RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (Full Version)

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LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 9:11:34 AM)

I think we should take them out and do medical experiments on them



came4U -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 9:13:48 AM)

the point is this guy is on the net, giving out precious information about 'cool spots to view UM's'  I still stick that that is conspiracy to commit.

I thank God everyday my girls are now done university, teaching, working in banks, etc. If I had to go through raising lil's again I would scream bloody murder if that guy were in the vicinity of moi.



NorthernGent -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 9:23:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressKennidee

I have to take in the what if it was my children statment here. As a mom if some one was thinking of or providing means for someone else to think about my kids or anyones elses in that way, even if they weren't acting on it at the moment. I would take the steps to prevent it from ever coming to more. If the law didn't step in I think it would come down to a lynch mob. I am usually a pretty tolerant person but hurt my kids or even consider hurting my kids and tolerence is going to go out the window.


I think this gets to the root of the issue; we can all wax lyrical about freedom, but how would people feel if it was an area where your children lived? If the answer is that you would pursue the freedom of your children to not be subjected to this threat, then you can only arrive at one view in this case.



NorthernGent -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 9:31:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDennyslave

Most sexual abuse is committed by a family member, or friend of the family. 



That is very true. There should be more education for parents in this area, so they realise this.

Apparently, sexual abusers are usually family members who pay extra attention to children; they always seem to have children on their knees and touch them a lot: apparently, it is noticeable to the trained eye.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDennyslave

The bottom line is this, you can have any website you want on here, promoting legal or illegal activites. But it is up to us, as the parents to protect our children. Not the neighbors, not the government. us, the parents.



You have to be joking, surely? You can't watch your children every hour of the day, every day of the year. Children need the room to breathe, and do what children do: climb trees, play football etc, and unless you're prepared to climb trees with them, then you're not going to be there. The community and the rule of law work in conjunction to support the community.



MistressKennidee -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 9:38:58 AM)

I agree teaching UM self defense and how to handle a situation if it arises is a very good idea. But I would also do everything in my power to prevent them from having to be in that type of situation and if that includes stepping on the rights of someone who has not acted on their impulses yet but is showing all signs of or helping others do so then so be it. Protecting my kids and any other kids in this situation comes first.



EvilCrimeLord -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 9:41:32 AM)

To understand if this is or not a thought crime or inciting acts of crime you have to look at an unrelated issue; how long do websites condoning or supporting acts of terrorism last? We should care as much about children’s safety as we do about preventing terrorism. Prevention is better than cure and before anyone compares this with the proposed UK laws relating to Violent Porn you have to remember that those laws are aimed at protecting consenting adults from themselves.



SoftKajira -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 9:47:44 AM)

Very well said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressKennidee

I agree teaching UM self defense and how to handle a situation if it arises is a very good idea. But I would also do everything in my power to prevent them from having to be in that type of situation and if that includes stepping on the rights of someone who has not acted on their impulses yet but is showing all signs of or helping others do so then so be it. Protecting my kids and any other kids in this situation comes first.



angelic -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 9:52:33 AM)

FR
i have read alot of this thread (not everything i sorta skimmed).  Somewhere along the line i got the impression that this was happening in CA and although bothered by it, it really had no immediate affect on me.  Now, i have been up to my eyeballs in legal theories, causes of action, legal research, etc. due to a class i am taking.  i had read about this briefly (obviously not close enough).  Imagine my surprise when i find out this guy is right here living amongst ME.  Well, that put a whole different spin on it.  i have tried to locate the site (has it been taken down?) to find out where this guy is saying children are to warn friends, family and loved ones. 

i do not understand is how this is "thought policing".  i have tons and tons of thoughts and as long as i do not publish them they hurt no one.  It seems to me that once this guy published his thoughts, it is no longer policing thoughts, but policing a potential criminal activity.  That happens all the time.  The local police get word that there are odd comings and goings at a home located in xyz, they start paying a little closer attention to the home at xyz.  Or they get word that there are odd odors coming from the house next door...two days later the house is raided and a meth lab is discovered. 

i just do not understand how this is thought policing.  He committed a crime by publishing to a specific group of people how to accomplish an illegal activity.... didn't he?



came4U -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 9:54:08 AM)

Protecting kids from this creep that ISN'T supposed to be spying on school children to begin with in RL, and allowing him to post his fave spots for sniffing out innocent UM's  who have the right to NOT be lurked upon nor written about is NOT a valid arguement to misuse any freedom act. He lost his ability to have 'freedom' when he was convicted and placed under a direct court signed order.



MistressKennidee -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 10:04:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilCrimeLord

To understand if this is or not a thought crime or inciting acts of crime you have to look at an unrelated issue.


If you can look at it from a different standpoint then thats all well and good. As a parent I can't there is no gray area to me. If anything threatens the safety of my kids or any other child then biased as it may seem I am going to do everything to keep them safe.



EvilCrimeLord -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 10:06:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressKennidee

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilCrimeLord

To understand if this is or not a thought crime or inciting acts of crime you have to look at an unrelated issue.


If you can look at it from a different standpoint then thats all well and good. As a parent I can't there is no gray area to me. If anything threatens the safety of my kids or any other child then biased as it may seem I am going to do everything to keep them safe.


There is no grey area for me either which is what I was trying to point out.



MistressKennidee -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 10:11:01 AM)

Went back and read the original post. Sorry misread some of it this sort of topic gets me a little soapboxish .



Sinergy -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 12:11:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FYIinFL

I am curious how many of the posters who argue for Jack and his site as well as other pedophiles have young children or grandchildren.



You seem to misunderstand our objections, FYIinFL.  I am opposed to pedophilia.  My arguments here revolve around the institution of a police state in our country, based on the idea that we should proactively stop crime before it happens.  It is a fundamental idea our Constitutional system is based around; innocent until proven guilty.  He does something reprehensible, however, he has not done anything illegal.

It is a slippery slope.  We stop him before he does something, eventually somebody stops you for the belief that you might someday do something.  Who do you think will come to protect your rights when that happens?

This might clarify things for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

Before you attack me, I want to point out that I am doing something proactive with my life to end the cycle of violence against people.

What have you done lately to stop this, apart from promoting a witch hunt against a man who has not broken the law?

Sinergy

edited for verb tense issues



NorthernGent -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 12:24:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

innocent until proven guilty. 



Fair enough.

He is guilty of inciting a crime, however; paedophiles with children will lead to one outcome, but whether or not you believe that to be a crime in itself is your call.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

It is a slippery slope.  We stop him before he does something, eventually somebody stops you for the belief that you might someday do something. 



Why do think that setting a precedent for paedophilia is akin to setting a precedent across the board: what is comparable to this? Can you give an example of this "eventually somebody stops you for the belief that you might someday do something"? What do you have in mind, Sinergy?



EvilCrimeLord -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 12:30:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

This might clarify things for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...



I agree with that poem always have; for evil to win all that it takes is for good people to stand by and do nothing. The trouble with that is you can flip it on its head and say for evil to win all it takes is for people to ignore threats. Getting laws right is hard but this individual seems to be encouraging crime and who is going to stand by and do nothing?



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 12:35:51 PM)

you know when it comes to spying on things i am all for knowing what goes on in school to know kids are safe and not being harmed by other kids or teachers or outside preditors put a camera in every class and hall school s hould be a safe place to learn thats is it point blank



MasterDennyslave -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 12:38:58 PM)





I'm sorry, I wasn't very specific in my post. My hands went faster than my brain....lol. I'm talking about when we are out with our children,  to stores, ball games, etc........Yes, I know our children need room to breathe, otherwise we will create a society of paranoid adolescents and adults.

I also wish that I had killed the bastard. But this started in 1966, a time when all children were taught to respect their elders, do what they said, so on and so forth. I was a very scared 5 year old child, looking for protection, and not finding any.  When the 2 people I thought were supposed to keep me safe, didnt, I lost all trust in other adults in my life to keep me safe also. Teachers, aunts, uncles, the list goes on and on.

At that time, no one thought that they would need to teach children how to keep themselves safe. It is very unfortunate that we have to teach them now. Havijng been through sexual abuse myself, I'm very concious of any kind of over attention being given to my grandchildren by anyone.

It has taken me 34 years to heal. And I'm still not done healing. Never will be either.  I'm very lucky to have a master that understands my fears, and has asked me to tell him if anything he wants to do is uncomfortable for me, or might bring flashbacks.





fadedlace -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 12:54:06 PM)

Admittedly, I stopped reading this thread after post 59...however, as yet, I have seen no one broach the subject of this as written in the Foxnews article:

"The man who runs it, 45-year-old Jack McClellan, has never been convicted of a sex crime, which means he can attend any family-friendly events where children are present, and take all the pictures he wants for his Web site. He also lives close to a school bus stop.
McClellan says his purpose is to promote association, friendship and legal, consensual hugging and cuddling between men and pre-pubescent girls. He admitted to FOX News that his "age of attraction" is between 3 and 11 years old."

He's not only telling pedophiles where to find young girls, he's been taking photographs of them and posting them on his website...thereby targeting these young children for criminal activity.  I'd think at the least, the parents could file civil suits on behalf of those children whose photos are being used on a website without their permission.

Common sense and parents' ability to protect and defend their children, seem to have been overrun by the politically correct "let's not offend the criminals and lunatics because that's mean" crowd.  Screw that.  My little ones rely on me to protect them, and I DAMN sure will.



SmokingGun82 -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 1:06:29 PM)

After reading a majority of what's been written on this topic, I default to my standard statement when freedom of speech/expression comes up: popular speech doesn't need to be protected.

Meaning, simply, that in order to have free speech, we have to protect people saying things other people don't like. This guy is saying he wants to fuck people the law says it isn't ok to fuck- that might be sick to you, or to me, but that doesn't mean he doesn't (or shouldn't) have the right to say it.

But hey, I'm a Libertarian, what do I know?





ShyMistress -> RE: Thought Police? Where is the line drawn? (8/12/2007 1:32:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Briefly,

Consider the public outcry, if he was caught holding twenty minors of the local city in his basement, and using them in illegal manners.

There is no way for the city to win here; there would be twenty civil suits on their hands, for failing to prevent the clear and obvious threat the man was posing.  The legal standard in civil court is very different from criminal.

What should be done, is this man should be sued, in civil court, for the suggestive content of his site by child advocacy groups.  He won't go to jail, but he'd be left so broke he couldn't so much as buy a camera.

Stephan


 
*applauds* Excellent idea!



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