the floor. One particular domme with whom I usually called a safeword during session did this to me and it definitely allowed me to take more than I thought. Second, I was coaxed pasted it a few times. The domme said that she thought I could handle more and that if I quit, I will regret it. Each time I was pushed past a safeword, I was so glad that I did it. Of course, there were plenty of other times that a dommes respected my safeword and we will never know what would have happened if she didn't. I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts. Is it ever okay to ignore a safeword? What are some other ways to push past them?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 7:35:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DrPleasure I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts. Is it ever okay to ignore a safeword? What are some other ways to push past them? For me, it's not ok if we've agreed that a safeword means that a scene will stop. Even if I COULD keep going and have them enjoy it- it would have broken the commitment we made to eachother. And that's not acceptable for me.

SayaNereida -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 7:38:28 AM)
You ask, "Is it ever ok to ignore safe words", by your words you already say it has been okay for you. Although it seems you are concerned that since you HAVE pushed passed them and found it enjoyable, will your Dom know what they are not to push past them; do I understand correctly? Perhaps 2 safe words; 1 is I am what I believe is my limit but would be willing to test that and STOP. I am curious about your last question: What are some other ways to push past them? What exactly are you asking here?

thetammyjo -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 8:52:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DrPleasure Is it ever okay to ignore safewords? From my personal experience, I've had someone push me past my safeword only a few times and each time this happened, I was glad that she did it. This usually happened in two different ways. First, the domme would use an alternative means of giving me an out. For example, a couple of times, I was told to hold a brush in my hand and if things ever got too much for me to handle, I should drop the brush on the floor. One particular domme with whom I usually called a safeword during session did this to me and it definitely allowed me to take more than I thought. Second, I was coaxed pasted it a few times. The domme said that she thought I could handle more and that if I quit, I will regret it. Each time I was pushed past a safeword, I was so glad that I did it. Of course, there were plenty of other times that a dommes respected my safeword and we will never know what would have happened if she didn't. I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts. Is it ever okay to ignore a safeword? What are some other ways to push past them? See I consider using the object to be the same as a verbal safeword. I personally don't like the idea of telling someone he will regret using a safeword -- that makes me reaction on the gut level to what reads like emotional coercion and I don't like that. I think it's great to tell your slave or sub that you think he/she can take more or that you'd like them to try and go a bit further in regards to soft limits. Personally I think if someone has a hard limit that I feel a need to change that might be a sign we aren't the best match. Fox had a hard limit with knives when he was in training but he himself decided he wanted to push that during the later stages of training. I never told him this but consider how important knife play is to me that would have been an acceptable difference when it came time to evaluate future ownership. I would have happy to have him as a friend or a part-time play partner but not as a slave. Now he's a smart boy so he may have picked this up on his own and decided to push it but I pray I never did anything to make he feel like he had no choice in the matter.

skareamoos -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 9:45:42 AM)
I may have alluded to something like this in a very early post (or may only have considered so doing) but I consider it criminal to ignore a safe word., and if I did use one while in bottom position and it ignored, no matter how enjoyable the result was, I would never again bottom for that lady. If one can't be trusted a little, one cannot be trusted at all. By the same token, I personally, WHEN bottoming (which has been all too infrequent as I have aged) I despise safe words, favoring, instead, a significant discussion about what I can tolereate and what I cannot. This may be because I knoiw that I would prematurely use the SW, then be angry soon after respected, or for some other flaw in my makeup, but I would rather someone trangress by using 30 clamps when we had agreed that 25 was a liomit, than by having the same person put on 26-30 after I used the SW. But that is just me, and I am no doubt a foolish old man. (Sadly, I was also foolish before most of you were born.)

Mercnbeth -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 10:54:40 AM)
quote: Is it ever okay to ignore safewords? Dr. P, As much as I appose and avoid safe-words, my answer is no. Consider that your question is actually asking this; "Is it ever okay to compromise trust?" Safe-words are a matter of trust. They should only be considered if you trust the person to honor them. By definition they are not "safe" and do not protect you from what you are trying to avoid if, at some point, they are ignored; even if they end result could be/is/was positive. In the cases is was positive to you, what would you think of the person who ignored them if it turned out bad? Would/could you ever trust them again? You're question, situation, and personal experience is another reference point for not employing safe-words. However if they are in place, 100% of the time they should be honored and the session stopped. The option? Don't "play" until you trust the person and not need words. Use the words - you have to trust them to be honored or they serve no purpose.

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 11:08:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DrPleasure Is it ever okay to ignore safewords? From my personal experience, I've had someone push me past my safeword only a few times and each time this happened, I was glad that she did it. This usually happened in two different ways. First, the domme would use an alternative means of giving me an out. For example, a couple of times, I was told to hold a brush in my hand and if things ever got too much for me to handle, I should drop the brush on the floor. One particular domme with whom I usually called a safeword during session did this to me and it definitely allowed me to take more than I thought. Second, I was coaxed pasted it a few times. The domme said that she thought I could handle more and that if I quit, I will regret it. Each time I was pushed past a safeword, I was so glad that I did it. Of course, there were plenty of other times that a dommes respected my safeword and we will never know what would have happened if she didn't. I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts. Is it ever okay to ignore a safeword? What are some other ways to push past them? The short answer is NO.......

Politesub53 -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 11:54:49 AM)
i would consider saying "i am very close to using the safeword". That lets your Mistress no She is close to it and the time to ask You to carry on is now, not when you actually yell mercy or whatever. [;)]

MistressSassy66 -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 1:50:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DrPleasure Is it ever okay to ignore safewords? From my personal experience, I've had someone push me past my safeword only a few times and each time this happened, I was glad that she did it. This usually happened in two different ways. First, the domme would use an alternative means of giving me an out. For example, a couple of times, I was told to hold a brush in my hand and if things ever got too much for me to handle, I should drop the brush on the floor. One particular domme with whom I usually called a safeword during session did this to me and it definitely allowed me to take more than I thought. Second, I was coaxed pasted it a few times. The domme said that she thought I could handle more and that if I quit, I will regret it. Each time I was pushed past a safeword, I was so glad that I did it. Of course, there were plenty of other times that a dommes respected my safeword and we will never know what would have happened if she didn't. I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts. Is it ever okay to ignore a safeword? What are some other ways to push past them? New submissives(even if not new to the scene,but new to Me) are regularly tested to say safewords until they are comfortable with them after that...I will push submissives to say Red (stop for a few minutes),On a regular basis if they are the type that can handle it and its been agreed upon. Only a few have I pushed past that and it was a mutual agreement before hand. I find sayings things like you can take just one more works,they usually end up taking several and not just one.Another important part for Me is reassuring them that they have done well even if they had to stop.Nothing says you cant try again later on or another day even.

AAkasha -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 1:55:21 PM)
Don't use safewords and this won't be a problem. I think safewords are highly overrated and just a protocol people like to get all excited about using because they think it makes them twoo bdsmers. I use good old fashioned communication and knowing my partner to judge when it's safe to stop or keep going. I am not going to rely on a silly codeword or whole series of codewords when clear communication cuts down the risk of misinterpretting something. Besides, with all the hoopla about safewords, many subs are afraid to use them because they think it makes them appear weak. If I am involved intensely enough with someone on a physical and emotional level that they may need a quick exit, I damn well better know their body language and communication abilities beyond a code word. The only time I use safewords is when roleplaying heavy resistance stuff, when my partner can be expected to say, often, things like "Stop, you're hurting me," or "I can't take this any more." In this case we set up a code word or signal, but to be honest, even then, I can tell far earlier than he can if we're heading down a bad path. That's what good dominants do. Akasha

MistressSassy66 -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 2:24:18 PM)
Your right AAkasha...using safewords doesnt make you a 'twoo' BDSMer. It makes you someone who is aware of the protocols MOST people follow. Not everyone needs them or follows them thats upto them. I know when a worm is going to say red,I do it for fun,to test them. they are not weak by saying red,and BTW they could feel weak saying any word even stop,I encourage them to use them,to prove that it doesnt make them weak. I personally dont hear words like stop or dont and an ouch makes Me giggle. For someone new I think safewords are a good idea,but thats only My personal opinion,which is neither right or wrong,just how I do things.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 2:37:19 PM)
No means no unless you've negotiated otherwise. A safeword means "all play stops" unless you've negotiated otherwise. If your Domme pushed you past it without negotiation, in my opinion, that's wrong...and shows that there's been clear miscommunication on both of your parts. You need to know yourself well enough to be clear about what boundaries you would like to have pushed and what you don't. She needs to respect your boundaries enough so that you learn to know yourself, grow and ASK for what you need. Master Fire

MistressDolly -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 2:44:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DrPleasure Is it ever okay to ignore safewords? Generally I respect limits; however, if I'm inclined to push past them, I would tell him beforehand.

Politesub53 -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 3:01:57 PM)
Personally speaking, a safeword that means " STOP " would make me a little more confident when trying something new or something i am getting used to. Once i am at that stage then maybe i could say okay, i trust You enough to know when to stop. i know people will say i should not play with people i dont trust, but what i am talking about here is more about unlimited trust, to allow myself to go deeper into my submission. [;)]

MistressCass -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 3:03:30 PM)
IMO it is NEVER ok to ignore safewords.......heart attacks, head aches, muscle spasms? You might not even have the last knot tied or the flogger properly "groomed" and have your sub safe word on you.......and you better listen......better to listen and find out why their safe word was invoked then to explain to the police/EMT why there are ropes on the wrists of the unconcious body before them. Does it mean I scramble to untie knots the second I hear "red"? No. But I stop tying more and ask the person uttering such a word what is wrong, what needs to happen to get "green" again, etc. Sometimes they need a break for a few seconds to catch their breath.....sometimes they need me to stop. Totally. And if I want them to respect me, I have to respect them. Stop means Stop. And it is illegal to NOT stop when requested. At best it's assualt, at worst it's rape. Have you considered the use of a "Slow" word? Something that can be pushed past without your losing respect and trust in the Dominant and your safe word for the instant you really really really need the stimulatoin to stop? PS I do have my subs test the safe word several times so they are comfortable uttering it. No one has yet to use it on me, except when they have been instructed to "test" the word we agreed on. I guess I am just too soft......Grin.

Politesub53 -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 3:23:48 PM)
I think the two drawbacks would be if a submissive starts to use the safe word when it isnt " Essential " Thereby making the whole point of having one useless. Or when the Dominant ignores it and losses the trust of the submissive, which may have taken weeks to build. There is nothing wrong in people not using safewords if they have enough trust in each other. If a couple reach this level then the Mistress should be able to spot any medical emergencies. [;)]

slaveluci -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 3:36:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DrPleasure Is it ever okay to ignore safewords? From my personal experience, I've had someone push me past my safeword only a few times and each time this happened, I was glad that she did it. This usually happened in two different ways. First, the domme would use an alternative means of giving me an out. For example, a couple of times, I was told to hold a brush in my hand and if things ever got too much for me to handle, I should drop the brush on the floor. One particular domme with whom I usually called a safeword during session did this to me and it definitely allowed me to take more than I thought. Second, I was coaxed pasted it a few times. The domme said that she thought I could handle more and that if I quit, I will regret it. Each time I was pushed past a safeword, I was so glad that I did it. Of course, there were plenty of other times that a dommes respected my safeword and we will never know what would have happened if she didn't. I'd be interested in hearing other people's thoughts. Is it ever okay to ignore a safeword? What are some other ways to push past them? Good question. You may also be interested in this thread where I asked if people's safe words had always been respected. SimplyMichael's answers (especially post #29) are especially appropriate to your question: http://www.collarchat.com/m_1118065/mpage_1/key_safe%2Cword/tm.htm Oh, and LA provided a ton of other links in post #4. Shocking, I know[;)]. luci

rob425 -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 3:41:45 PM)
I just use the generic 2 safe words Yellow and Red. Yellow: slow down let me breathe Red: I want out NOW!!! Two safe words is perfect for most people

burningdesires47 -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 4:03:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DrPleasure Is it ever okay to ignore safewords? Short answer is: NO Longer answer: I have a safe word for a reason. I'm intelligent enough not to use it if I don't have to. I'm also intelligent enough to communicate my limits before we hit them. I've only had to use my safewords when my limits weren't being respected to begin with, when the trust was already broken, but if I have negotiated a "stop" safe word with someone and they think it would be "cool" or "beneficial" to just try and push past it... Fuck that. I know my limits better than someone who isn't living in my body can. If you want a safe word that is just a signal to check in with you, then negotiate it that way. But to me, saying a safe word when you really don't mean it is lying and manipulative. And when is that ever OK?

twistedkytten -> RE: Pushing Past Safewords (7/26/2007 4:14:15 PM)
this one does not have safewords with her Master, but we spoke for a couple of years before it became physical. there have been times, when she didn't think she could take it a single second more, and to her surprise, He responded, only pushing a little further each time, because of this, the limits that were before, have lengthened maybe just a little but as time goes on, she has realized there is an inner strength she has discovered that grows from these experiences with her Master that she has been able to apply and use in other situations outside the safety of Him.

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