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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/27/2007 7:46:33 PM   
Eru


Posts: 15
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline 		"Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? "

No.
All things being equal the older person has much more knowledge and experience to draw on and should be smarter.
But all things are not equal, an intelligent young person will be much smarter than a below average older person. However intelligence is not governed by age, it is a potential determined by genetics that may never be reached.

As for causes followed by the young, they often show wisdom benefits from age. The young are prey for political groups, they are naive, idealistic and often easily indoctrinated or manoeuvred so their ideals seem to match the cause.

"I can sense a kind of "disenchantment" among young people today with the current state of the nation. (And they're not alone!)
How would you explain this phenomenom?"

Exactly like that. Disenchantment of young people being used for political gain. I'm not surprise by the old fashioned values bit, and it would surprise me even less if this guy was pushing the faith and family values line as well?
Without knowing anything about the guy or his policies, I'd certainly take a close look at his marketing and background before I could see anything besides basic political campaigning.

Was there anything in particular which makes this guy stand out, or just what you said in the OP?

"E-String, I disagree with you there.
We aren't seeing this phenomenon (That's a tough word to spell correctly!) in the Clinton or Abbadabba campaigns or any of the other candidates campaigns. "

But we do see that phenomenon in other areas. P.E.T.A. and other green groups rely on this tactic. Especially with young, dumb performers.

"But I strongly doubt the validity of using hits to a politician's website as a measure of intelligence. "

I think it is the perfect measure of intelligence, if you use it you're not intelligent.

"My experience with a lot of older people is that while they possess greater experience and perhaps knowledge, the cohort which grew up in the post World War 2 era (my parents age) seem to seldom think things through to the logical conclusion."

Sinergy,
You are probably comparing the older mindless masses to younger intelligent people? Or you might be overestimating the logic of your own conclusions?
Also people of different ages will look dumber. Take an average person today and put them in ancient Egypt and they would be a god, simply because they would be aware of more logical conclusions than people of that time. The difference might not be as big with your parents, but that might be what you're seeing?
The sense of entitlement you speak of, I would have thought it ran much deeper in the american psyche than just the post WW II generation? You can't ignore the christian fanaticism of the U.S. either, and the fact that mythology comes from the mindset of being entitled to all existence. Also from a non American perspective, I can't see any change in the general American attitude.

"I'm not exactly sure how you can claim that the older generation is very smart.. I mean they did manage to elect us into the mess that we are now didn't they?"

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" Mark Twain

"The oldest culture on the planet is ruled by adolescents.  "

What culture? With short life spans our adolescents could be their middle age?
It must be a unique culture, as most old cultures valued old age becasue high death rates meant very few lasted that long, and record keeping meant old people.

"I asked people in public places (supermarkets, malls, etc) if they had voted for Clinton.
Funny thing, I must have asked well over 100 people and only 2 (Two) people would admit to voting for Clinton!
I suspect that after Bush leaves I'll get the same result. "

Just a crazy idea, was it random? Did you pick which supermarkets and malls (not many to only get 100 people, sounds like one mall), and did you pick which people? Also what was your appearance like, did some people ignore you or try to get away?

"Younger people are far more able to think freely and creatively. "

Really? I have found there is nothing like knowledge to free the mind and inspire creativity. In fact I can remember being young and frustrated at not knowing how to make ideas work better, simply through lack of knowledge or experience.
I'm sorry that at 21 you feel the best is behind you, but if you aquire a thirst for knowledge I'm sure the enthusiasm will come back.

"They are able to analyze and act as they always have- though they have significantly greater difficulty thinking outside of those thought processes, almost always to the extent that they can not even realize when something deviates from their normal analyzation. "

I think you are confusing age with intelligence levels, and these people would never have been more than they currently are. As kids they would have been set in their ways as well and unable to look for alternatives. I have known many older people who were more capable of lateral thinking than an average person of any age. And sometimes young people just have a blank spot when it comes to knowledge or experience which stops them from seeing an alternative.

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/27/2007 8:13:54 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

The more I learn about him the more I like him too.
He couldn't be more different than the BUMS who are in there now!


You are one jaded guy,Popeye.Have some faith.Not every guy in politics is a bum.But with so many bums,it`s hard to tell.

Still,I think conservative republican Dr. Ron Paul has integrity.He proves this at every debate.I hope he does well.If he were to win,I`d consider voting for him in the general.

I heard Cindy Sheehan(today on the radio) announce ,that she`s running against Nancy Pelosi,in California.There`s someone else,who has integrity.




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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/27/2007 8:14:22 PM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		You feel smarts- the capacity to think- grows with age?  Surely, you must concede that this is not always true- it's well known both that the elderly are often senile and that people tend to be slower learns as the years progress.

How might you address this?  Where do you feel that the ability to think slows?  Where do you feel it levels off?  Where do you feel it begins to decline?  Or do I assume too much, and you would hold to the point that the ability to think continues to increase with age, regardless of the senility argument?

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/27/2007 8:26:00 PM   
luckydog1


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Status: offline 		Thompson, you keep refering to this "tribe".... what are they called?  They sound interesting, and I would like to learn more....

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/27/2007 9:15:02 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn


Ron Paul is running afoul with Dennis Kucinich logic ... speak what people want to hear, and they will vote for you ... reality be damned.
 


Would you care to explain and provide more specifics?

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/27/2007 11:04:38 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Eru, you bring up some good points and questions.
It was over a period of about 2-3 months that I asked people in public if they voted for Clinton.
And it was in shopping malls, restaurants, bars, supermarkets etc. All different ones, and I dress respectably. I look like a middle class, middle aged man who favors expensive cowboy boots and LL Bean clothing.(expensive but lasts forever)
I don't think I scared anyone.
It was just an informal "survey" on my part and I enjoy doing things like that! I have no problem talking to "strangers" as there's no "strangers" in my book, only friends I haven't met yet.
I create slogans for bumperstickers too.
I guess you could call me a "Political Junky"
And, you should probably take a look at Ron Paul's site to see what you think.
I like his positions on a lot of different subjects, but not all.
I'm an isolationist, I don't believe in foreign aid, the "U.N.", "Globalisation, US Troops in more than 130 countries, out of control immigration to the U.S., all these "trade" deals, and I think our govt. should mind it's own business a LOT more and get back to our Constitution.
I was surprised to see so many young people also agreeing on these things!
I hope that helps you out.

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/27/2007 11:23:58 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		They sound like some self-referential anthropologist's fantasy.  There is no such thing as "the world's oldest culture."  Culture is constantly changing.  And even if, for the sake of argument, one were to grant the ridiculous notion that the culture he's talking about has never changed, you could never prove that it's the oldest in the world because you have no way of knowing how people behaved six thousand years ago.  The best you could possibly say is that their material culture (their tools, artifacts, etc.) hasn't changed.  But culture and material culture are by no means the same thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Thompson, you keep refering to this "tribe".... what are they called?  They sound interesting, and I would like to learn more....

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 12:40:42 AM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		Actually there is a tribe.  Markers have been traced to central africa as the "origin" of man on planet earth.  i think its pretty reasonable that the first or oldest humans on earth were the first or oldest culture.  they are still around today.  Arifacts drawings text etc certainly do tell you what a culture is/was like.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

They sound like some self-referential anthropologist's fantasy.  There is no such thing as "the world's oldest culture."  Culture is constantly changing.  And even if, for the sake of argument, one were to grant the ridiculous notion that the culture he's talking about has never changed, you could never prove that it's the oldest in the world because you have no way of knowing how people behaved six thousand years ago.  The best you could possibly say is that their material culture (their tools, artifacts, etc.) hasn't changed.  But culture and material culture are by no means the same thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Thompson, you keep refering to this "tribe".... what are they called?  They sound interesting, and I would like to learn more....



_____________________________

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 1:44:27 AM   
yearn2bslave


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Status: offline 		Curious,
Obviously injury or illness can have a negetive effect on someones intelligence. A young person with brain injuries from some sporting accident is just as screwed as a senile old person. And speaking of injuries, how smart are young people with cars?
Yes the young learn quickly, actually the very young learn quickly, it's a biological necessity. Does that make them smart? No, in fact the need to learn quickly comes from not knowing and needing to.
But my point is not that age equals intelligence. I think one of the first things I learnt in school was that age had nothing to do with intelligence. If we look at the individual, will you be smarter in ten years or not? Without injury your intelligence will be the same, but hopefully your knowledge and experience will have increased combining with your natural intelligence making you smarter. If you are not smarter in ten years, I wouldn't be telling anyone about it.
The individuals intelligence is the only concern, not their age. However the young have to be very intelligent to compete with older less intelligent people, to make up for the gaps in knowledge and experience. It's easier for an old person to look smart in a group of young people than the other way around, generally. There will always be really dumb old people and really smart young ones.

"I don't think I scared anyone"

I didn't mean scare as much as social cliques. With only 100 hundred people in any survey an immediate concern is variety, especially if there has only been one data collector. And yeah, I think all this every time I see surveys and poles, along with how were the questions asked.

"And, you should probably take a look at Ron Paul's site to see what you think.
I like his positions on a lot of different subjects, but not all.
I'm an isolationist, I don't believe in foreign aid, the "U.N.", "Globalisation"

Oh I don't think I'll bother with his website if this is the tone of it. Globalisation and forgein aid are unavoidable progressions of social evolution, the only way to get away from them is to collapse civilisation and enter another dark age.

"I was surprised to see so many young people also agreeing on these things!"

I'm not. As I said this is a common tactic of green groups. Young people disillusioned and wanting to do something, so show them an evil government (sound familiar?), international corporation and say this is the enemy, we need to get back to simpler times (and the simpler times are always outside living memory and a wonderful utopia that was foolishly left behind instead of grown out of). With the gap between the limits of our knowledge and the populations understanding of it, it is no wonder so many people are wanting simpler times. It is also no wonder so many people are into new religions, or rehashed old ones. Again back to simpler times. If you really want something to worry about, forget war and climate and worry about the knowledge gap which could easily assist a new dark age.

Lordandmaster,
More to the point the oldest culture on earth would be one of our ancestors, not us.

"Actually there is a tribe.  Markers have been traced to central africa as the "origin" of man on planet earth.  i think its pretty reasonable that the first or oldest humans on earth were the first or oldest culture.  they are still around today."

Name? Anyone? Also I doubt any culture exists unchanged for 6000 years and survives.

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 1:47:17 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Actually there is a tribe.  Markers have been traced to central africa as the "origin" of man on planet earth.  i think its pretty reasonable that the first or oldest humans on earth were the first or oldest culture.  they are still around today.  Arifacts drawings text etc certainly do tell you what a culture is/was like.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

They sound like some self-referential anthropologist's fantasy.  There is no such thing as "the world's oldest culture."  Culture is constantly changing.  And even if, for the sake of argument, one were to grant the ridiculous notion that the culture he's talking about has never changed, you could never prove that it's the oldest in the world because you have no way of knowing how people behaved six thousand years ago.  The best you could possibly say is that their material culture (their tools, artifacts, etc.) hasn't changed.  But culture and material culture are by no means the same thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Thompson, you keep refering to this "tribe".... what are they called?  They sound interesting, and I would like to learn more....




Realone, there's a little controversy on whether "central Africa" is the location of the "origin" of human life.
The skulls that Dr. Lewis Leakey found are simply the oldest artifacts found, *so far.*
So that doesn't really demonstrate any type of "definitive" proof.
You may get an argument from Chinese scientists as well.
And I've read (speculation?) that there were whole advanced human populations millions of years ago that were wiped out by natural  causes. Floods, earthquakes, volcanos? (Atlantis?)
Or possably a shift in the poles more likely. Something like that would shift whole continents and destroy everything.
But I don't know how someone could proove that.
There wouldn't even be any skulls or bones left after say,...6 million years never mind artifacts. ("Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.")
To be quite honest with you I don't think we'll ever know where the origins of life took place.
Dr. Leaky was at the vanguard of science, ....in the 1930's.
The Aztec calender ends on Dec 21st, 2012. It just ends.
Some are speculating that we could be due for (another) shift in the polls then and maybe some scientist will be digging my skull up in the future and I'll be "the oldest."
"The origins of life started 1 1/2 million years ago in Panozoa (South Carolina) in a semi tropical climate near an ocean."
If the poles were to shift we'd all have fun for about 60 seconds and the earth would be unrecognisable to us.
Whole continents shifted, mountains popping up in desserts and oceans, oceans being dispersed.
It would be the "Greatest Show on Earth" and there'd be noone to film it!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 7/28/2007 2:06:35 AM >

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 1:51:43 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		No, actually, those populations weren't human.  They were alien life forms that colonized earth millions of years before the carbon-based life forms we know today.  No one knows why they left.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

And I've read (speculation?) that there were whole advanced human populations millions of years ago that were wiped out by natural  causes. Floods, earthquakes, volcanos? (Atlantis?)

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 2:02:34 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Actually there is a tribe.  Markers have been traced to central africa as the "origin" of man on planet earth.  i think its pretty reasonable that the first or oldest humans on earth were the first or oldest culture.  they are still around today.  Arifacts drawings text etc certainly do tell you what a culture is/was like.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

They sound like some self-referential anthropologist's fantasy.  There is no such thing as "the world's oldest culture."  Culture is constantly changing.  And even if, for the sake of argument, one were to grant the ridiculous notion that the culture he's talking about has never changed, you could never prove that it's the oldest in the world because you have no way of knowing how people behaved six thousand years ago.  The best you could possibly say is that their material culture (their tools, artifacts, etc.) hasn't changed.  But culture and material culture are by no means the same thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Thompson, you keep refering to this "tribe".... what are they called?  They sound interesting, and I would like to learn more....




Realone, there's a little controversy on whether "central Africa" is the location of the "origin" of human life.
The artifacts and skulls that Dr. Lewis Leaky found are simply the oldest artifacts found, *so far.*
So that doesn't really demonstrate any type of "definitive" proof.
You may get an argument from Chinese scientists as well.
And I've read (speculation?) that there were whole advanced human populations millions of years ago that were wiped out by natural  causes. Floods, earthquakes, volcanos? (Atlantis?)
Or possably a shift in the poles more likely. Something like that would shift whole continents and destroy everything.
There wouldn't even be any skulls or bones left after say,...6 million years never mind artifacts. ("Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.")
To be quite honest with you I don't think we'll ever know where the origins of life took place.
Dr. Leaky was at the vanguard of science, ....in the 1930's.



i was thinking along the lines of people as we know it today.

i thought they were down to the final marker or least common denominator if you will with that tribe.  i suppose its entirely possible that other ttribes existed millions of years ago, it would be interesting to test their markers and draw a correlation.

Then we have another little problem... if the markers cannot be connected and we have the oldest kown tribe to man accounted for leading to life as we know it today,  what will the creationsits do with the creation issue?  Say that god created the universe and man a couple times?


_____________________________

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 2:17:02 AM   
yearn2bslave


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Status: offline 		Popeye,
There isn't much left of ealry humans, but they were not advanced. Our civilisation will leave remains for a very long time and polar shifts won't change that.

Realone,
Oh I think the creationists have a lot more to worry about. Well the ones still alive anyway, many creationist civilisations have already drifted off into history.

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 2:53:35 AM   
bignipples2share


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quote:


Name? Anyone? Also I doubt any culture exists unchanged for 6000 years and survives.


The tribe is called Sans, Bushmen. They did change in the 19??'s, basically by force.

edited 'cause I found a website:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kim-langbecker/miracle-in-the-desert-an_b_37596.html


~Big


< Message edited by bignipples2share -- 7/28/2007 3:01:35 AM >

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 3:16:18 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Realone, yup, the Creationists will have some'splainin' to do!
They'd be in very deep doo doo then!
There'd be DNA strings that couldn't be matched to any "modern" humans.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 7/28/2007 3:19:24 AM >

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 3:54:57 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Thompson, you keep refering to this "tribe".... what are they called?  They sound interesting, and I would like to learn more....

luckydog:
I do not believe I have referred to any "tribe".  Perhaps you are still having reading and comprehension problems.  Maybe a course in remedial reading could alleviate your problem.
thompson

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 8:26:51 AM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		If I interrept your view on intelligence correctly, it seems to be more static with respect to age.  That, one might learn as the years go on, and acquire injuries, but that the brain itself is no better nor worse off?

You bring up intelligence- what a person knows.  An older individual would seem to have an increased likelihood of knowing more, true.  But is this smarts?  (Intelligence versus smarts.)

Would you say that an older gentleman might be able to learn an alien concept faster than a boy or adolescent?

I'd like to point out that I've spent some years as a tutor.  I've had students from the early teen years to the elderly years.  The learning rate, as I've observed it to be, is far greater in youth.  It's been exceedingly difficult for me to teach new things to those past 50; while some have been able to learn, the process was relatively slow and with far less extent (took longer, much less actually taught).

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 11:14:27 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eru

You are probably comparing the older mindless masses to younger intelligent people?



I am not.

Perhaps I am jaundiced, I have often been forced to sit and listen to people of that generation bag on my generation.  I have read a few articles about it over the past few years, but I would have to think about the sources.

Add to that being in a position where I got to watch their incredibly stupid and expensive blunders, and listen to their running around seeking somebody to blame.  I have seen this among people my parents age in real life, read about similar things going back to Michael Milken and the fleecing of the US, all the way to the current idiocy in Iraq and Afghanistan.

There is never time or intention to sit and consider the thing one wants to do prior to doing it, but there is always time after it doesnt go as well as the person hoped it would go to find somebody else to blame it on.

Boggles my imagination.

Sinergy

edited to snip.


< Message edited by Sinergy -- 7/28/2007 11:16:18 AM >

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 12:46:40 PM   
ToysAndTies


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Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think it's so much a question of intelligence, but flexibility.  Younger people (across generations) have always been more willing to try something new and different, where older people, endowed with greater knowledge and experience, tend to have a more immutable worldview, shaped by their own development.  There's a term I first heard in criminal justice classes, though I'm sure it's used in a wider range of topic areas:  "what works research".  The trial and error process we start off with as children (is that hot? touch: OW yes, it's hot) is expanded upon towards the teenage and younger adult years, where active experimentation builds on experience and helps formulate opinions that last.  Think of the stereotypical college student; experimental, flexible, curious.  Once the experience is had, then it becomes the foundation for thinking over experimentation, and the experimentation decreases or, for some people, stops.

So are younger people smarter?  I don't think so.  Are they more willing to try something new?  I think yes.  And when it comes to changing something, one has to try something new.  Intelligence and political involvement are not one and the same, and each age cohort has its strengths and weaknesses. 

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RE: Are Younger People Smarter than Older People? - 7/28/2007 1:19:55 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ToysAndTies

I don't think it's so much a question of intelligence, but flexibility.  Younger people (across generations) have always been more willing to try something new and different, where older people, endowed with greater knowledge and experience, tend to have a more immutable worldview, shaped by their own development.  There's a term I first heard in criminal justice classes, though I'm sure it's used in a wider range of topic areas:  "what works research".  The trial and error process we start off with as children (is that hot? touch: OW yes, it's hot) is expanded upon towards the teenage and younger adult years, where active experimentation builds on experience and helps formulate opinions that last.  Think of the stereotypical college student; experimental, flexible, curious.  Once the experience is had, then it becomes the foundation for thinking over experimentation, and the experimentation decreases or, for some people, stops.

So are younger people smarter?  I don't think so.  Are they more willing to try something new?  I think yes.  And when it comes to changing something, one has to try something new.  Intelligence and political involvement are not one and the same, and each age cohort has its strengths and weaknesses. 



Toys, good point.
Even in my 50's I always try to keep an "open mind" regarding science and new possabilities and I really enjoy learning new things.
I picked up the violin at age 50 and took two years of lessons and can read music now.
I just find it very interesting that so many younger people than me are interested in Ron Paul who is 71 years old.
And he's an M.D. so he has to have a little something on the ball.
But, I think that the younger people also like his ideas for government.
We obviously can't go on in the direction we're headed.
This govt. has turned into a kleptocracy where big money "Lobbyists" are making policy and not the American People.
I think younger people have a good sense of that.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to ToysAndTies)
Profile   Post #: 40
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