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RE: Subspace Dilemna - 6/30/2005 11:52:30 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

Am not sure your question has anything to do with "subspace" but it does have to do with the vulnerability of a sub.
Any responsible "Dom" would be aware of this issue and treat it carefully.
There are many "users" who just use and "toss" and that is not right.
So you as a sub does indeed need to be carefull and have a support system in place to help protect YOU.


Thank you for the very supportive words. No matter how strong I am, (and having lived alone and supported myself and made a good life for myself all on my own, I would say I am very strong), I still believe that being submissive does make me a bit vulnerable.

Thank goodness I do have that support system in place.

And a pretty darn good head on my shoulders, too! Smart enough to know when to reach out for some perspective.

Cin


_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to Kinkypupper)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/1/2005 5:43:05 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful
I still believe that being submissive does make me a bit vulnerable.

Only as much as you allow it to.

Now, I LOVE feeling vulnerable. It's why I love fear play, why I love tickle torture, why I love mind fucks. I do not often feel vulnerable, nor do I very often feel comfortable allowing myself to be vulnerable.

For example, this past weekend at Leather Retreat, I needed a catharsis scene very badly, to just cry and let out primal emotions. Unfortunately there was never an appropriate time or space to do it in, as I had a lot of responsibilities and other things going on throughout the weekend. I understood that and kept myself in check as needed.

I understand wanting to let go, but judging when it's right and when it's not is a necessary skill. In this situation it absolutely is and only ever can be within your hands.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/1/2005 9:57:43 AM   
harmony3709


Posts: 292
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful
I still believe that being submissive does make me a bit vulnerable.

Only as much as you allow it to.

Now, I LOVE feeling vulnerable. It's why I love fear play, why I love tickle torture, why I love mind fucks. I do not often feel vulnerable, nor do I very often feel comfortable allowing myself to be vulnerable.

For example, this past weekend at Leather Retreat, I needed a catharsis scene very badly, to just cry and let out primal emotions. Unfortunately there was never an appropriate time or space to do it in, as I had a lot of responsibilities and other things going on throughout the weekend. I understood that and kept myself in check as needed.

I understand wanting to let go, but judging when it's right and when it's not is a necessary skill. In this situation it absolutely is and only ever can be within your hands.


This has absolutely nothing to do with allowing yourself to feel vulnerable. You are vulnerable when this occurs, it's as simple as that. It is an automatic reaction that some submissives feel and has absolutely nothing to do with letting go or turning it on or off and it has nothing to do with learning a skill. It has nothing to do with putting yourself in a position such as play -- because this has nothing to do with scening or playing. There is at least one thread on the submissive side discussing this subbie-stupor or I believe it was called there subbie fever. Unfortunately, I don't have time to look it up right now to link it, but I do remember the discussion.

However, as I said in my earlier post, to explain this reaction to someone who has not experienced it is difficult, but I just don't agree with trying to tell someone to just turn it off or learn to control it.

Blessed be,
harmony

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/1/2005 10:13:38 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

This has absolutely nothing to do with allowing yourself to feel vulnerable. You are vulnerable when this occurs, it's as simple as that. It is an automatic reaction that some submissives feel and has absolutely nothing to do with letting go or turning it on or off and it has nothing to do with learning a skill. It has nothing to do with putting yourself in a position such as play -- because this has nothing to do with scening or playing.


Actually harmony, maybe it does for Em. Ever think that not everyone experiences/lives out submission the same way? I have heard many describe it much in the same way that Em does. Her views aren't wrong (as your broad sweeping statement seems to imply), they are hers.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to harmony3709)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/1/2005 10:58:31 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

This has absolutely nothing to do with allowing yourself to feel vulnerable. You are vulnerable when this occurs, it's as simple as that. It is an automatic reaction that some submissives feel and has absolutely nothing to do with letting go or turning it on or off and it has nothing to do with learning a skill. It has nothing to do with putting yourself in a position such as play -- because this has nothing to do with scening or playing.


Actually harmony, maybe it does for Em. Ever think that not everyone experiences/lives out submission the same way? I have heard many describe it much in the same way that Em does. Her views aren't wrong (as your broad sweeping statement seems to imply), they are hers.

- LA


How we FEEL may be automatic. How we choose to ACT on those feelings is not.

Those who allow their feelings to dictate their actions cannot be considered responsible adults, I don't know a dominant who would want to depend on their submissive FEELINGS to know that they would be obeyed.

I understand that woozy submissive fuzzy feeling you get when someone who has that chemistry walks in the room. And I deal with it as a responsible independent adult should do. Saying that I am oriented as a slave doesn't excuse me from acting responsibly on my feelings. And to use it as an excuse weakens the entire concept of consent.


(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/1/2005 11:44:14 AM   
MistressFire70


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		A little tongue-in-cheek here, but the idea might be worthwhile:

I have a friend who never shaves her legs and armpits for the first date. She insists that keeps fer from having sex on the first date because she'd be mortified to show hairy parts.

That specific thing might not work for you, but the idea is to find something that will limit yourself.


Fire


_____________________________

you have come to a great chasm. Jump. It's not as wide as you think.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/1/2005 12:05:15 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		It is because I am a responsible person that I began this discussion. There is not a bit of a doubt in my mind that feeling something and acting on it are two different things.

As we obviously all agree, there are risks and rewards in this lifestyle, as there are in any lifestyle.

I don't believe in going through life without taking measured, calculated risks, nor do I believe I am perfect and will never err on the side of incaution. I have never believed I have all the answers...just more than willing to grow and learn by trying out new behaviours in the safest way I can.

To say that I know exactly what I am doing and will never give in to temptation, or have my trust betrayed, is a foolish thing to say in my opinion, as there is always danger in being over-confident. So I always try to refrain from doing so.

I've enjoyed considering the posts on this thread, even those that didn't ring true to my life. In the end I believe the answers are in my heart, and by discussion, and introspection I am always refining the work-in-progress that is me.

Ihope I always remain happy that I am not perfect, nor always right, for that would be very boring indeed.

Thanks everyone, for helping me come to peace with my actions.

Cin



_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to MistressFire70)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/1/2005 12:42:03 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: harmony3709
It has nothing to do with putting yourself in a position such as play -- because this has nothing to do with scening or playing. There is at least one thread on the submissive side discussing this subbie-stupor or I believe it was called there subbie fever. Unfortunately, I don't have time to look it up right now to link it, but I do remember the discussion.



I agree, Harmony...and thanks for the heads-up on the other thread...I'll go looking.

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to harmony3709)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/1/2005 3:44:14 PM   
buffiyum


Posts: 119
Status: offline 		that touched the girls heart and made me very happy. thank you for remembering me! it was a very good pot-luck eh?!
~grins big-time~
da buffiyum

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/1/2005 4:19:51 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: buffiyum

that touched the girls heart and made me very happy. thank you for remembering me! it was a very good pot-luck eh?!
~grins big-time~
da buffiyum


You're welcome, and yes, She is definitely the Hostess-with-the-mostess in my eyes! You have a very friendly community there across the water.

And of course I remember, it's not often someone attempts to serve me!

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to buffiyum)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/1/2005 9:55:43 PM   
harmony3709


Posts: 292
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline 		My opinion still stands. What I describe only applies to me as I see and feel it, and in this case, my interpretation of the OP. What I was describing and I believe what the OP was describing is not just an overall feeling of submissiveness and has absolutely nothing to do with warm fuzzies. It is an isolated event that may happen to some and may not to others, which is exactly what I said in my post. What I have a hard time with and object to is implying that those who DO feel this way are somehow acting irresponsibly.

quote:

Those who allow their feelings to dictate their actions cannot be considered responsible adults


I frequently allow my feelings to dictate my actions and don't have to go around shouting that I'm a responsible adult to make others around me think I am. I live it every day in the vanilla world and in my local BDSM community. If I didn't feel something for my Master, I would not have taken the action of even dating him, much less belonging to him. If I didn't have very bad feelings for my ex-husband, I would not have taken the action of getting a divorce. If I didn't feel I would make a good mother, I would not have taken the action of having children. I rely heavily on my gut instincts and my feelings. I am not a machine.

quote:

I don't know a dominant who would want to depend on their submissive FEELINGS to know that they would be obeyed.


I do. Mine.

Blessed be and play safe,
harmony


(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/2/2005 8:34:09 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: harmony3709
What I have a hard time with and object to is implying that those who DO feel this way are somehow acting irresponsibly.

No, not those who FEEL that way, those who ACT without good judgement and allow their feelings to control their actions.

quote:

I do. Mine.

That sounds nice, you can tell your dom "I don't feel like obeying today" and he just accepts it?

(in reply to harmony3709)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/2/2005 8:58:01 AM   
harmony3709


Posts: 292
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


quote:

ORIGINAL: harmony3709
What I have a hard time with and object to is implying that those who DO feel this way are somehow acting irresponsibly.

No, not those who FEEL that way, those who ACT without good judgement and allow their feelings to control their actions.



When I feel "that way" and act -- obviously my judgement IS telling me it is the right thing to do. "Good judgement" is a relative term. Since the OP had nothing to do with that particular definition as that person defines it for herself and I have already made my particular point on that issue, that's a moot point anyway.

*shrugs*

quote:

quote:

I do. Mine.

That sounds nice, you can tell your dom "I don't feel like obeying today" and he just accepts it?


First, whether he "accepts" anything or doesn't accept anything is his choice and I don't decide that for him.

Second, I always feel like obeying. I may not want to do what it is I've been ordered to do or not to do, but I do always want to obey and there is a difference...........for ME of course, not speaking for you or any other submissive. So once again, a moot point.

*shrugs*

Have a Happy 4th All!! Hope you have a lot of big bangs on your holiday!!

Be well and play safe,
harmony

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/2/2005 2:10:26 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: harmony3709

My opinion still stands. What I describe only applies to me as I see and feel it, and in this case, my interpretation of the OP. What I was describing and I believe what the OP was describing is not just an overall feeling of submissiveness and has absolutely nothing to do with warm fuzzies. It is an isolated event that may happen to some and may not to others, which is exactly what I said in my post.




You interpreted my OP correctly Harmony. And you are very right about making some decisions based on feelings. I'm not a robot, and while I do choose when to act on logic, and when to act on feelings, I believe a complete person respects both the responsible, logical side of their brain, and the emotional, feeling part.

Cin


_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to harmony3709)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Subspace Dilemna - 7/2/2005 2:21:14 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: harmony3709

First, whether he "accepts" anything or doesn't accept anything is his choice and I don't decide that for him.


I agree, and personally the style of domination that claims the sub's feelings don't matter, are trivial, and should not be taken into consideration when he is deciding what to do, isn't a style that would work for me.

Besides, I can hardly imagine a sub staying very long with a dom who didn't care to know what their subs were feeling. But, to each their own.

All my dominant partners cared very much for my feelings, and encouraged me to express and be proud of all of my emotions.

They enjoyed that I was passionate about things, just as much as they enjoyed my ability to be very practical and logical.

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to harmony3709)
Profile   Post #: 35
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