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RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 7:39:11 AM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		Well, "gift" might be a simple word, but I have a feeling that many people do not consider the true definition of the word when formulating their response.

quote:

Something that is bestowed voluntarily and without compensation.


In one respect it is a gift, as it is bestowed voluntarily, but it fails the test of the qualifier. Compensation is expected and received. It is expected that the person on the receiving end will take your offering and control you, dominate you, teach and guide you, look at for your needs first and foremost. you have the need and/or want to be dominated. you expect that the Dom/me will meet your needs and wants.

you do not offer up your submission and turn around and walk away, hoping for the best. If you do, you are a fool.

Therefore, by dictionary definition, submission is not a gift. Neither is dominance.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to SteelBondager)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 9:14:18 AM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

you do not offer up your submission and turn around and walk away, hoping for the bes


But isn't that what happens with people who are simply occasional play partners?

I am thinking that submission (and dominance) is not a gift (which is a one time transaction) but a form of love/friendship. It is an ongoing relationship with mutual bonds of caring.

I hope that makes sense. I am going to bed now.

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 9:37:48 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
I wouldn't say so, M'Lady A, but someone else might!*grinz

You always speak the most wonderful, thought provoking questions!
I think that there are definately gifted submissives - I also believe that a gifted submissive is aware of his/her gifting, and 'uses' it without hesitation because it is the natural thing to do to them - in the same way, there are submissives who have to work hard at submission because although they are submissive, it doesn't come easy - for whatever reason. Submission is a gift - but only to the person who owns it and a dominant may own a submissive or slave, but not the 'talent' of the submission - in the same way - dominance is not a gift, because a submission can never own, control or have the talent of dominance.

Peace and Love




_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 9:47:51 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

If it were a gift then i'd give my submission without expecting anything in return...D/s relationships are a give & take, that's how we complete eachother. (IMHO)


I agree that submission isnt a gift, but different standpoint.

when you give a gift, you want something in return. Whether thats appriciation or just to see the person who is getting the gift feel loved or happy or pleased - it is still something in return.

Submission isn't like that. Sure, in a Ds relationship, its give and take - but I don't 'expect' to be looked after, cared for - it just occurs. Its natural - I know it will happen - I don't expect it - because to submit to someone is to give over in the knowledge that if my submission is accepted, then the inevitable happens - mutual consent and fulfilment.

Nothing is expected, but everything is gained.

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to RandBcouple)
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RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 10:07:37 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

in the same way - dominance is not a gift


Yeah, sometimes it might be a curse! ;)

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 12:42:47 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
ah... but the dominance You are blessed with makes you a wonderful gifted Dominant M'Lady A *gush*

(I am allowed to gush M'Lady - it's allowed when I am in awe)

Peace and Love
(and extreme sucking up)

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 2:35:32 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		My submission is not a gift to anyone....including Thorns....whom i serve with much Honor.

It's who i am...........not what i give.


~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to Davesgirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 3:24:47 PM   
slavedesires


Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Submission, to me is a gift. It is a blessings and something I can use.


Does that imply that you are a gifted submissive? ;)

- LA



hehehehe....we are all giftedly unique submissives.

~~shy

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 3:56:29 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smilezz

My submission is not a gift to anyone....including Thorns....whom i serve with much Honor.

It's who i am...........not what i give.


~smilezz~



AMEN!
-that- is how I feel. My submission can't be a gift. My religion isn't. My lack of self-confidence isn't.

It's a personality trait.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 4:00:42 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

ah... but the dominance You are blessed with makes you a wonderful gifted Dominant M'Lady A *gush*

(I am allowed to gush M'Lady - it's allowed when I am in awe)

Peace and Love
(and extreme sucking up)


angel, you are way too sweet ;) thank you. And I'm sure Demon thinks you are a gifted submissive!

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 4:12:21 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		In my opinion, many times when a sub says her submission is a gift, it is implied that you are damn lucky that she came your way and you had better be worthy or the gift will be given to someone else. That is why that gift usually does end up being given over and over quite frequently

(in reply to Davesgirl)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 4:28:25 PM   
Davesgirl


Posts: 89
Joined: 5/13/2005
Status: offline 		Everyone here makes very valid points, and has given me much to think over. So I do thank you all for taht.

However, jsut so I can clarify something, which may or may not have been directed at me.

Me submitting to my Master is not something I've given to countless other people. I have only submitted to him, and have no plans on taking it away from him and giving it to someone else. No way, I dont do that kind of thing. I've made a comittment for life with him, as slave and soon to be wife. I do know it happens, unfortunately, that some people consider themselves "Gods gift to Dom/mes"....Not me though. I know I am fortunate to have found someone that I can submit to, and finally be me.

So....The varying thoughts and oppinions ehre have changed my perspective a little, having had much to think on. And I thank everyone for their words

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/1/2005 6:12:17 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

In my opinion, many times when a sub says her submission is a gift, it is implied that you are damn lucky that she came your way and you had better be worthy or the gift will be given to someone else. That is why that gift usually does end up being given over and over quite frequently

Funny. I look at my boy and I feel that I'm damn lucky to have him in my life. He is also damn lucky to have me in his. It's not all so black and white.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/3/2005 6:13:38 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		My submissiveness is a gift only in the sense that one might say my talent for writing, my intellect, or my sense of humour are gifts. I really just see these as things I am blessed to have - through genetics.

In that respect Dominance is a gift in the same manner...

I'm on the side of those who go bleeech when they hear it referred to as the gift of submission. Like eating something far too sweet. LOL

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to SteelBondager)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/3/2005 9:45:29 PM   
nonuts4thshoney


Posts: 550
Joined: 6/12/2005
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		i have given myself to my Master. All that i am and do is for Her. She is the most important person in my life. i feel submission is a gift. i also feel Dominance is a gift and She has given that to me. i look after Her needs and She looks after mine.

We are a gift to one another.


-carolyn

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/4/2005 6:23:41 AM   
sudja


Posts: 155
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		I wasn't going to participate in the thread, having been "warned" by the well-versed LA, but, I coincidently had this very conversation this morning, and thought I'd share.

[09:05] <CappedUpMale> submision of a sub is a gift to the Dom/me of the subs chosing
[09:05] <me> If that's how you want to view it.... my take on it is that you can't force a "gift" on somebody.
[09:06] <me> I can federal express myself anywhere, but unless that Dominant wants me, I'm not submitting.
[09:06] <me> No gift - a mutual deciding.
[09:06] <me> Two-way street, as with all things D/s.
[09:07] <CappedUpMale> a sub isnt wanted if she doesnt show submission to the Dom/me
[09:07] <me> And vice versa.
[09:07] <me> It is always a balanced process.
[09:08] <me> But there can be no "final submission" without a final "Dominance."
[09:09] <CappedUpMale> it is but as all things go, A Dom/me isnt a Dom/me without a sub and a sub isnt a sub without a Dom/me
[09:09] <me> If I were to kneel before you, I am trying to force my submission on you - that's no gift.
[09:09] <me> Right.
[09:09] <me> Complementing parts.
[09:09] <me> Yin Yang.
[09:09] <me> Never-ending Mobius.
[09:09] * CappedUpMale smirks
[09:10] <me> Pardon?
[09:10] <CappedUpMale> what was said is cut and dry
[09:10] <me> Point?
[09:11] <CappedUpMale> meaning I dont debate it and your point seems to agree with Mine
[09:12] <me> Ah. I don't see how that necessitated a "smirk," but to each their own. I am glad we have reached agreement that it is equal - not a gift. ;)
[09:14] * CappedUpMale arches a brow
[09:14] <me> Well, you did say we agreed. ::grin::
[09:14] <CappedUpMale> does a sub often question a Dom's actions?
[09:15] <me> Her Dom, I would hope not.
[09:15] <me> However you are just a person in chat as between us.
[09:16] <CappedUpMale> Have a good day
[09:16] <me> Of course, if somebody gives "it" to everybody, it hardly as any value at all.
[09:16] <me> Surely not a gift. ;)
[09:16] <me> You too. :)
[09:17] * CappedUpMale stops
[09:18] <CappedUpMale> I never ask for anyones submission
[09:18] <CappedUpMale> and to be submitted to by the one I do choose to have would be a gift
[09:19] <CappedUpMale> submission is not to be taken lightly as most sube are very Dominate in thier own ways
[09:19] <CappedUpMale> dominant^

So, my thoughts in a nutshell - and also how to annoy a sudja in less than 15 minutes.

He clearly wanted the last word, so I did give him *that* gift.

"smirk." "arched brow."

How .... Dominant.

(Not.)

sudja

< Message edited by sudja -- 7/4/2005 2:23:22 PM >

(in reply to nonuts4thshoney)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/4/2005 8:36:20 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
*round of totally awestruck applause*

That has to be the BEST post I have read in a long time.

Thank You sudja!

*leaves bouquet of flowers*

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to sudja)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/4/2005 8:46:01 AM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline 		I don't consider the act of submission or the decision to submit a gift any more than I would consider the decision to marry or live together a gift. Big decisons, yes, but not worthy of enshrinement as gifts.

I'm in a bit of a smartass, irreverent mood this morning, so I just want to say that whenever this topic comes up, I am reminded of an old Saturday Night Live gag: Is It A Floor Polish Or A Desert Topping?

Bob

(in reply to Davesgirl)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/4/2005 9:13:54 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Very interesting IMl. Of course the only point I disagree with is that something is less meaningful if you give it to everyone. But I'm an active slut :)

(in reply to sudja)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Gift or not.... - 7/4/2005 9:51:21 AM   
exploringlimits


Posts: 4
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		A sub I used to see gave me a gift for christmas last year... it was scented massage oil. That was the metaphor for her submission. Yes, I do like massaging sometimes since it is something she and most of the planet like receiving but I also like getting it back. Her submission was a gift of the same sort. It was given knowing that she is receiving a lot of benefit too. Not that it's a bad thing, just pointing it out.

How do I get rid of that Vanilla thing? I'm not vanilla.

<------ over here.

< Message edited by exploringlimits -- 7/4/2005 9:59:54 AM >

_____________________________

A Dominant force in today's Dominant world

(in reply to SteelBondager)
Profile   Post #: 40
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