Gift or not....

Gift or not.... (Full Version)

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Davesgirl -> Gift or not.... (6/30/2005 5:50:39 PM)
Hello everyone! I've read on here that some consider submission a gift, and that some do not. My question now is, and this purely my own inquisitiveness calling out, why do you think that way/ What brings you to believe it is or isnt a gift? My personal feeling is that submission is a gift, and here is why.... True, for most it is a need, to submit, to pelase, to take care of. This I do not deny. But, I feel it is a gift for one reason. It is something given freely, to a person that the sub/slave wishes to give it to. Someone who has earned the subs trust and respect enough for them to submit to. Its not given arbitrarily, most of the time. So, I believe that because submission is given to the Dom/me, it is a gift. THe same thing for the Dom/mes...Their dominance is a gift to the sub, simply because it is something given after mututal trust and respect have been established. And both parties have the chance and authority to leave or not submit/dominante. As I said, jsut my thoughts, and curiosity causing me to poke everyones brains. Thanks in advance for sharing with me!

Isolde -> RE: Gift or not.... (6/30/2005 6:00:58 PM)
I don't personally consider it a gift. I do at times consider it an honor and a blessing on both sides of the equation, if I'm feeling mushy, but a gift? No. Gifting someone with something you need strikes me as selfish. Sure you're giving it freely, but that's like buying your best friend an XBox for their birthday and 'gifting' it to them because you knew that they'd let you use it afterwards. Don't get me wrong, to have that level of trust and respect is a wonderful thing. To be blessed with it is enough to make a person glow with the warm-fuzzy feeling of knowing you've made a valuable connection. But I don't see it as a gift because you, the giver, are getting something out of it too.

zaynab -> RE: Gift or not.... (6/30/2005 6:22:38 PM)
i, myself, am the gift to the Dom..... not my submission... my submissiveness is just an adjective to describe how i am.....

slavedesires -> RE: Gift or not.... (6/30/2005 6:26:41 PM)
Once again i will throw this out, it is from b.com We like it. Altho who we are is the gift given, ourselves and who we are. to the other.... gifts are NOT conditional. This is a forgotten fact. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Submission, as they say, is a gift. Suppose, instead of giving herself to me, my lover gave me a cd player. Suppose the cd player did not work; and suppose I never tried to get it repaired. She'd think I didn't value that gift very much, wouldn't she? When she gives me something, she wants to see me enjoy it, she wants to see that I value it enough to keep it behaving properly. The gift is her. Her heart, her mind, her skin. Slowly I will weave a silken net around her, a net made of rules, rules made of authority: the authority an owner has over a gift he adores. If she struggles within the net, if she breaks a rule, she will be punished; this is not easy for me, but it is my commitment. It is my gift, this dominance. If I let her get away with breaking my rules, she'll feel that I don't value the gift she's given me. I spell out the structure of rules she needs to follow, and the rules become a silken net, and within this net she knows exactly how to behave in order to please me. The animal that knows how to be pleasing is a happy animal; this structure, so explicit, and tight as shibari, is also my gift to her. With ruthless efficiency I will work to keep my lover in a hungry, sexualized mode of obedience, as the air around her is charged with electricity and danger. I want her to feel held, I want her to feel loved; yet I will also be swift, dominant, brutal and uncompromising, training her to serve me as I want, to love and adore me, and punishing her expediently. I don't do this out of unkindness, I don't do this out of fear. I am what I am because I know of no more powerful way to love a woman than this. ~~~Themistokles

Kinkypupper -> RE: Gift or not.... (6/30/2005 6:32:03 PM)
The difference between 'slavery" as its historicaly defined and 'submission' or even a "slave" is one of consent. Most who are not familiar with the bdsm community ( I feel) are not aware that the "term" slave or even "sub" is totally inadequate in the English language and we do not have a "term" better then that. So there is a LOT of confusion. In a D/s relationship the Dom may indeed be in control and deciding what to do or not to do. However it is the "sub" in the relationship that has "SUBMITTED" to the Dom and given him the GIFT of control over themselves. Even in a no-safeword relationship the DOM respects the sub and cherishes her for the gift she has given him. He did not take it by force. SHE gave it to him.. Admitted also HE may by force shown her the gift she is and brought out in her what she is offering Him. But this is NOT GOR.. the rule of Might cannot chain a girls heart not even THERE could it do so. ( read more then a few of the books and you will agree with that comment.. ) You may control her body physically but her heart and mind is ALWAYS hers.. ( yes even if you have "trained" her so that she reacts automaticlly. or you have destroyed any will in her to fight your will. Still in the beginning it was GIVEN... It is a gift beyond measure and beyond even haveing a "bill gates credit card" (Good for up to 4 medium sized countrys) I would rather have a sub give herself to me freely as a gift with no conditions, no limits, no games, and with ALL HER HEART.. then to trade places with "Bill".

onceburned -> RE: Gift or not.... (6/30/2005 6:33:17 PM)
I think submission is a gift in the same way that love is gift. Both are precious but so is the love/dominance we receive back.

happypervert -> RE: Gift or not.... (6/30/2005 7:29:34 PM)
I'm gonna copy my comments on this topic from this thread on the gift of submission from last year. I consider the slogan "submission is a gift" to be manipulative and dishonest. I think that submitting is done because it is it's own reward; calling it a gift distorts the motive from the personal satisfaction it provides to making it appear like it is done solely for the satisfaction of another. It's like saying you ate the last piece of cake so someone else wouldn't eat it and gain weight. Thanks -- that's so nice of you! Furthermore, calling it a gift is another way of saying "I'm a gift and so special that you should treat me like a treasure." Nothing wrong thinking you're wonderful or wanting to be treated well and having that type of relationship. But I think that should be in the relationship anyway without having to fish for compliments and manipulate it with this so called "gift". In other words, whenever I hear this notion I just go "yuck!"

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Gift or not.... (6/30/2005 8:22:49 PM)
I echo Happy and add my own thoughts. My being owned is not a gift, it is not given freely, nor is it given without conditions. I maintain my commitment to the Owner based on expectations, based on the knowledge that he IS the Owner. I was able to CHOOSE him for me. The "gift" idea is a pleasant romantic metaphor, but no more or less. I am who I am. While I might be a blessing to some people, relationships are HARD WORK, as wonderful as they might elsewise be. Being in a relationship takes commitment, sweat, tears and time.

fillepink -> RE: Gift or not.... (6/30/2005 11:49:18 PM)
This topic always confused me. I have listened, tried to see whether i was just being dense, but i simply cannot follow it. i always end up feeling i am listening to two people argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Maybe i really am just missing The Big Picture, but do proponents of "gift" have different relationships from those who oppose "gift"? It does not even seem to be one of those never-ending protocol issues, since no one is asking to be addressed as a "gift" by the community at large. sigh i am lost. and i keep remembering the scene from "Green Fried Tomatoes" where the woman greets her husband at the door in saran wrap and a bow. i know people take this very much to heart. i feel guilty as hell; it's like farting in church. can't be helped but you still wish the floor would open up and swallow you. fillepink [image]local://upfiles/72910/C16E3CBE58814063AADB8E09F40F7D00.jpg[/image]

darkinshadows -> RE: Gift or not.... (7/1/2005 1:07:39 AM)
Submission, to me is a gift. It is a blessings and something I can use. The submission that eminates from me to others - is NOT a gift. It is simply who I am. Gifts are something to make people feel good - submission - when a natural occurence - just happens. You cannot make it happen - you cannot force it - preplan it - avoid it. 'Giving' a 'gift' is a premeditated action. So, no, submission - nor the act of dominance, is a 'Gift'. The gift is just another romantic, myth of manipulation and guilt. Peace and Love

darkinshadows -> RE: Gift or not.... (7/1/2005 1:08:47 AM)
quote: how many angels can dance on the head of a pin Eleven [:)] Peace and Love

imtempting -> RE: Gift or not.... (7/1/2005 1:22:45 AM)
Off topic but when I lost my virginity the next year when it was her birthday I was pretty poor at the time and we had grown to be only friends so I said " I gave you the gift of my virginity. Its something that was very special to me(honestly it was) it can never be taken away or lost". She said "pffft its something you wanted aswell so your buying me a gift".

Focus50 -> RE: Gift or not.... (7/1/2005 3:39:35 AM)
I'm a non-believer in the "gift of submission".... A true gift is uncorrupted; is generally offered with no strings attached; has no expectation of something in return. When you give your gift of submission, ask yourself why you "give" it to the Dom/me you do. Is it because they have a nice smile, in need of a boost, you drew their name from a hat etc or was it given in reasonable expectation of something equally unique and valuable in return? If you have an ulterior motive, it is not given freely at all.... It's not that I don't appreciate what it is that my sub enables when she submits to me but to have it touted as a "gift" apparently free of obligation and expectation just isn't true! I've posted on many occasions that only a fem/sub can satisfy all of my intimate needs and it's that which makes her such a prized treasure but I like to feel that I do for her, too! Now when a sub is duped into submitting to some wannabe who has nothing of equal value to offer or exchange, then submission IS a gift. And that sub usually winds up perplexed and miserable for the experience.... A sub's submission represents an equal 50% contribution to the 100% required for a D/s dynamic to function. No sub, no dynamic - true! Equally, no Dom/me, no dynamic! Either they're complimenting gifts or they're not a gift at all (to a "genuine" Dominant), but the "gift of submission" doesn't stand up on it's own. Focus50.

RiotGirl -> RE: Gift or not.... (7/1/2005 5:36:17 AM)
simple, easy, Its not a gift it takes two to tango

LadyAngelika -> RE: Gift or not.... (7/1/2005 6:17:38 AM)
quote: The "gift" idea is a pleasant romantic metaphor, but no more or less. I agree Em. And much like HP, I'm going to borrow from post I made not to long ago on a thread entitled The "gift" of submission Submission is special. Like love. If my boy loved everyone (to the degree that he loves me), it wouldn't be so special that he loved me. Just like if he served everyone to the same degree that he served me, I wouldn't feel so privileged. Now I want to tell you first off that I'm not sure if submission is a gift or not. If it is, so is dominance. Now the word gift has plenty of connotations, some of which are voiced in this thread. I think the most appropriate one is "the act, right, or power of giving" which brings me back to my original point. One who submits chooses who they submit to. And that is what makes it a gift to the one they have chosen to submit to. But even there, I find the implications of the word gift to be loaded. I also want to quote Lawrence, aka topcat, from that post that HP refered to because I think he said what it is that I wanted to say, but in that oh so eloquant way that Lawrence does: quote: I wouldn't call it a gift, but my ego is pretty big. Submission is, in my eyes, my just due for the work I am doing in invoking it in her, For me mastery isn't just about me getting my way- it's making her want my way, it's finding the hidden buttons and pushing them at the right moment, noting some passing comment, and weeks later being able to do exactly what she never realised she wanted. - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Gift or not.... (7/1/2005 6:22:42 AM)
quote: She said "pffft its something you wanted aswell so your buying me a gift". Wow. I have never, ever asked for a gift in my life. I'm not saying this to insult this woman because it's all a question of perception and personal values, but I think that asking for a gift is tacky! - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Gift or not.... (7/1/2005 6:24:15 AM)
quote: Submission, to me is a gift. It is a blessings and something I can use. Does that imply that you are a gifted submissive? ;) - LA

RandBcouple -> RE: Gift or not.... (7/1/2005 6:31:07 AM)
don't have the time right now to read this entire thread, so if i repeat anything already said, sorry : ) Personally, i don't think of my submission as a "gift". It's a part of who i am, just like being dominant is just in my Master's nature. i don't think it's a gift we give eachother, it's simply who we are. We are both fulfilling our own needs as we fulfill eachother. By submitting to Him and pleasing Him i am satisfying a need inside me as well. If it were a gift then i'd give my submission without expecting anything in return...D/s relationships are a give & take, that's how we complete eachother. (IMHO) ~hugs~ Babygirl

flowerchild -> RE: Gift or not.... (7/1/2005 6:47:07 AM)
For me it is not a gift, it is my way of life. This is how I feel deep down in my heart and soul, the real gift is that I found a wonderful man to share my life with. He is kind, honest, gentle (most of the time :devil: ), and cares for me so much. I trust him with my life and would do anything to please him. That in my opinion is what submission is, it is the total and complete trust in someone that you can feel comfortable handing over you most intimate aspects of your life to someone. We do not live 24/7 as Master and slave, but I feel that I love Him so much that if circumstances were right I probably could live full time as His slave. A gift is when I bring Him a new toy or He brings me my favorite treat, not His domination of me or my submission to Him, that is just who we are as people. This is again like collars a matter of personal opinion and feelings, there are no right or wrong answers here.[:)]

SteelBondager -> RE: Gift or not.... (7/1/2005 7:15:41 AM)
I received a slave as a gift once. She had a near perfect body, but didn't have any skills or personality. I gave her to someone I thought would appreciate the decoration. She wasn't worth the food, health care and assorted costs. He didn't think so either after a few months. If I see the word "gift" in a profile, it's a pretty good bet I'll be passing it by. Same goes for people who find it necessary to dispense advice in their profiles. If they're lecturing me before they meet me, what's it going to be like later?

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