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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/6/2007 8:46:17 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

As for Separation of church and state....when did that become separation of religion and state?   They are NOT the same thing. The separation of church and state was designed to prevent an official Church of America from forming...not to ban all public displays of religion. We need to regain focus on this issue.



I don't recall the words 'Separation of church and state' being in the Constitution...feel free to use whatever definition of 'respecting an establishment of religion' suits your needs, but I doubt if the Court will be impressed, unless you happen to agree with their version

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/6/2007 9:16:40 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

I suggest that some read the "Criticism of requiring or promoting the pledge" part.

I am very patriotic - I love what was attempted with the United States experiment. But I am not much for swearing oaths or flag waving. The flag is nothing more than a symbol - what it stands for is a nation of laws predicated on the social contract that is the U.S. Constitution. Ultimately, it's no more than a legal arrangement between we citizens.

I can't see any point to worrying myself over the meaning of what is probably false patriotism misguidedly spliced together with some odd religious ideas and symbolic notions concerning a piece of cloth with some colors on it. I object to the pledge of allegiance on several grounds, including the simple fact that I just don't like it. The flag doesn't mean much to me either.

Why aren't we promoting the Declaration, the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and our several state constitutions instead? I'd pledge allegiance to things that matter to me - but not some silly flag.

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/6/2007 10:35:56 PM   
BlueCollar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

I don't recall the words 'Separation of church and state' being in the Constitution...feel free to use whatever definition of 'respecting an establishment of religion' suits your needs, but I doubt if the Court will be impressed, unless you happen to agree with their version


It's funny, but a LOT of people actually think so.  But there is no mention at all in the US Constitution that relates to a division between religion and state. 

What people are really thinking of,  is a of series of postulations and debates featured prominently in the Federalist Papers, written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay. Thomas Jefferson also has a famous letter he wrote to the Danbury Baptists which shows his support for a seperation between the two entities, but again, nothing made it into the Constitution.

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/7/2007 1:22:39 AM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		If a high school football teams wants to gather in the end zone prior to a game and say a prayer so what? the word God is non denominational. The 10 commandments whiles specific to two religions, are a very good moral code, in fact it is from those 10 commandments that the roots of modern law are found.

The only issue I have ever had with public displays of religion are the mosque bells and calls to prayer in a local muslim neighborhood... They were very loud and incredibly disruptive.

Which religion to display and where is a compeltely different issue. It does not fall under Sepration of Church and State.

This country was not designed to be anti-religion, in fact it is quite the opposite. Our justice system find it's roots in the old testament.
10 ammendments in the bill of rights - 10 commandments...not an accident
The first ammendment, protecting religious freedom.
"In God We Trust"

Among many other exmaples. Religion provides a strong moral code. While you may disagree on some of the point(ie homosexuality, abortion, etc...) no one here can object to the basics:
Do not murder
Do not steal
Do not bear false witness, etc...
As the Jewish sage Rabbi Hillel once described the Torah: "Do unto others as you would have done unto yourself, the rest is just commentary"


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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/7/2007 1:30:07 AM   
NavyDDG54


Posts: 203
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Please tell me where I said it was part of the constitution? I never did, and am quite aware of that fact.

The flag is more than just a piece of cloth with colors on it. The flag symbolizes freedom and hope. Each one of the stars represents one state in our great country. the red is the blood of the thousands of men and women who gave thier lives for this country and for freedom. Ever since the beginning of countries the Flag has been held in high regard, carried into battle, treated with the utmost respect, if the flag bearer fell another one would pick the flag up and carry on.   

The reason the pledge is important and should be taught is not form a legal oath. but to teach the principles of this country.
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, ONE NATION, under God, INDIVISBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL" 

That is what needs to be taught to our kids. 

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/7/2007 3:06:04 AM   
mefisto69


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Status: offline 		Considering that most children enter school with almost NO skills, the meditation projects should be welcomed. I haven't heard of any proferring to a specific religious movement - and yoga is taught as mind/body exercise w/o philosophy.
Try to work with kids that are not supported by their parental units. ie: no preparation at home......can't tie shoes, can't hold a pencil, no inkling of reading........diatribes against homework....the unit is Always right/can do no wrong...no respect for the teachers/school personnel......it's so bad, schools now have to present classwork in 'ethics'. Yes...a little calming can go a long way in the learning process.

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/7/2007 5:48:48 AM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mefisto69

Considering that most children enter school with almost NO skills, the meditation projects should be welcomed. I haven't heard of any proferring to a specific religious movement - and yoga is taught as mind/body exercise w/o philosophy.
Try to work with kids that are not supported by their parental units. ie: no preparation at home......can't tie shoes, can't hold a pencil, no inkling of reading........diatribes against homework....the unit is Always right/can do no wrong...no respect for the teachers/school personnel......it's so bad, schools now have to present classwork in 'ethics'. Yes...a little calming can go a long way in the learning process.


In fact, if a child is INCAPABLE of sitting quietly and paying attention ( the basic lesson of Mindfulness ) then isn't it their duty to provide the remedial instruction necessary?



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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/7/2007 8:39:16 AM   
chey


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Joined: 7/1/2005
Status: offline 		In most schools these days we just do not have 20 mins. for doing nothing but being quiet unfortunately. There is just not enough time in the day to attempt to get everything in that is required. Even now the teachers do not seem to be able to do it. My class is predominantly made up of children with autism so it is not typical of the other rooms but I do see what goes on and listen to the other teachers at meetings.

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/7/2007 8:44:15 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

That is what needs to be taught to our kids.


Aw, look fellers...we got us a troll here...don't he got a purdy mouth on him?

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/7/2007 11:43:03 PM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline 		When I worked with higher needs students a long time ago I scheduled in daily quiet time in the afternoon and I would give everyone including myself really detailed pictures to colour in .... the students initally thought it was pretty silly however once their initial embarassment over doing 'kids stuff' was overcome I think they enjoyed it almost as much as I did! The class included children with ADD and ADHD, behavioural and intellectual difficulties.

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/8/2007 11:39:18 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

If you can't recite a simple prayer in your mind amongst the noise of others, than you have concentration issues not spiritual issues. 


Which, of course, learning how to meditate will help to fix, allowing one to say a simple prayer amidst the bustle and haste.

A synergy, if you will.

Buddhergy

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/8/2007 12:27:58 PM   
lovewithoutfear


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Joined: 7/11/2005
Status: offline 		"It's funny, but a LOT of people actually think so.  But there is no mention at all in the US Constitution that relates to a division between religion and state. "

Ummm...I suppose technically you are correct, but the First Amendment to the Constitution begins "Congess shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."  It is the dynamic tension between these "establishment" and "free exercise" clauses which has been the source of so much disagreement over things like prayer in schools for generations. 

Edited for spelling...  

< Message edited by lovewithoutfear -- 8/8/2007 12:29:23 PM >

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/8/2007 12:33:52 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

I am very patriotic - I love what was attempted with the United States experiment. But I am not much for swearing oaths...


And oddly enough, Christian scripture seems to frown on the same thing...so much so that literal Christian groups such as Quakers, won't swear an oath. 
Not that that has slowed down some self-proclaimed Christians from embracing it ( along with a lot of other things apparently banned or not even found in the Bible)

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/8/2007 12:37:34 PM   
came4U


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From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		I meditated in school but they called it boy-watching or daydreaming.  I was way ahead of my time. lol

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/8/2007 12:41:05 PM   
lovewithoutfear


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Status: offline 		"i have my own personal rasons for not saying the pledge, none of which have anything to do with religion"

Back in high school I used to say it all except the words "Under God" which were added in the 1950s.  I didn't think it was right to put everyone under one god whether they wanted to be or not.  And that was back when I was Christian.

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/8/2007 12:44:38 PM   
Estring


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Status: offline 		What happened to "learning" in schools? It's no wonder people can't spell or write a decent sentence anymore. 

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/8/2007 1:09:37 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Also went out in the 1950s, about the time the pledge was altered.

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/8/2007 3:42:38 PM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		You think? I've always attributed it to the development of the Professional Administrator class.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/8/2007 3:45:18 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		All right, as long as they hand out condoms afterwards.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

I agree with meditation AND prayer in schools.

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RE: Meditation in schools? - 8/8/2007 8:21:03 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		lol condoms

< Message edited by came4U -- 8/8/2007 8:26:30 PM >

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