BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life

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BitaTruble -> BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:06:41 AM)
For the purpose of this post BDSM is defined as bondage, discipline and sadomasochism (actually that's the way I always define it, but I digress). If you want to define it as something else, more power to you, but this is my OP and I'm speaking on this subject as it pertains to my viewpoints. I absolutely refuse to argue semantics on this one, but do feel free to argue amongst yourselves. [8D] I don't even have any questions.. I'm just putting a bit of myself and my views out there because I feel like doing so. BDSM isn't and shouldn't be the big umbrella. It's too narrow in focus but for some reason it has become almost a catch all for anything that's not vanilla. Well, we already have a catch all for anything that's not vanilla.. and that's 'alternative'. BDSM is a subset of that, just as is M/s, D/s, leather, gay, goth, cross-dressing, spankos, vamp etc. If it's not vanilla, it's alternative to vanilla.. but that does not equal BDSM. I totally get why Goreans don't want to be lumped into the BDSM category. Most Goreans talk about being Gorean based on their philosophy not on the number of scantily clad kajira running around their homestones. There are hundreds of different ways to live life based on a philosophy but we don't differentiate them from vanilla, so why should Gor be any different? If I live by the philosophy of, say, Taoism, that doesn't mean that I'm into BDSM. I certainly wouldn't say that Taoism is something alternative though by no means is it a philosophy which is lived by the vast majority. Or, perhaps I live by an objectivist philosophy. Does that make me BDSM? Not just no, but hell no. It's rather ridiculous to suppose such a thing. Some Goreans own slaves. Some objectivists own slaves. Some Taoists own slaves.. all pure coincidence. Nothing more, nothing less. Cross-dressers are cross-dressers. Some of them are into BDSM, some aren't. Goth girls are goth girls and there are times when they may appear to be into BDSM based on their clothing choices, but such does not make them BDSM.. it just makes them snazzy dressers. ::chuckles:: I partake of all the elements of BDSM. I adore bondage, really get off on s/m, discipline is good for my character and I embrace is as a means of growth but the life I live is M/s under the umbrella of alternative. I identify with old school leather, under the umbrella of alternative. It's how I was introduced to my true nature, so I retain a fondness and familial comfort with leather. One of these days when my bones are too brittle for impact, my mind can't wrap around a good mindfuck, my wrists are too weak to hold a flogger.. I'll give up the kinky parts and live as a Taoist, objectivist, humanist or whatever philosophy I deem to be fitting for me.. and I'll still identify with leather and I will still live M/s under the umbrella of alternative as the style of life which speaks to me the most.. .. unless of course it all changes. Happy Friday, everyone. Celeste

Stephann -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:20:16 AM)
Hi Celeste, While you're spot on, 'Alternative' lifestyles have come to be synonomous with BDSM. If I want a kinky girlfriend, that doesn't mean my relationship with her is a BDSM one; it could be very vanilla indeed. I'd still expect to find a girl like that, on a BDSM site. I guess what I'm really asking, is what does the distinction have to do with the price of milk? What practical use is there in this particular semantic? Stephan

mistoferin -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:25:52 AM)
I soooo agree with you Celeste. It really drives me kinda batty when people use it as a catch-all phrase. Most often it is the inclusion of M/s or D/s, but yeah....it seems that more and more often it is expanded to include everything but the kitchen sink.

LaTigresse -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:31:03 AM)
Hello Celeste, nice to see your beautiful face hanging out here again. I love what you wrote and it clearly defines what has already been in my own head. It can be frustrating to see so much that gets lumped together when there can be some vast differences in individual interests and preferences. All to often we know what we want, what interests us, yet get upset when others don't agree or see things our way. Not having stopped to realize how vast an array of things have been shoved under the same umbrella. It can take time and patience to distinguish and explain to others how we, as individuals differ, and to find the similarities that are shared. I think the key is to remember the facts of what you have written. Especially when communicating with others who's interests may be shoved under that same umbrella as ours and do not realize that they do not necessarily have to be together. That not sharing an interest does not make one wrong or right, just different.

domiguy -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:33:01 AM)
So what does this have to do with the price of a flogger in France?

BitaTruble -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:34:51 AM)
Hi Stephann, Basically it comes down to inclusive vs exclusive. Somehow BDSM became something it's not and attracts those who don't really want to be here. I think that's a shame because it's going to draw in a lot of folks who would be better served looking elsewhere to find their fulfillment. Celeste edited for typo

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:38:28 AM)
Yup. I use "kink" most of the time and "alternative" otherwise. I'm all about the inclusive. When I use bdsm, it means I'm discussing bdsm- and that's actually a fairly narrow list of things compared to everything in the "kink" pile. I love the title of the thread, too.

BitaTruble -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:41:04 AM)
Mist and LaT.. that's it exactly. :) I have no problem with anyone who wants to come on down to the dungeon, get a thrill on or splash around in the kink vats or anything else, but when someone wanders down there looking for a chat on Gardening, they are going to be sadly disappointed. Celeste

Stephann -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:42:35 AM)
I disagree. I don't think making a community larger causes finding fulfillment within it more difficult. If anythign, it adds a weight of social legitimacy and power to groups that, on their own, would likely be neither heard, nor seen. Consider the gay rights movement. If gay men refused didn't associate with lesbians, and neither associated with bisexual women, who wouldn't associate with transgenders, we'd be back to 1950. It is their unified voice that lent them strength, and became a real factor for social change. When they're done with their marches and meetings, they're still free to splinter off into their own sub-groups. I believe that there are certain groups that, as a specific subset of alternative lifestyles, would not likely thrive without their association to the larger Alt Lif community (under the heading BDSM.) Cross dressing, for example, is almost exclusively a male activity, with the focus being on being found attractive to females. Females new to Alt Lif's aren't likely to seek out cross dressers specifically; I believe it's an acquired taste, one that wouldn't likely to be acquired so easily if everyone was expected to segregate to their own respective spaces and play party. I think the AL community benefits from their greater numbers, in terms of organization and social voice. Once within the fold, it's not too difficult to learn the ropes (so to speak) and identify what specific interests we have. My two cents, of course. Stephan

BitaTruble -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:43:28 AM)
::chuckles:: Thanks LA. I do use the terms the same way. Celeste

domiguy -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:48:53 AM)
What if the chat is about making his sub do the gardening as punishment? Then does gardening become relevant....Probably not. Why would a dungeon need to be a part of bdsm? Why even mention it? You can cut out all of the idle shit till you get down to the core components....And then I actually wonder if there really is a dynamic that is there at all? Exhibitionism doesn't really have anything to do with bdsm....Either does the sense of community.....Where are you willing to draw the line?

LaTigresse -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:50:11 AM)
Now now Domi, not everyone does rosebush torture.

BitaTruble -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 11:52:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann I disagree. I don't think making a community larger causes finding fulfillment within it more difficult. If anythign, it adds a weight of social legitimacy and power to groups that, on their own, would likely be neither heard, nor seen. ::snipped for brevity's sake:: I have no problem with agreeing to disagree. I'm not talking about AL being exclusive, I'm talking about BDSM being labeled as 'the' alternative to all things so that when a cross-dresser comes into BDSM looking for all the other cross-dressers, their pool is going to be very narrow to find like-minded partners. Gay guys don't go hang out at the Savvoy because they won't find any gay guys there. Lesbians will go hang out at the Savvoy because it's chalk full of other lesbians. Gay guys and lesbians are under the umbrella of homosexual, but when they seek out others to share their lives, they are better served to go to where those others are and not try to find pencils in an ink shop. No doubt, you'll find a very small selection of pencils in an ink shop.. but you'd find a hell of a lot more if you go to a pencil shop. Celeste

domiguy -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 12:02:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Now now Domi, not everyone does rosebush torture. lol....I understand....Dungeons have their place. Just don't understand the driving force behind the op....the end all beat all is so what?

earthycouple -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 12:12:05 PM)
Go Celeste! I'm with ya... I have nothing poetic to add, but damn I'm on board this train!

beargonewild -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 12:28:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann I disagree. I don't think making a community larger causes finding fulfillment within it more difficult. If anythign, it adds a weight of social legitimacy and power to groups that, on their own, would likely be neither heard, nor seen. ::snipped for brevity's sake:: I have no problem with agreeing to disagree. I'm not talking about AL being exclusive, I'm talking about BDSM being labeled as 'the' alternative to all things so that when a cross-dresser comes into BDSM looking for all the other cross-dressers, their pool is going to be very narrow to find like-minded partners. Gay guys don't go hang out at the Savvoy because they won't find any gay guys there. Lesbians will go hang out at the Savvoy because it's chalk full of other lesbians. Gay guys and lesbians are under the umbrella of homosexual, but when they seek out others to share their lives, they are better served to go to where those others are and not try to find pencils in an ink shop. No doubt, you'll find a very small selection of pencils in an ink shop.. but you'd find a hell of a lot more if you go to a pencil shop. Celeste If I may throw my 2 cents in, I can generally agree though also I see this being an area of confusion in using the label of Alternative Lifestyle. This label is also used to denote homosexuals, swingers, cross dressers, poloy relationships, etc. Alternative lifestyle has commonly been applied to relationships which fall out of society's conception of what they define as standard, eg- straight heterosexual couples. footnote: here in Canada, lesbians hang out at Canadian Tire and gay men are found at Home depot! grins

LaTigresse -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 12:38:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Now now Domi, not everyone does rosebush torture. lol....I understand....Dungeons have their place. Just don't understand the driving force behind the op....the end all beat all is so what? Okay DG, let me put it in terms you might get. Lets say there is this girl with this really hot ass, you walk up to her and say "are you into banging ass" She turns and, much to your surprise, says "hell yeah!! In fact there is this party I am going to tonight, you wanna come along and bang my ass?" Domiguy gets allllllll excited and jumps up and down, frothing at the mouth, pitching a tent in his drawers and barely manages to squeak out...."y y y yes" Domiguy follows Ms Hotass to said party. In his excitement he totally misses all the whips and chains and ass beating going on around him because his domieyes are focused on hotass and his pants tent is throbbing in anticipation. Ms Hotass gets to a nice little padded bench, bends over and says "show me what you've got big boy!!" Domiguy drops his drawers, squirts on the lube and dives right into banging Ms Hotass. Who in turn screams bloody murder, turns around and drops poor Domiguy to the floor with one well placed left hook all the while bellowing "you god damned PERVERT!! What the hell do you think you are doing?" while pointing to a vast array of ass "banging" implements (paddles, floggers, canes, etc ) hanging on the wall. " I said you could BANG on my ass, not fuck my ass, you disgusting mofo!!" Poor Domiguy never saw it coming. I forgot to mention how disappointed........and deflated.........domidong was.

ELUSIVE1 -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 12:50:12 PM)
I agree with LA...I identify myself as a kinkster...and while I do enjoy ALL the bondage, discipline, sado-masochism...I enjoy other things as well...that is why the 'lifestyle' group I belong to and am most actively involved in is a "Hedonist" group that while it is exclusive in that the founders have to meet and invite new members...it doesn't exclude people because they have more 'diversified' kinks than one who identifies solely with bdsm...

domiguy -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 1:06:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Now now Domi, not everyone does rosebush torture. lol....I understand....Dungeons have their place. Just don't understand the driving force behind the op....the end all beat all is so what? Okay DG, let me put it in terms you might get. Lets say there is this girl with this really hot ass, you walk up to her and say "are you into banging ass" She turns and, much to your surprise, says "hell yeah!! In fact there is this party I am going to tonight, you wanna come along and bang my ass?" Domiguy gets allllllll excited and jumps up and down, frothing at the mouth, pitching a tent in his drawers and barely manages to squeak out...."y y y yes" Domiguy follows Ms Hotass to said party. In his excitement he totally misses all the whips and chains and ass beating going on around him because his domieyes are focused on hotass and his pants tent is throbbing in anticipation. Ms Hotass gets to a nice little padded bench, bends over and says "show me what you've got big boy!!" Domiguy drops his drawers, squirts on the lube and dives right into banging Ms Hotass. Who in turn screams bloody murder, turns around and drops poor Domiguy to the floor with one well placed left hook all the while bellowing "you god damned PERVERT!! What the hell do you think you are doing?" while pointing to a vast array of ass "banging" implements (paddles, floggers, canes, etc ) hanging on the wall. " I said you could BANG on my ass, not fuck my ass, you disgusting mofo!!" Poor Domiguy never saw it coming. It could happen that way....Distinct possiblity....Or....Pauline pooper says, "Hey domiguy, how would you like to tap this?"...While lifting up the back of her tight, plaid skirt....Domiguy staring at those beautiful cheeks, thinks about all the obligations he has made that night...looks back at that tight ass and says....."Damn straight. Where To?" She continues by saying, "In fact there is this party I am going to tonight, you wanna come along and bang my ass?" So we go to the party the Domidong is in full salute of her pristine pooper....I walk in.....I say to Pauline Pooper, "What in the fuck is going on here?....Man, I've been to the Wisconsin State Fair, but at least those motherfuckers had enough sense not to dress up in black leather....for Pete's cock sucking sake, they look like black bratwurst about to errupt form their natural black leather casings....I don't know about you, but let's get the fuck outta here!...These motherfuckers are wacked!!!!" So Pauline Pooper and Domiguy hail a cab and head back towards the Domicile.....Of course me with a fist full of Pauline's hair and her with a throat full of angry Domidong. She enters...I strip off her clothes....Ball gag, spreader bars, nipple clamps, butt plug in place and flogger in hand...After a ten minutes of flogging....I quickly remove the plug and insert the Domidong.....She screams, "you god damned PERVERT!! What the hell do you think you are doing?" while pointing to a vast array of ass "banging" implements (paddles, floggers, canes, etc ) hanging on the wall. " I said you could BANG on my ass, not fuck my ass, you disgusting mofo!!" She then turns to deliver a left hook, when I squeal out, (and by "squealing" I mean this in only the way a Dom could do such a thing and still be viewed by all as one Hell of a Dom) "Rutabaga!!!" Which everyone know is the universal "safeword" and she immediately stops her swing and apologizes for trying to kick my ass and let's me resume my plundering of her ass and then finishes me off with a blow job and then gets me a beer and a massage. We depart she tells me she loves me, I say I'll call her soon....Four days later she hasn't heard from me and posts on CM what she should do about my absence. In reality why would flogging be considered an aspect of bdsm where ass play would not?

LaTigresse -> RE: BDSM: The junk drawer for alternative life (7/27/2007 1:14:51 PM)
After much laughter and coughing from laughter.....wiping tears from cheeks. To SOME people it is, but to lump it together and ASS-U-ME it is for everyone........danger danger. I had to change the assume just because it really seemed more fitting in this particular context.[:D]

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