Am I wrong? (Full Version)

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goodgirl85 -> Am I wrong? (7/29/2007 10:19:54 PM)

So talking with someone online, somehow scene negotiating came up and Friend said the he as the dom sets up the scene within the subs limits. He says he has only ever heard of scene negoating for "day time players" and that he enters a scene and the others he knows in the life enters a scene and allows it to take on a life of its own.

And here I thought scene negotaiting was a common occurance..... am I wrong?

girl



MagiksSlave -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/29/2007 10:22:30 PM)

I think it depends totaly on the 2 that are going to play, Master and I didnt really negotiate when we scened though he knew what would harm me and what wouldnt. When playing casualy I always lay down what can and cant happen and totaly negotiate things befor hand I wont play with someone new without that nigotiation, but thats just me.

ms



Rafters -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 12:32:08 AM)

That has the potential for a comedy of errors.

Not everybody has the same idea of what each kink label represents, as well as which direction it should be taken.

A sub that thinks Anal requires prestretching, patience and lots of lube, might have a few words to say and no way to say them when they discover the Dom who's bound and gagged them, thinks Anal's just a matter of spitting-on-the-end-and-shoving-it-in-HARD-like-in-dem-pr0n-films.



MasterMike04103 -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 1:36:48 AM)

I feel it all depends on the people playing, I ALWAYS negotiate safewords for each and every public scene I do, and I do so just prior to the scene starting. If the sub I am playing with happens to have their own toys, I have them layout only the ones they really want used and if I am unsure how they will react to a toy, I talk to them for a breif second... Other than that, I think alot of it experience, common scense and communication....

Mike



taintedgypsy -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 1:40:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafters
thinks Anal's just a matter of spitting-on-the-end-and-shoving-it-in-HARD-like-in-dem-pr0n-films.


Though I tend to agree with all of Rafters post, I am still stuck on the end of the quote .... ouch and eeeek 



BoiJen -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 1:47:59 AM)

Some people negotiate some people don't. It's really up to them. I negotiate between first time play mates who I only intend to have playmates. I nver actually negotiated a scene with the woman I serve. I just do. So from both ends all at once (lol) it's entirely up to the individuals involved.



Mystique567 -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 5:48:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafters

That has the potential for a comedy of errors.

Not everybody has the same idea of what each kink label represents, as well as which direction it should be taken.

A sub that thinks Anal requires prestretching, patience and lots of lube, might have a few words to say and no way to say them when they discover the Dom who's bound and gagged them, thinks Anal's just a matter of spitting-on-the-end-and-shoving-it-in-HARD-like-in-dem-pr0n-films.


Ouch, RED



SweetAndInnocent -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 7:13:58 AM)

I would suggest that perhaps there is some language break down at play here.  If he says he is setting it up within the "sub's limits" it tells me there has been some form of negotiation there.  What he may be saying is that he doesn't "script" the scene, which is something I don't do.  I don't want to be the one who decides what will be used on me, how it will be used, when it will be used, etc etc.  I also don't play with someone where I would need to do that, because the time has not been put in ahead of time to know that He will know... what I like, how I like it, etc.

Just my two cents.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 7:15:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: goodgirl85
So talking with someone online, somehow scene negotiating came up and Friend said the he as the dom sets up the scene within the subs limits. He says he has only ever heard of scene negoating for "day time players" and that he enters a scene and the others he knows in the life enters a scene and allows it to take on a life of its own.

Well there are two things going on here:
Scene negotiation and
Scene planning

Negotiating simply sets up the terms of the scene- what's good, or not good.  What to watch for and what to avoid.  Hot spots and cold spots.  General ideas of where you want to go and why you want to go there.  This generally occurs more often with casual players because if you're in a live in 24/7 relationship with someone, you don't really have to talk every scene about what's going on- you've already discussed it over dinner or on the phone.  But negotiating can still occur- letting your dom know "Hey, don't forget I've got that early doctors appointment in the morning, so we shouldn't start late" is a form of negotiation.  It's just getting everyone on the same leve for a scene.  And it happens on some level for each scene a person gets into.  It's simply that the longer you've known the person, the the closer you are together day to day, the more groundwork has been laid and the less need for something specifically called "negotiations" needs to occur.

Scene PLANNING is actually deciding what specifically to do with the scene.  Bondage or not?  Suspension or not?  Which position?  How long?  What to do while they are in that position?  This can vary greatly and has little to do with how well you know the other person and much more to do with your style of scening and what particular scene you are getting into.  Some tops love to plan every detail of every scene.  Some tops fly by the seat of their pants.  Some tops do both.  If we're talking about a fantasy fulfillment scene (like kidnapping) you generally need more planning and thinking things through than if you're just doing a flogging for a half hour.  And bottoms desire different levels of planning and coordination as well.  Specially when you get into multiple person scenes, planning can become more of an issue.



chellekitty -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 7:19:25 AM)

well it depends on your definition of negotiation i suppose...by what you said, i would say they did negotiate...for me negotiation is not laying out every second or minute or progression of the scene...its going ok here are the boundaries, this what i like, i don't really like this, and you can't use that, and letting them bounce around in those defined areas as the whim hits them...i have a safe word - that i have used when they hit a mental boundary without meaning to...oh thats another thing...i don't play the see how hard you can hit me before i safeword game...thats not hot...i have endured it...but got nothing out of it...anywho...and thats just what i do at the begining...whether it be the begining of the scene or the begining of the relationship depends on the person...i have one guy that we just go to a play station at a party and he picks what he wants out of the bag and i have a chance to go...i'm not feeling that one today (he has nothing in his toy bag i don't like, sometimes) and theres a woman that i play with even more often, sometimes at parties and sometimes at her house that i negotiate with each and every time we play...now in a relationship situation...i make clear my mental and physical boundaries and the reasons why and unless i want to work on expanding those outer boundaries i consider it a violation of my trust for my partner to do so - they are not my therapist and most of those mental limits are as a result of rape and/or abuse....as for the physical ones, they are not my doctor either...
anyway, negotiation...you may never see two people negotiate (after all, how hot is a rape or kidnap scene if you know exactly when its coming)...you may see them sit down and go through the entire play bag...you may see them talk for 30 seconds or in the case of one certain party i go to, you may see the sub shoot the Dom with a nerf toy and the Dom grab the sub, bend them over their knee and wail on their butt for 20 min...just because you don't see it or it doesn't fit into your definition doesn't mean it doesn't exist....

chelle



CreativeDominant -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 7:38:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: goodgirl85

So talking with someone online, somehow scene negotiating came up and Friend said the he as the dom sets up the scene within the subs limits. He says he has only ever heard of scene negoating for "day time players" and that he enters a scene and the others he knows in the life enters a scene and allows it to take on a life of its own.

And here I thought scene negotaiting was a common occurance..... am I wrong?

girl


It sounds like some negotiation was going on here but it sounds as if it mainly concerns how long and what limits are in place.

As rafter noted, knowing what limits a submissive has is great but if all you know is that she does enjoy "being made" to suck cock, then you just might stick that big old head into her throat right off the bat and end up with a cock full of vomit. [:'(]   (See, you didn't find out that, while she DOES enjoy being made to SUCK cock, she does not enjoy being made to THROAT cock).

It's up to the people involved.  As you get to know a play partner, even a casual partner that you play with on a semi-regular basis, then usually less time is taken during negotiation of already-familiar territory.  But if this is something new you are doing with even a semi-regular partner and especially with a new partner, it helps to know "little quirks" such as the above OR as in given in Rafter's example.

Like LA said, there are two different areas...scene negotiation and scene-planning.  I generally don't bring the submissive in on the scene-planning other than on a limited basis (asking certain to-the-point) questions.  I sometimes plan just a general outline and flesh out the details as I go.  At other times, I plan the scene down to as much detail in my head as I can.  And for me, I also try to plan for things going wrong...and though it wasn't mentioned, I am sure other dominants do also...the submissive cannot handle it OR an injury occurs, etc..  I reallllllllllllllly don't want to get caught up in a "What the fuck do I do NOW?" situation without having at least some semblance of an answer to that question.

The negotiations though involve as much information gathering as I feel is needed and that takes the submissive and me.



PairOfDimes -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 7:55:02 AM)

Different people negotiate to different degrees. Some submissives and bottoms want to be surprised, so a really in-depth negotiation beforehand destroys the fun of it for them.

For some scenes, I haven't negotiated much beforehand because my playmate was good at communicating (and willing to communicate) during the scene. I negotiate much more extensively for roleplay scenes, especially nonconsensuality fantasies. Also, with an established playmate, I find I take shortcuts on negotiation--you know, "How does what we did last Friday compare to what you want to do tonight?" I have a baseline, too, for what an existing playmate thinks is "hard" or "light," so there's not the tiresome-yet-necessary process of discerning definitions, asking whether a new playmate's desire to play "not too hard" means a hand spanking that lightly reddens the skin or a caning that welts but doesn't bruise the skin. And, too, naturally, it's different when your playmate is not only a regular play partner, but also in a power exchange relationship with you.

Regardless of how extensive the negotiation is, I find it necessary to talk about *both* forbidden activities ("limits," "don'ts") as well as encouraged or desired activities, ("dos"). For "pickup play," where you're having your first playtime at a party, it's often more efficient to say, "I want x, how do you feel about that?" and to agree that the scene will focus on a set of activities, rather than to try to rule out every last thing that you don't want to do, because there's a lot of stuff that one could do!

What is a "day time player", anyway? Is it weird to play during the day? I mean, I know weekdays are typically reserved for working, but surely one couldn't object to playing on Saturday afternoons...?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 7:58:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PairOfDimes
What is a "day time player", anyway? Is it weird to play during the day? I mean, I know weekdays are typically reserved for working, but surely one couldn't object to playing on Saturday afternoons...?

I think it's the new even-lower degrading term from "weekend player."



vield -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 8:17:33 AM)

You have gotten lots of good input here.
My view is that negotiation is extremely important when one is a newbie beginning to test their BD/SM needs, and when one is connecting with a new partner. Unfortunately there are a few things out there that CAN kill you if you do not take care.
I believe some degree of negotiation takes place in most scenes, whether openly stated or not.
Yes some people like to negotiate everything, some like minimal negotiation, and as long as everyone playing understands and knowingly consents to what happens, all is OK.
I do public scenes different from private ones usually.
I want my submissive(s) to melt and cum and fly if I am the dom in the scene, but I decide how to take them there.
If I am the submissive, I have found that all which matters is that the Domme(s) involved get off nicely on whatever they choose to "make" me do.
In any case the hard limits and safe words need to be known and in place, for me.



LadyPact -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 1:01:13 PM)

I really liked what Mike had to say here, as it is very close to My own view.  This past weekend, I had arranged to do a scene with a bottom friend of Mine.  It was something that we had put a lot of time planning and talking about before hand.  Whether she saw it as 'megotiating' the scene or not, I really couldn't say because a lot of it was just things that came up in the conversation.  We had dinner with a group earlier in the evening to keep a good comfort level.
 
When at the club, she got to see all of the toys I had intended to use during the scene.  She had the opportunity to 'test' them on her hand, look them over, and have a general idea of what she might like.  Some of the toys were a bit more than she wanted to play with, so they were put back into the bag.
 
The scene did still take a life of it's own.  Once it began, negotiation stopped and it was about nothing but the play.  We had a marvelous time together, and she and I both had a trip that won't soon be forgotten.  I've received a lot of positive post scene comments from both her and those who were watching.  (More than one has said it was like W/we were dancing together to the same music.)  If the way it was handled takes away from My Dommely, Domme points, I think I'll just put that in the "I really don't care" column.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 1:29:08 PM)

Unlike the wannabe players who only do bdsm when they are awake, I even do bdsm and D/s when I sleep.



chellekitty -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 1:48:14 PM)

is that like my friends Master who will grab her hair, shove her head down to his cock and get her to suck him off and then all of a sudden he goes soft and she realizes that he's been asleep the whole time and has no recollection of it when he wakes up?



LaMspeach -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 3:01:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: goodgirl85
And here I thought scene negotaiting was a common occurance..... am I wrong?


(I didnt read all the post so i dont know if this has been said)

In my experience negotaiting scenes were usually just used between play partners and newbies. Those in a LTR were trust is built dont usually negotaite.

I can see me telling Master now... UMMMMM No, I dont feel like doing  that tonight,  how about .... [sm=whoa.gif]





MistressSassy66 -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 5:10:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: goodgirl85

So talking with someone online, somehow scene negotiating came up and Friend said the he as the dom sets up the scene within the subs limits. He says he has only ever heard of scene negoating for "day time players" and that he enters a scene and the others he knows in the life enters a scene and allows it to take on a life of its own.

And here I thought scene negotaiting was a common occurance..... am I wrong?

girl


I discuss what is okay and what isnt...That would be the Negotiating part.
Then the scene/session takes on a life of its own.
It can be anything that was agreed upon in the checklists of okay things to do.
The fun part for Me is never really knowing what I'm going to do until its being done.



OsideGirl -> RE: Am I wrong? (7/30/2007 6:10:34 PM)

Damn. once again LA has beaten me to it.

I always do some negotiation when I'm playing with someone that I'm note in a relationship with. How else will they know my limits? Psychic mind reading?



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