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RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 6:44:27 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I suppose I shall get pilloried for this but it appears that a "span" of the bridge gave way. From news reports I heard I thought the whole bridge had collapsed.

See Tacoma Narrows for a spectacular total bridge failure due to resonance effects.

I believe that one span fell,and caused the other spans to drop,like dominos.Actually,if you`ve ever fluffed a sheet,that little whipping motion is what happened.
As the one span fell,it "un-locked" the tie-in points where the spans connect to the super-structure.That in turn allowed another span to fall,and then the next and so on.

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Post #: 21

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 6:55:04 AM

mnottertail

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those spans are on big roller bearings (for expansion) and once they are unattached, you are riding the bobsled to hell......those bridges are also built 'sprung' so there is alot of potential energy in them when they let go.

Ron

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Post #: 22

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 7:01:07 AM

MistressCass

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Joined: 5/30/2006
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My heart and prayers go out to all affected both directly and indirectly by the bridge collapes in MN.

Something similar happened many years ago on the NYS Thruway, due to flood conditions at the base of the bridge, so I am personally aware of the worry anyone who has ever driven across the stricken bridge or has loved ones who do so and I send my most healing and strengthening thoughts out to them.

(MSN Has a bunch of videos of interviews and pictures of the area for those who are interested in first hand accounts)

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Post #: 23

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 7:02:10 AM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

It may take years to figure out the exact cause...

The cause could be as simple as rust. It can be erosion. Minnesota experiences vast temperature and climate changes throughout the year. And that could have weakened the steel over the span of 40 years.

This will probably happen more often in the future. According to a report on US highways, over 70% of the bridges in the United States are either "structurally deficient or obsolete." It doesn't mean they are all going to collapse, but the vast majority of the US interstate highway system was constructed over 50 years ago. And now we are starting to see that the bridges and roads may start experiencing maintenance issues. The bridges made 30-50 years ago are also obsolete. This meaning that they are no longer constructed that way anymore. The designs and construction processes have vastly improved. And they were talking about actually upgrading the 35W bridge back in 2001 but the price tag was enormously high.

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Post #: 24

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 7:37:05 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

those spans are on big roller bearings (for expansion) and once they are unattached, you are riding the bobsled to hell......those bridges are also built 'sprung' so there is alot of potential energy in them when they let go.

Ron

That`s correct.Now a days ,the roller bearings are "looped",in some way, so they won`t come un-latched.Back in the day,they thought the massive weight would keep things in place.But even the biggest things can move or shift.

What should have happened,was the failure of just one span(or a part of one).But the pulse of energy,like a huge wave,ran down the bridge and tripped the next span,which tripped others,and so on.It took a few moments(maybe a minute) for the whole event to happen,from what I`ve heard.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/2/2007 7:39:10 AM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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Post #: 25

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 7:40:56 AM

mnottertail

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I suspect these weren't looped, because it looked like to me the 'sprung' force shot out towards the abutments. And everything elselooks like the one standard twisted from something and the spans just rolled off the bearing surface, into the drink.

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Post #: 26

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 7:47:35 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I suspect these weren't looped, because it looked like to me the 'sprung' force shot out towards the abutments. And everything elselooks like the one standard twisted from something and the spans just rolled off the bearing surface, into the drink.

It`s actually tough to look at,seeing those cars....

If anyone knows where to send donations,please post a link.

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Post #: 27

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 12:34:56 PM

behindmirrors

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The Red Cross is accepting donations- we are going to give blood and food and water and whatever else we can today... http://www.redcross.org/ is the link everyone is handing out, so I would try there first.

I'm also checking to see what else can be done...at this point, I want to know I can do anything I can, especially with people I care about effected.

Anything anyone can do to help out is appreciated by everyone here in Minneapolis, I'm sure- myself included.

behindmirrors.

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Post #: 28

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 12:41:01 PM

mnottertail

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Joined: 11/3/2004
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Those of you who are going to Minneapolis for weddings and whatnot for some time, expect huge delays, those going anywhere near the Mississippi or south may consider bottled water, bonewater that is tainted with antifreeze, oil and gasoline isn't real good for you. (Mr Yuck says NO!!!)

I suspect with the strong current they will be picking up cadavers in the Red Wing area and perhaps beyond. That toll is gonna rise logarithmically when they start fishing out cars.

People who live in the area might want to get St. Cloud Culligan or something.

A really sad deal. A tragedy of the first order.

And gawkers should stay away, it is gonna be tough enough.

Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/2/2007 12:49:08 PM >

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Post #: 29

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 1:14:03 PM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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PA- has 10s of thousands of bridges- many in disrepair.

the fact is- Americas infactructure is bursting capacity. this is just the beginning of many simmilliar event that will occur- mark my words.

rather then upkeep infastructure- we band aid it. it is worse then you imagaine. mostly since we added 60 million people to the country in the past 20 years.

the electrical grid is chatic. teh highway system. the airports- the ports, schools, hospitals. you name it.

just the otehr day a steam pipe burst in NYC- it caused alot of panic.

of course we could fix the infastructure- but 1 trillion $ in Iraq. to start with.

the food supply is dismal- everything. we dont have enuff jails.....

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Post #: 30

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 1:15:32 PM

CruelGorean

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Joined: 5/19/2007
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Do we blame the US Army Corps. Of Engineers on this?

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Post #: 31

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 1:24:33 PM

MissIsis

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Joined: 1/1/2005
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My heart goes out to everyone who has been or will be affected by this.

I have always been terrified of bridges. When I moved to the north west coast, there were so many of them. I hated having to go on them. Since then, I always keep a small hatchet in my car just in case my car ever goes off of one of them into the water. I hear there is a special tool that can open car windows, but I didn't know about it at the time. I think an ax should be something everyone keeps in their car in case of an emergency, close by, like part of a first aid kit.

I wish there was something more we all could do for these people & their families. Nothing ever seems like enough when horrific things like this happen.

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Post #: 32

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 1:30:55 PM

mnottertail

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NO, and the recriminations are going to come, but they probably shouldn't. It was a very bad bet and an error in judgement by the experts in the matter, like the shuttle launch.

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Post #: 33

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 2:00:51 PM

domiguy

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Joined: 5/2/2006
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It would suck to be in your car as it slowly slid it's way with the current to the bottom of Old Man River....I imagine that they are going to find a few that if they had an idea of what to do might have lived through such an ordeal......

Just in case you ever find yourself in such a situation....It is wise to have an idea of what actions one should take.....

http://www.wikihow.com/Escape-from-a-Sinking-Car

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Post #: 34

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 2:16:04 PM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

It is soooo crazy around my neighborhood right now!
There are news reporters from all over the world, as far as
Sweden and Japan. All the major cable news channels
and of course local.
It is only a few blocks from my house but I would be crazy
to go down there right now and try and get some photos, no
matter how bad I would like too.
They are asking everyone outside the media to stay away.

Thanks for everyone for having us in your thoughts.

Huggz, Missy.

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Post #: 35

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 3:48:10 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

PA- has 10s of thousands of bridges- many in disrepair.

the fact is- Americas infactructure is bursting capacity. this is just the beginning of many simmilliar event that will occur- mark my words.

rather then upkeep infastructure- we band aid it. it is worse then you imagaine. mostly since we added 60 million people to the country in the past 20 years.

the electrical grid is chatic. teh highway system. the airports- the ports, schools, hospitals. you name it.

just the otehr day a steam pipe burst in NYC- it caused alot of panic.

of course we could fix the infastructure- but 1 trillion $ in Iraq. to start with.

the food supply is dismal- everything. we dont have enuff jails.....

That's funny PaHunk, I'm watching Lou Dobbs right now and a viewer wrote in to say that we're building roads, bridges, and infra-structure in Iraq and other countries while ours crumbles.

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Post #: 36

RE: 35 W Bridge Collapses - 8/2/2007 6:55:06 PM

cyberdude611

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Joined: 5/7/2006
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The good news in all this may be the loss of life isn't nearly as high as originally thought. Right now only 4 people are confirmed dead and only 8 are still missing. So the loss of life in this accident is much less than what was originally feared.

As for fixing the infrastructure, you can put a trillion dollars into it and it still won't work because we lack the resources to fix all the bridges at once. The American Society of Civil Engineers sets the cost to repair or replace bridges at a price tag of $9.4 billion a year for 20 years, And it will take at least 20 years to fix all the bridges. This isn't simple work....we are talking about 77,000 bridges in need of maintenance. This is something that the government has ignored for the past 30 years... There is a lot of blame to go around.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 37

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