no more negotiations (Full Version)

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apettiger -> no more negotiations (7/30/2007 10:22:58 AM)

i ended a 2 year relationship with my last One about 8 months ago. since then, W/we have attempted to renegotiate, or rather i should say that I have attempted to renegotiate.
He said i should send a list of the things i will and will not accept (the relationship turned abusive). i have sent Him this list at least 10  times and each time He said that for Him to consider it i had to re word some of it and resend it, so i did. and every time, He would say that there was something else that "offended" Him.
during all of all this i have let Him know that i am searching for Another.
after the last time He said i should resend the list, He said also that there was a timeline to His reciving it, but would not tell me when that was. so, apparently i did not meet it and, after over a month, He finally got back in touch with me.
it was too late, i have met Another and really like Him.
i told my last One that i wanted to remain friends with Him, but i could no longer consider getting back with Him.
i could hear the hurt in His voice, but am unsure if He was sad because "I" am no longer available to Him or, only because He was unable to keep a slave.
i am adding the email i sent to Him after O/our conversation:

Sir,
last night i listened while You spoke, and that is how it should be. but i need to let You know that i did not make my decision arbitrarily, i have spent the last 2 weeks fretting over it.
if i go with my heart and kneel for You, i will have a life where i can be no more than #3. there will be little or no affection, only orders and recriminations if those orders are not fulfilled. You do not listen to me when i try to let You know that something is distasteful or down right repulsive to me, or when i try to inform You of the things that will make me happy and content.
even though i DO have boundaries, You have always ignored them.
to You, nothing is red for me, even though i have many "red" activities. not only activities that You expect me to be active in, but also activities that You insist on being active in on Your own. such as trying to recruit my neighbors and family members.
i sent and re sent the list to You, just to have You refuse to discuss what was on it with me. i think (and this is only my opinion) You were using it to keep me on a string until You could make a decision about me, not because You honestly considered what was on it.
i am only human.
i made no secret of looking, while i was waiting for You to make up Your mind about whether or not You wanted me enough to implement some changes.
with my new "Thang" as You called Him, i am #1, there is no one in front of me. He shows me a great deal of affection, especially after a session and even after nothing more than sex.
He listens to me and asks my opinion on different subjects. He acknowledges my intelligence by asking for and listening to my input.
if i sound or act as though i am in distress, He immediately stops and makes sure i am o.k.
if He suggests something that i am not eager for, He either makes an attempt to convince me to try it, or, if i am completely against the idea, He will find someone else to do that kind of play with and not force me to do it.
He likes my big titties.
it doesn't bother Him to distraction that i am overweight. He understands that the happier i am the more weight i will lose.
You need to know, i have informed "Thang" that You have my heart, but i MUST be happy. not only for myself, but my family too. when i am upset, they become upset, (my child) especially needs me to be happy because without it, he is unhappy.
i really do not want You to go out of my life, i love You, but since You seem to only be interested in Your happiness and the happiness of Your wife and child. and not so much mine, it is up to me to find my happiness where i can.
You have no idea how much i wanted to find that happiness with You.
i will always love You and in my heart, You (are) my Master, but my service belongs to Another now.
                                              much love and regret,
                                               (edited name) tyger

i must say here, that He is the One i wanted to spend the rest of my life with, even tho He is married, with a small child, and has always said that He would never leave His wife. i love Him to this day, but feel that if i am not happy, i cannot make Him happy.
not to mention that i WILL NOT remain where i am mistreated or not appriciated.
what are the thoughts of the community on this? i know i have only skimmed the surface, but it would take more room than i have here to give a more complete view of the relationship.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 10:34:17 AM)

I'm sorry he's been able to keep you dangling on the hook for so long, but that you're a completely willing accomplice in your own misery so there's not much to say there.

I wouldn't email at all.  You've said what needs to be said.  It's over.  You're with someone else now.




apettiger -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 11:18:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I'm sorry he's been able to keep you dangling on the hook for so long, but that you're a completely willing accomplice in your own misery so there's not much to say there.



i too am sorry i let love blind me. i do not know if, or how deeply you have loved, but i truely thought there was a chance of U/us mending this. if love makes me an accomoplice, then that is so.
my misery came with the realization that my love was much deeper than His.


quote:

I wouldn't email at all.  You've said what needs to be said.  It's over.  You're with someone else now.


i sent that email the night W/we had O/our conversation, because while W/we were talking, He would not allow me to speak my mind and i thought He deserved to know exactally why i made the decision i did.




adoracat -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 11:18:56 AM)

tiger, i do understand your being hurt by your former Sir's words and actions.  most of what you said was not acceptible to my eyes either, and i wouldnt stay where i was that unhappy.

however, one thing that i dont understand (from my point of view) is the situation that you feel like you are third in line for his affection.  yes, i understand that he's married and has a child.  if you knew that from the begining, then you could have chosen *then* if you were able to accept the situation.

my household is poly.  i'm married to a man who is not my Sir.  he knows i have two other partners.  i've never come first with wolf, and i know it.

Sir...has other interests also.  and has limited time to spend in person with me.  i accept that...i also know where i am in his heart.

c is mostly vanilla.  he and his wife are poly.  i know where i am in c's heart also.

i accept where i am...and have never wondered about honesty or honor or my place in their lives.

i'm glad you're found someone that loves you completely for you.  let the other man be, he wasnt a right fit for you in any case.

kitten




earthycouple -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 11:44:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: apettiger

i ended a 2 year relationship with my last One about 8 months ago. since then, W/we have attempted to renegotiate, or rather i should say that I have attempted to renegotiate.
He said i should send a list of the things i will and will not accept (the relationship turned abusive). i have sent Him this list at least 10  times and each time He said that for Him to consider it i had to re word some of it and resend it, so i did. and every time, He would say that there was something else that "offended" Him.
during all of all this i have let Him know that i am searching for Another.
after the last time He said i should resend the list, He said also that there was a timeline to His reciving it, but would not tell me when that was. so, apparently i did not meet it and, after over a month, He finally got back in touch with me.
it was too late, i have met Another and really like Him.
i told my last One that i wanted to remain friends with Him, but i could no longer consider getting back with Him.
i could hear the hurt in His voice, but am unsure if He was sad because "I" am no longer available to Him or, only because He was unable to keep a slave.
i am adding the email i sent to Him after O/our conversation:

Sir,
last night i listened while You spoke, and that is how it should be. but i need to let You know that i did not make my decision arbitrarily, i have spent the last 2 weeks fretting over it.
if i go with my heart and kneel for You, i will have a life where i can be no more than #3. there will be little or no affection, only orders and recriminations if those orders are not fulfilled. You do not listen to me when i try to let You know that something is distasteful or down right repulsive to me, or when i try to inform You of the things that will make me happy and content.
even though i DO have boundaries, You have always ignored them.
to You, nothing is red for me, even though i have many "red" activities. not only activities that You expect me to be active in, but also activities that You insist on being active in on Your own. such as trying to recruit my neighbors and family members.
i sent and re sent the list to You, just to have You refuse to discuss what was on it with me. i think (and this is only my opinion) You were using it to keep me on a string until You could make a decision about me, not because You honestly considered what was on it.
i am only human.
i made no secret of looking, while i was waiting for You to make up Your mind about whether or not You wanted me enough to implement some changes.
with my new "Thang" as You called Him, i am #1, there is no one in front of me. He shows me a great deal of affection, especially after a session and even after nothing more than sex.
He listens to me and asks my opinion on different subjects. He acknowledges my intelligence by asking for and listening to my input.
if i sound or act as though i am in distress, He immediately stops and makes sure i am o.k.
if He suggests something that i am not eager for, He either makes an attempt to convince me to try it, or, if i am completely against the idea, He will find someone else to do that kind of play with and not force me to do it.
He likes my big titties.
it doesn't bother Him to distraction that i am overweight. He understands that the happier i am the more weight i will lose.
You need to know, i have informed "Thang" that You have my heart, but i MUST be happy. not only for myself, but my family too. when i am upset, they become upset, (my child) especially needs me to be happy because without it, he is unhappy.
i really do not want You to go out of my life, i love You, but since You seem to only be interested in Your happiness and the happiness of Your wife and child. and not so much mine, it is up to me to find my happiness where i can.
You have no idea how much i wanted to find that happiness with You.
i will always love You and in my heart, You (are) my Master, but my service belongs to Another now.
                                             much love and regret,
                                              (edited name) tyger

i must say here, that He is the One i wanted to spend the rest of my life with, even tho He is married, with a small child, and has always said that He would never leave His wife. i love Him to this day, but feel that if i am not happy, i cannot make Him happy.
not to mention that i WILL NOT remain where i am mistreated or not appriciated.
what are the thoughts of the community on this? i know i have only skimmed the surface, but it would take more room than i have here to give a more complete view of the relationship.



Abusers in any sect of life do not deserve further attention.




kossack -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 11:48:44 AM)

Doesn't it suck?  Breaking up is SO hard, and I'm not trying to minimize what you're feeling, but he sounds like a jerk.  Why does he have your heart?  I think you need to go through a period of saying he had my heart, and it is recovering and then just move on.  Don't think of him as the great love of your life--he doesn't deserve it.  If thang isn't it, maybe thang is a rebound relationship and you need to meet the love of your life.  But let him go.




apettiger -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 12:01:10 PM)

it was not, not being first in His affection that bothered me, it was the fact that He refused to show me ANYaffection. and yes, from the beginning i knew i was not His first and that the relationship would be poly. i accepted that. what i didnt know or accept was that He would not give me any affection or aftercare (and He was VERY rough), He would take out all His frustrations of the day out on me and deny me ANY pleasure. the things i consider "red" were only considered by Him in the beginning, but after time, He thought He could beat me into accepting them.
to give some back story: i told Him in the beginning that i am NOT into beastiality, yet after about a year, He kept trying to force me to engage in sex with dogs. He even beat me because i refused. He began trying to Dom my vanilla female friends, and neighbors, which made me an outcast in my neighborhood, then He started on my female family members, a couple of who are barely legal. i attempted to talk to Him about what He was doing to my home life, but He refused to listen and said i should accept it if He had sex with my mother and sisters (not going to happen) and when it becamwe apparent that my needs and desires meant nothing to Him, i left. these are all things W/we talked about before i EVER submitted to Him and He accepted them,,,,,, then.
it did not start out this way, but this is the way it ended.
He also wanted to re-negotiate, it was not a clingy sub trying to reconnect to a lost Master.
love will make a P/person do strange things.




apettiger -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 12:13:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kossack

Doesn't it suck?  Breaking up is SO hard, and I'm not trying to minimize what you're feeling, but he sounds like a jerk.  Why does he have your heart?  I think you need to go through a period of saying he had my heart, and it is recovering and then just move on.  Don't think of him as the great love of your life--he doesn't deserve it.  If thang isn't it, maybe thang is a rebound relationship and you need to meet the love of your life.  But let him go.


thank You kossack "had" is a wonderful word, and i will use it more often when referring to Him.
and i believe that "thang" just may be it. but if He is not, i WILL move on, just like i did with this last One.




MagiksSlave -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 1:23:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: apettiger

it was not, not being first in His affection that bothered me, it was the fact that He refused to show me ANYaffection. and yes, from the beginning i knew i was not His first and that the relationship would be poly. i accepted that. what i didnt know or accept was that He would not give me any affection or aftercare (and He was VERY rough), He would take out all His frustrations of the day out on me and deny me ANY pleasure. the things i consider "red" were only considered by Him in the beginning, but after time, He thought He could beat me into accepting them.
to give some back story: i told Him in the beginning that i am NOT into beastiality, yet after about a year, He kept trying to force me to engage in sex with dogs. He even beat me because i refused. He began trying to Dom my vanilla female friends, and neighbors, which made me an outcast in my neighborhood, then He started on my female family members, a couple of who are barely legal. i attempted to talk to Him about what He was doing to my home life, but He refused to listen and said i should accept it if He had sex with my mother and sisters (not going to happen) and when it becamwe apparent that my needs and desires meant nothing to Him, i left. these are all things W/we talked about before i EVER submitted to Him and He accepted them,,,,,, then.
it did not start out this way, but this is the way it ended.
He also wanted to re-negotiate, it was not a clingy sub trying to reconnect to a lost Master.
love will make a P/person do strange things.



Im sorry I know this is gunna sound terrable but, WHY do you love him?? He sounds like a terrable person. I know it isnt always easy to controll who you love, but it CAN be controlled, if you cant controll your own emtions who can? (always thought it was silly when people said they cant controll who they love or how they feel, we do have controll over it we just chose to say we dont so we dont have to take repsonsability for our actions regarding those emotions)

He is abusive and doesnt want to change, you are letting yourself be hurt more by letting your heart remain with him, it is time to move on take your heart back (telling him how much you love him and always will keeps him in controll of you at least in some way) i think it is rather unfair to the one you are with now or to any future person you want to become romantic with, and honestly after you telling him this other man has your heart and always will I question why he is still around. I know i wouldnt be sticking with someone who told me that their heart belonged to another and taht they refused to do anything about it.

What your Ex did to you is terrable and abusive, but you are allowing this to continue and rule over your life. You insist on keeping him around even though he is bad for you and you insist on letting yourself remain in love with him even though he wont return the feelings. YOU are the one letting you be unhappy here.

I know I know Im in mega bitch mode arent I!!

ms




sweetnurseBBW -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 1:43:37 PM)

For me even if I did love him the abuse would be a deal breaker. I can't be with someone who abuses. I can't go back to someone who abuses. He doesn't deserve anything more than you have done. Move on with your life as you have and experience a happy, healthy relationship. Love is not enough to make me return to an abusive relationship. You deserve better than that. Good luck to you.




charlotte12 -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 1:48:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave


im sorry I know this is gunna sound terrable but, WHY do you love him?? He sounds like a terrable person. I know it isnt always easy to controll who you love, but it CAN be controlled, if you cant controll your own emtions who can? (always thought it was silly when people said they cant controll who they love or how they feel, we do have controll over it we just chose to say we dont so we dont have to take repsonsability for our actions regarding those emotions)



I have alwasy believed that we cannot control our emotions but we can control our actions. However i am coming to agree with ms a little more. You did well leaving, an action i'm sure was hard and while i don't believe you can control your emotions overnight you can control actions that will affect your emotions. Don't let yourself say that he has your heart or that you love him. It may feel true right now but the less you say it the less you are affirming it to yourself. Do things for yourself that YOU deserve, such as dating this other man who sounds like a very good person. Do not contact the previous one again, no matter if he tries. Tell yourself everyday that you deserve better than how he treated you (which not to be mean but sounds frankly appalling). In other words do every little tiny action you can think of to loosen his hold on you and i bet you'll find in time that you feel it a lot less.

Just my two cents. I'm sorry for what you went through and i'm glad to hear that you cared about yourself enough to leave a bad situation. Good luck with your new thang




Viridana -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 2:04:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: apettiger

it was not, not being first in His affection that bothered me, it was the fact that He refused to show me ANYaffection. and yes, from the beginning i knew i was not His first and that the relationship would be poly. i accepted that. what i didnt know or accept was that He would not give me any affection or aftercare (and He was VERY rough), He would take out all His frustrations of the day out on me and deny me ANY pleasure. the things i consider "red" were only considered by Him in the beginning, but after time, He thought He could beat me into accepting them.
to give some back story: i told Him in the beginning that i am NOT into beastiality, yet after about a year, He kept trying to force me to engage in sex with dogs. He even beat me because i refused. He began trying to Dom my vanilla female friends, and neighbors, which made me an outcast in my neighborhood, then He started on my female family members, a couple of who are barely legal. i attempted to talk to Him about what He was doing to my home life, but He refused to listen and said i should accept it if He had sex with my mother and sisters (not going to happen) and when it becamwe apparent that my needs and desires meant nothing to Him, i left. these are all things W/we talked about before i EVER submitted to Him and He accepted them,,,,,, then.
it did not start out this way, but this is the way it ended.
He also wanted to re-negotiate, it was not a clingy sub trying to reconnect to a lost Master.
love will make a P/person do strange things.


Considering this post of yours, I wonder why on earth you like that guy. According to what you describe, this is the kind of person I wouldn't even want to have as a friend. You are worth more than that kind of behaviour and honestly I'd consider you lucky to have gotten out of the relationship.




nyrisa -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 2:51:34 PM)

I think you are way too quick to say you love this guy. Apparently he does not understand the meaning of the word, and if you could still feel so much love for him, after abusive treatment, and despite now having a man in your life who treats you well, then you probably need to reexamine what your understanding of love is, too. I don't mean that in a negative way, I just mean that many women allow themselves to be treated badly and excuse this lack of self protection by saying "but I loooooove him!"

Also, one part of your email to him struck me:

"You have my heart, but i MUST be happy. not only for myself, but my family too. when i am upset, they become upset, (my child) especially needs me to be happy because without it, he is unhappy.
i really do not want You to go out of my life, i love You, but since You seem to only be interested in Your happiness and the happiness of Your wife and child. and not so much mine, it is up to me to find my happiness where i can."

You tell him that he seems to care more about his happiness and the happiness of his wife and child than he does about yours.....well, duh? A man is morally obligated to put his wife and family first. (cheating with a girlfriend comes way second.) Then you state that you have to do what is best for yourself and your child.....well, duh, again. A woman also has a moral obligation to put her child first. It sounds like this paragraph is pretty much the answer to your questions about the relationship with this guy.

I hope you will have happier days to come. Don't waste your life pining over a man who cheats and abuses. Best of luck to you.




sintralgasub -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 5:58:03 PM)

Sometimes, it is very difficult to let go of the things we know are bad for us.  I read the description of your new Sir, and He seems to be wonderful.  I say, give him room, and give this new relationship time to grow, and perhaps one day you will realize letting go of the first one was the best thing you ever did.

No one deserves abuse.  He crossed several lines.  You need to stand your ground. 

Enjoy your new relationship, I know closing the books on an old relationship hurts, but we are strong, we adapt, and adjust and our hearts grow.  Happiness is out there. 

sgs
(edited to correct spelling)




apettiger -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 7:51:05 PM)

it was good in the beginning and i did fall in love with Him. but my feelings mean nothing in light of the way i was treated.
i have told him that although i may love him, it does not mean that he has some strange hold on me, unless my concerns are addressed to my satisfaction, there is no way i will ever go back to him.
i say that i love him because it is true, but i am not stupid and am no longer with him nor am i going to go back to him. I LEFT HIM.
i am not listening to my heart anymore, this time i will listen to  my head and do the smart thing.
i could not control my emotions, but i CAN control my reaction to thoses emotions.
i may love him, but that does not mean i must spend any time in his company and i will not, especially if my company is neither wanted or appriciated.
[edited to add] his wife knew about me from the beginning and was as ok with me being in his life as i was about being with a married man, so there was NO cheating.




TemptingNviceSub -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 8:26:47 PM)

If your emotions are telling you that you love such a person as you described. Then I think that maybe you have some very deep underlying self esteem issues as well. If Mr Thang has not captured your heart, but only your head, it makes one wonder why the preference for the "bad boy"?..Was it the challenge? Was it his utter lack of any regard for you ? Did you think he could be "converted"? How does someone "love" such a person as described?..There may be more issues in motion here than you realize...You may need to do a lot more self exploration.....Tempting




SexyRed -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 8:49:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: apettiger

it was not, not being first in His affection that bothered me, it was the fact that He refused to show me ANYaffection. and yes, from the beginning i knew i was not His first and that the relationship would be poly. i accepted that. what i didnt know or accept was that He would not give me any affection or aftercare (and He was VERY rough), He would take out all His frustrations of the day out on me and deny me ANY pleasure. the things i consider "red" were only considered by Him in the beginning, but after time, He thought He could beat me into accepting them.
to give some back story: i told Him in the beginning that i am NOT into beastiality, yet after about a year, He kept trying to force me to engage in sex with dogs. He even beat me because i refused. He began trying to Dom my vanilla female friends, and neighbors, which made me an outcast in my neighborhood, then He started on my female family members, a couple of who are barely legal. i attempted to talk to Him about what He was doing to my home life, but He refused to listen and said i should accept it if He had sex with my mother and sisters (not going to happen) and when it becamwe apparent that my needs and desires meant nothing to Him, i left. these are all things W/we talked about before i EVER submitted to Him and He accepted them,,,,,, then.
it did not start out this way, but this is the way it ended.
He also wanted to re-negotiate, it was not a clingy sub trying to reconnect to a lost Master.
love will make a P/person do strange things.



I know all about how love can make you crazy and addicted, which is what is sounds like you are to him. Often when we ae addicted to a person, it is the intensity of feelings that we are addicted to, which makes sense even when there is abuse going on. When I finally broke up my bad relationship last summer,  I was told by a therapist once that "you don't love or miss your ex boyfriend, you miss the drama and you would rather feel horrible than nothing at all". And he was right. I was so used to feeling emotional and sometimes physical pain (masqueraded as "what we do") that I could not deal with being numb. I got over it.

Please take that to heart and remove yourself not only physically from such a horrible man, but most of all, emotionally. You are lucky to have found someone new, but do not punish him for the sins of the abuser. If he does not make you feel as intense, perhaps he is not the right one, but give yourself time.




fadedlace -> RE: no more negotiations (7/30/2007 9:05:20 PM)

I want to preface this by saying I was abused for several years by one I lived and breathed for, and any acceptance at all in his eyes of what he was doing just spurred him on to more abusive behavior.  Why should he stop if I wasn't going to *really* stop him by walking away and never looking back?

If you really want this new man, please reconsider thinking of your ex as your Master and remember that you're not with him anymore for many damn good reasons.  Why you'd want to stay friends with him is beyond me, too.  It is your life of course, but it seems to me that you might be at least subconsciously dooming this new relationship from the onset by trying to keep this ex in your life on any level.  Sometimes it's much better to turn your back and walk away without looking at anything but your happier future.  *I've tried the still being friends thing too, and that "friends thing" was just an open invitation in his mind that he could happily keep on doing what he had been doing to me, because as I stated before, he felt it was fine because I still "wasn't really trying to stop him."* 

Me, I'd have just sent a note saying "It's over, I have someone new, I don't want you to ever contact me again."  Period.  Block, Ignore, Change Phone Number or Hang Up on him anytime he called, etc.  End of contact.  Even if I did feel like I loved him.  You deserve better than to have that kind of person in your life on ANY level - something your new man seems to know.

Good luck, and I hope you can move forward.




SireKane -> RE: no more negotiations (7/31/2007 1:08:38 PM)

Why the hell would you want to renegotiate a relationship which turned abusive?

Kane




sublizzie -> RE: no more negotiations (7/31/2007 1:29:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: apettiger
i say that i love him because it is true, but i am not stupid and am no longer with him nor am i going to go back to him. I LEFT HIM.
i am not listening to my heart anymore, this time i will listen to  my head and do the smart thing.
i could not control my emotions, but i CAN control my reaction to thoses emotions.


I can understand this since I am living it. I still love my abusive ex-husband. I will probably always love the positive parts of who he was. But they did not out-weigh the negative parts of who he was or the abusive ways he treated me. Leaving him was the best thing I ever did for myself. But there is still a part of me that loves him.




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