quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

LordandMaster name like that and I've got a chip, Now that's funny as hell. (btw I know it's a funny ha ha name so save it)
Seen a few chips on your shoulder over the year or so as well Hi Mr Pot my name is Kettle.

Not asking for a flippin salute mearly basic academic honesty, I figure asking someone to read and understand the source document when a link is provided before forming an opinion isn't too much to ask in a discussion.

Want propety taxes discussed as part of the total taxation picture? Lets see what color are those coastal states that have the higher property tax bills you compain about? Majority BLUE. 12 states D 5 states red if I recall correctly. If the state that set the taxes is Democratic run how is it the Republican's fault???

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Greetings Orion,

I've always believed in a flat tax. 

What I'm really writing about, though, is that the power to enact this sort of sweeping system wide change doesn't exist anymore.  It would require the sort of media attention that the powers that be will never, ever, ever, ever permit.

For the same reason you'll never hear about a class action lawsuit against Ted Turner on CNN, the very media industry that profits from this sort of change has zero incentive to address the issue.  Because we rely on corporations for the majority of our news, the version of the news we receive will always be 'corporate friendly.'  Why do you think not one major newspaper excludes a 'sports' section if you doubt this.

Stephan

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Archer,

1.  Not everything has to be a confrontation.  With you, it's always, either (a) agree with you totally, or (b) be prepared for a pissing contest.  It makes people not want to talk to you.

quote:



2.  What I am saying has nothing to do with the source document.  That's the point.  The source document may as well be referring to taxation on Neptune.  It's irrelevant to me and most ordinary Americans.  (Who WOULD benefit from this new plan?  The mega-rich, who actually pay a lot in federal taxes--though a lot less than they used to.  Surprise surprise.)

quote:


3.  It's not Red vs. Blue.  At least, that's not how I view politics.  Politics to me is how do we make a better world.  I couldn't care less whom I am supposed to "blame" for the fact that my property taxes (and those of most ordinary Americans) are too high.  All I care about is who has an idea to improve the situation.  And, guess what: Republicans don't.

quote:


Now bye bye, because I'm tired of arguing with you.  Sometimes you actually say interesting things, and then as soon as someone has a different point of view, you start acting like a bulldog.  It's a bore.

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ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

You know I was thinking about this tax a bit, and I'm not so sure it would be as advantageous to corporate tax reduction as first appears. Currently, corporations get to write everything off against their taxes, like fuel, dinners for soliciting clients, corporate trips, Motels, Car rentals, office supply expenses, everything pretty much.

Now, I don't know but we do take advantage of that when we go somewhere for business, and eat out, motels etc... Sorta, you know taking more time than one really needs to, staying an extra day because it's getting written off, etc.... still it falls under the rules.  But if all that kind of thing was not a write off. Well, you can be sure the corporations would be running those kind of things way more efficiently instead of using them as an executive perk machine. Which is what it is really. Company meeting in Las Vegas for example. Why in las Vegas, because company can give a nice trip and write it all off, that's why. So, you go to a couple hour company meeting then party time!!.

It seems that kind of waste would stop or be treated for what it really is anyway, a vacation that is taxed.

Anywho, that is a good thing in my book.

I'm not sure how much the average corporation pays for write-offable stuff, or activities, but it seems it would be quite a lot. So, the taxes would increase on corporations in that regard. How much versus traditional taxes is unknown. But multinationals typically pay very little tax anyway, because they offshore the tax burden to favourable tax countries via accounting manipulation. So, it would seem large multinationals, would finally lose their ability to move profits in order to avoid taxation, at least they wouldn't move them from the US, maybe they'd move the profits to the US for a change.

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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

quote:


3.  It's not Red vs. Blue.  At least, that's not how I view politics.  Politics to me is how do we make a better world.  I couldn't care less whom I am supposed to "blame" for the fact that my property taxes (and those of most ordinary Americans) are too high.  All I care about is who has an idea to improve the situation.  And, guess what: Republicans don't.

I thought you made a comment about the republicans that were supporting it, I must be mistaken. Regardless though, property tax is a local matter, not a federal one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

That's exactly like FatDomDaddy telling me that the states are responsible for fixing bridges, not the federal government.  It's just an ideologically laden way of saying that you don't have a solution to the problem.  States aren't going to fix bridges because they can't afford it, and municipalities aren't going to lower property taxes because they can't afford it either.  In effect, what you're saying is this: Let's just have crumbling bridges and escalating local taxes.  It's someone else's responsibility, not mine.

What a country!

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

quote:


3.  It's not Red vs. Blue.  At least, that's not how I view politics.  Politics to me is how do we make a better world.  I couldn't care less whom I am supposed to "blame" for the fact that my property taxes (and those of most ordinary Americans) are too high.  All I care about is who has an idea to improve the situation.  And, guess what: Republicans don't.

I thought you made a comment about the republicans that were supporting it, I must be mistaken. Regardless though, property tax is a local matter, not a federal one.

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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Well LAM you can lay the responsibility off to the feds, beg them to take care of you, and let the nanny gov do everything. Or you can do like what we have done in our area, and have a study done on how property taxes are assessed compared to actual value, which include revenue capability. Damn we found out that commercial property was not be assessed as it should be. Rather than stick it to them, though both were a raise in their property taxes, they had two choices 1) Create a certain amount of green space, bicycle, and golf cart paths on their property and get a lower rate or not and pay a higher rate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
My federal taxes can hardly go lower at this point.  I hear congressmen and presidential candidates jabbering about some tax plan that would replace federal income taxes with a 23% sales tax, and that's not going to do jackshit for me.

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ORIGINAL: Durus

The Fair Tax includes repeal of the 16th amendment.

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ORIGINAL: Archer

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ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

Question.....no I havent done much research into this other than listning to Neil Boortz...so forgive my ignorance...

But, everthing Ive seen and read over this fair tax idea since this thread started...its only talking about federal tax....so does that mean if it passes, we will still be paying the state and local taxes too? I know all states dont do it, but some have a yearly income tax that works just about the same way the federal taxes do...plus the 7 or 8 percent on all sales....

Correct it has no effect at all on how the States or local governments collect their taxes. It only changes how the federal taxes are calculated and collected.

States are not expected to do anything from this law except act as a collection agent. (ie they use the same system they already use for their sales taxes to collect and then put the new federal tax into an account to be transfered to the Federal Government)

right and there is no use even talking about if they do not repeal the 16th first.  what they will do is run the tax bill though and forget about repealing the 16th and the states then can still tax the shit out of us even more than we are now.

at least now as it is we still have enough rights to fight them because they pulled a usurpation scam on us and we are zeroing in  and they know it.

this wonderful tax plan isnt jumping from the frying pan to the fire its jumping from the grill into the coals!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
2.  What I am saying has nothing to do with the source document.  That's the point.  The source document may as well be referring to taxation on Neptune.  It's irrelevant to me and most ordinary Americans.  (Who WOULD benefit from this new plan?  The mega-rich, who actually pay a lot in federal taxes--though a lot less than they used to.  Surprise surprise.)

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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
As to corporations getting taxed, then the stockholders getting taxed, that is a double tax and should be illegal. Just like there should be no gift or inheritance tax. The government is being just like the Mafia when they do that. Microsoft is an enitity that other make money from, so take the money that is actually being paid to individuals. The exception would be money paid to corps outside the US, and those should pay a hefty tax for making money here.

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ORIGINAL: Archer


Build a park (that would have come out of local taxes otherwise) or pay the taxes directly. Hmmmm remove the middleman it can be a win win.
So the company had to:     A. buy the land, or convert what was private property to public use
                                        B. Improve the land to park space for the benifit of the community
                                       
Could very well be a fair trade, could be a sweetheart deal odds are a little of both.

Taxation is a closed loop system when services remain the same.
Decrease them in one area they will increase in another.
The fundamental question is which level of government is most answerable to you as an individual.
Local government needs your individual vote more than the Federal candidates.
They are thus more responsive to your needs and concerns.
State level reps need maybe 1/10th the votes compared to a federal level representative.
1 vote hurts the local guy more.

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ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Isn't the killer to the fair tax the fact that other countries would have lower prices on goods, compared to the US at the retail checkout.

I see a situation where, lets say I live in Texas. I work in the US, were my income is not taxed at all, but rather taxed at the retail counter. So, I being a tax avoiding fool, LOL. Cross the border, on a massive shopping trip, and pick up all the non high taxed retail products in Mexico (seeing they tax income primarily and not at the counter), and crossing the border with my cheap goodies I bought on my non-taxed income. So I would effectively have avoided nearly all taxes except mexico's local sales taxes, which would be a pittance and wouldn't go to the US government.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Isn't the killer to the fair tax the fact that other countries would have lower prices on goods, compared to the US at the retail checkout.

I see a situation where, lets say I live in Texas. I work in the US, were my income is not taxed at all, but rather taxed at the retail counter. So, I being a tax avoiding fool, LOL. Cross the border, on a massive shopping trip, and pick up all the non high taxed retail products in Mexico (seeing they tax income primarily and not at the counter), and crossing the border with my cheap goodies I bought on my non-taxed income. So I would effectively have avoided nearly all taxes except mexico's local sales taxes, which would be a pittance and wouldn't go to the US government.

not if the NAU and national ID goes through!

The problem is corporatising everyuthing and there will be no escape from it and we think we have a monster now LOL