RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized

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Honsoku -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/1/2007 7:54:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy We are not monogamous critters.....We have been taught to be monogamous.....Though I posted this initially as somewhat of a joke....Someone explain to me what is the purpose of women who live together all having their period at the same time? Is it not to be fertilized by domiguy? I read the answer to this somewhere. Since I don't remember for sure, I am going to postulate as to the answer. Let's stand in Domiguy's shoes for a minute. Domiguy here has a nice harem going. In order to ensure that any child the concubines have is his, he has to mate repeatedly with each one while they are ovulating (or successfully keep all other males away, which is hard to do without serious power discrepancy between him and the other males). If several concubines are ovulating at once, this could easily put an unsurmountable barrier as even Domiguy's legendary endurance can only go so far. On the other hand, if the ovulations were staggered, it would be rather trivial for him to isolate and mate with the only female ovulating. So the secondary partners win because they get the chance to breed with others and have Domiguy raise them. They don't lose anything, because they will only produce a few offspring so they can all be Domiguy's if they want it to be. His preferred mate(s) win as well, since he can't cover every concubine, he has to focus his energies on his primary mate(s). If he does not do this, the primary mates can go to some other guy next door while Domiguy is busy with his other concubines (since Domiguy obviously does not value his primary mates enough). Basically, ovulations sync up because it gives the women more power over their reproductive options by preventing an individual male from hoarding them all to their disadvantage.

Aswad -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/1/2007 8:04:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Right, and how many examples of feral children do you know? Five per century? For that matter, how many feral children have ever had children of their own? Not many. I just pointed out that they pretty much represents what a human is, sans the social inheritance. quote: You couldn't be more wrong that socialization hasn't influenced human evolution since the development of language, but I'll let you find the literature for yourself. Symbolic language. And you'll find that about 3000 generations ago, which isn't all that many iterations. But if I'm wrong, I'd be happy to take a hint as to the literature. There is a lot of literature to scan without one...

domiguy -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/1/2007 8:15:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Honsoku quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy We are not monogamous critters.....We have been taught to be monogamous.....Though I posted this initially as somewhat of a joke....Someone explain to me what is the purpose of women who live together all having their period at the same time? Is it not to be fertilized by domiguy? I read the answer to this somewhere. Since I don't remember for sure, I am going to postulate as to the answer. Let's stand in Domiguy's shoes for a minute. Domiguy here has a nice harem going. In order to ensure that any child the concubines have is his, he has to mate repeatedly with each one while they are ovulating (or successfully keep all other males away, which is hard to do without serious power discrepancy between him and the other males). If several concubines are ovulating at once, this could easily put an unsurmountable barrier as even Domiguy's legendary endurance can only go so far. On the other hand, if the ovulations were staggered, it would be rather trivial for him to isolate and mate with the only female ovulating. So the secondary partners win because they get the chance to breed with others and have Domiguy raise them. They don't lose anything, because they will only produce a few offspring so they can all be Domiguy's if they want it to be. His preferred mate(s) win as well, since he can't cover every concubine, he has to focus his energies on his primary mate(s). If he does not do this, the primary mates can go to some other guy next door while Domiguy is busy with his other concubines (since Domiguy obviously does not value his primary mates enough). Basically, ovulations sync up because it gives the women more power over their reproductive options by preventing an individual male from hoarding them all against their will. I'm not so sure....This is not how it works in the animal kingdom or in my own mind.....I have a harem.....They are all extremely hawt!!!!!....10's the lot of them.....Since they are all wearing my collar.....And they are totally "smitten" by my domliness they will all be fertilized at my own pace....Fucking...Fucking...Fucking....Cubs game....More fucking...Nap...More fucking....If there were too many "to handle" I suppose I might let them eat each other out....I'm not totally unreasonable...Then it is back to fucking......9 months later.....It would be off to find a new harem!!! Cuz I roll like that. And these critters all going into heat at the same time allows me to keep my eye on them.....Sneaky subs...Always trying to get me to raise some other guys kid on my dime....Why are "all" subs so deceptive? By all of my subs going into heat at the same time means that I pass onward my superior genes and Domliness....Then split.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/1/2007 8:19:57 PM)
Search "gene-culture interaction" or "gene-culture coevolutionary theory" in a scientific database. You'll get hits. Off the top of my head: Kevin N. Laland et al., "Gene-Culture Coevolutionary Theory: A Test Case," Current Anthropology 36.1 (1995): 131-56. Here's Laland's website: http://lalandlab.st-andrews.ac.uk/ Have fun! quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: You couldn't be more wrong that socialization hasn't influenced human evolution since the development of language, but I'll let you find the literature for yourself. Symbolic language. And you'll find that about 3000 generations ago, which isn't all that many iterations. But if I'm wrong, I'd be happy to take a hint as to the literature. There is a lot of literature to scan without one...

Aswad -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/1/2007 8:36:03 PM)
Lordandmaster, Thanks! The reference is most appreciated. domiguy, Jokes aside, Honsoku has a pretty good, down-to-earth explanation of it all. Best wishes, al-Aswad.

domiguy -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/1/2007 8:48:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad Lordandmaster, Thanks! The reference is most appreciated. domiguy, Jokes aside, Honsoku has a pretty good, down-to-earth explanation of it all. Best wishes, al-Aswad. I'm going to have to check this out further.....My understanding is that if a "new" lion takes over a pride the first thing he does is to kill any cubs and thereby causing his new beeeyatches to go into heat so that the next batch of cubs sired will be his..... My understanding is that the dom male fucks'em all ...By taking place as the "LaM" of the herd....He does in fact fuck the majority...It ensures that his more powerful and sought after genes get passed on to future generations. It's good to be the king.

Aswad -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/2/2007 7:14:58 AM)
Hail to the king, baby! [:D]

szobras -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/2/2007 8:02:27 AM)
I think that if the human species was naturally monogomous, we would not have flourished through histories conditions to survive as long as we have.

lusciouspeach78 -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/2/2007 11:06:28 AM)
Oh PLEASE!! Tell me why MEN are discussing the menstrual cycles of WOMEN, when 9 times out or 10, men don't know enough about it to talk about it?! (sigh) Here's the deal. Say you have a group of females that are siblings that live together, or that are friends that are together all the time. For whatever reason, the cycles start to align. I had this happen many times with me and my girl friends in high school. There was a group of about 15 of us, and damn near all of us began to get our periods at the same time. When this "phenomona" started to happen, we joked about it and called it the "Easter Bug" cuz we all got it over Easter break. It's nothing more than that. Women who are close knit end up having cycles that run very similar. And if I could remember the how's and why's from my medical classes, I would explain it better, but that's all I have for now.

CruelGorean -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/2/2007 12:26:46 PM)
Yes it is your opinion but I strongly disagree. First of all women are prone to cheat just as men are. Not ALL men are prone to screw every other woman with her legs open. I for one am NOT one of those men. Secondly, it is socialized for monogomy. We were all brought up to beleive that having more than 1 partner our whole lives is bad. (Well most of us anyway.) It is especially this way in many of the major relegions. In other countries and other sub-cultures it's the norm for the male to have more than 1 wife. While your feminist male bashing etiquitte is true to a point, its not entirely true.

domiguy -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/2/2007 3:28:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouspeach78 Oh PLEASE!! Tell me why MEN are discussing the menstrual cycles of WOMEN, when 9 times out or 10, men don't know enough about it to talk about it?! (sigh) Here's the deal. Say you have a group of females that are siblings that live together, or that are friends that are together all the time. For whatever reason, the cycles start to align. I had this happen many times with me and my girl friends in high school. There was a group of about 15 of us, and damn near all of us began to get our periods at the same time. When this "phenomona" started to happen, we joked about it and called it the "Easter Bug" cuz we all got it over Easter break. It's nothing more than that. Women who are close knit end up having cycles that run very similar. And if I could remember the how's and why's from my medical classes, I would explain it better, but that's all I have for now. It's one of the topics that we just love to discuss....We talk about our wive" and gal's flow all of the time...."You know John, sometimes subsusie just doesn't always seem to have that "fresh" kinda smell or feeling....It's such a bummer." Whatever!....When you chicks shack up together you simultaneously use enough tampons to clog up the Snake River....You may not know why this is happening....But I do....You see, I am a gashologist and after years of research I am quite confident the reason you all go into heat at the same time when you share close quarters is because you are all followers....And biologically speaking, you all want to all be fucked by the Dom male, even you dykes......You are all just deer that have learned to apply makeup, drive and have abortions.

Emperor1956 -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/2/2007 3:41:39 PM)
quote: Honsoku: I read the answer to this somewhere. Since I don't remember for sure, I am going to postulate as to the answer. Let's stand in Domiguy's shoes for a minute. Domiguy here has a nice harem going. In order to ensure that any child the concubines have is his, he has to mate repeatedly with each one while they are ovulating (or successfully keep all other males away, which is hard to do without serious power discrepancy between him and the other males). If several concubines are ovulating at once, this could easily put an unsurmountable barrier as even Domiguy's legendary endurance can only go so far. On the other hand, if the ovulations were staggered, it would be rather trivial for him to isolate and mate with the only female ovulating. So the secondary partners win because they get the chance to breed with others and have Domiguy raise them. They don't lose anything, because they will only produce a few offspring so they can all be Domiguy's if they want it to be. His preferred mate(s) win as well, since he can't cover every concubine, he has to focus his energies on his primary mate(s). If he does not do this, the primary mates can go to some other guy next door while Domiguy is busy with his other concubines (since Domiguy obviously does not value his primary mates enough). Basically, ovulations sync up because it gives the women more power over their reproductive options by preventing an individual male from hoarding them all to their disadvantage. This is all well and good, but how then do you explain The Coolidge Effect which has been shown to exist in females as well as males? All those supposedly tuckered out subbies of Domiguy -- who he left complaining that they had headaches (en masse) -- light up and (to use Domiguy's language) "spread 'em and beg" when a new male shows up. - E

Honsoku -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/2/2007 7:03:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Emperor1956 This is all well and good, but how then do you explain The Coolidge Effect which has been shown to exist in females as well as males? All those supposedly tuckered out subbies of Domiguy -- who he left complaining that they had headaches (en masse) -- light up and (to use Domiguy's language) "spread 'em and beg" when a new male shows up. - E I think the Coolidge effect is kind of a misnomer. The "effect" is really the regulator on activity loosening a notch. There is a wide gap between "willing to do" and "able to do", it is seeing those two points come closer to convergence that is the "effect". There will be a point where the presence of a new mate brings about no sexual response. Part of the point of synchronized ovulation is to overwhelm any individual male's ability to perform, so they are able pursue other beneficial mating opportunities if available. There are a variety of reasons for a regulator to be in place including; a more valuable mate might come along, insurance against the first male being sterile by mating with another, and to conserve energy (once successfully fertilized there is no direct reproductive reason to mate again, though there may be indirect social ones). Generally speaking (I expect there to be cases to the contrary), I would expect the Coolidge "effect" to be weaker among females than males, as females have less to gain from pursuing additional mates in a short time frame. quote: ORIGINAL: Domiguy I'm going to have to check this out further.....My understanding is that if a "new" lion takes over a pride the first thing he does is to kill any cubs and thereby causing his new beeeyatches to go into heat so that the next batch of cubs sired will be his..... Right, because why waste time waiting and spend resources on offspring that aren't his? My understanding is that the dom male fucks'em all ...By taking place as the "LaM" of the herd....He does in fact fuck the majority...It ensures that his more powerful and sought after genes get passed on to future generations. Indeed he tries to, but it doesn't insure his genes get passed on. I would expect to find a significant cuckold rate amongst the prides, as the lion has to sleep sometime. Nor are prides always taken over by a single lion. "In lions, brotherhoods combine to drive out the males from a pride and take it over for themselves; they then kill the babies to bring the lionesses back into season, and all the brothers share the reward of mating with all the females" - The Red Queen pg. 195.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/2/2007 7:36:13 PM)
Well, but that's the whole point: the only time a lion will permit another adult male in the pride is when it's his own brother, because genetically speaking that's not a threat to his immortality. In any other case, a lion will fight the other male(s) until it's clear that he would die if he continued. Here's a good example on video, courtesy of National Geographic (though the commentary and background music are a little over-the-top): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itFhIgr5ZvQ quote: ORIGINAL: Honsoku Nor are prides always taken over by a single lion. "In lions, brotherhoods combine to drive out the males from a pride and take it over for themselves; they then kill the babies to bring the lionesses back into season, and all the brothers share the reward of mating with all the females" - The Red Queen pg. 195.

Griswold -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/3/2007 5:44:07 PM)
Cuckold. Someone mentioned it....(I'll discuss it). It's a weird trip. Those that dig it...dig it..... (Sue me). It's a good thang. It shakes me. GAWDDAMMIT it's good !!!! Yeah. Mmmmmm. (Yeah...sue me....it's good).

Lordandmaster -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/3/2007 6:47:17 PM)
... And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Griswold -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/3/2007 7:02:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster ... And now back to your regularly scheduled programming. (Ooooops).

leatherette -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/3/2007 8:28:10 PM)
Its good to be king ah, sexy beast I take pride in being an animal Its good to be king ..... ;) beautiful I'm a nature girl Please go on gentlemen.... pardon my ovulation

Stephann -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/4/2007 3:49:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad Hail to the king, baby! [:D] Groovy. Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun. This... is... my... BOOMSTICK! Ash

Strongmindbody -> RE: Monogamy - Natural or Socialized (8/19/2008 4:15:50 PM)
Decisions, decisions, get flamed for resurrecting an ancient thread or get flamed for rehashing yet another well worn topic... But for the sheer joy of argument, check out this new study that claims: Polygamy is the key to a long life "Want to live a little longer? Get a second wife. New research suggests that men from polygamous cultures outlive those from monogamous ones. "After accounting for socioeconomic differences, men aged over 60 from 140 countries that practice polygamy to varying degrees lived on average 12% longer than men from 49 mostly monogamous nations, says Virpi Lummaa, an ecologist at the University of Sheffield, UK." etc, etc, etc, as Yul Brynner used to say in that polygamist flick, The King an I.

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