petdave
Posts: 2479
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quote:
ORIGINAL: catize
This raises many questions for me. Is it okay to be intolerant of intolerance?
< I believe that it is, but I’m not sure I can tell you why>
Is there a point where acceptance leads to acquiescence of harm?
Is nothing universally wrong?
I’m not being snarky here. I struggle with this concept. I am fairly understanding of differences……yet sometimes I think we work so hard at tolerance that we are afraid to take a stand against bad things. I’m not articulating this very well and perhaps I’m overthinking your post.
i think it's more that you're expanding the scope of the original issue.
The questions you've raised are ones that often come up in reactions to "Political Correctness" in the vanilla world, but they're equally valid in discussion of the D/s lifestyle.
In discussions of "PC", they're usually raising issues of imposing "Western values" on the way another culture treats the individual. Then you get into issues like hegemony and the practicalities of the freedom of religious observance... can get very messy.
Here, IMO, things are a bit more straightforward.
Let's take for granted that a mentally competant adult can consent to give up their right to make personal decisions to another for their mutual gain, and that they may also consent to receive physical punishment and/or injury, on the basis that it is their life and body. This is "acceptable". However, it is "wrong" to injure someone- physically, mentally, emotionally- WITHOUT their consent. In my opinion, these points are fairly fundamental to the concept of consensual BDSM.
Can we agree to this?
If this is accepted, then some things become clear.
An observer has the right to any thoughts or feelings they have about an activity. No one can truly take that away from you.
However, once you start expressing those thoughts, you involve others.
If someone addresses a public forum such as this with a request for feedback on the safety of an activity (that does not violate the TOS), they are implicitly consenting to criticism. True.
If you have reason to believe that the activity is unsafe/harmful, then offering educated, objective feedback as to WHY is the act of a responsible community member.
If you have no particular knowledge of the activity, but feel that it is distasteful, expressing that you, yourself, do not like it contributes nothing of value to the discussion. Neither right nor wrong, it is simply noise.
If you express that the activity is "wrong"/immoral/disgusting/perverted/etc., then you are being intolerant.
If you then go on to malign the character, mental health, or morality of someone based on this activity (again, assuming the activity takes place between consenting adults)- you're now more or less assaulting them (in the online sense) without their consent. (Assuming that they said "Is this healthy?"/"What do you think of this?"/"Has anyone tried?" as opposed to "Mistresses, tell me what a naughty boy i am for wanting to do...")
Is it okay to not tolerate THIS?
i say that yes, for an online BDSM community to truly thrive, it is okay. Why? Consent. If consent is not our foundation, then what is?
And if consent is the foundation, then most of the lines are clear.
Allowing your Master to remove your fingers as part of a mutual amputation fetish? Acceptable. Physically injurious, but consensual.
Spanking your waitress for forgetting the cream in your coffee? Non-consensual. Not acceptable.
There is "wiggle room" in the definition of "adult", and there are some gray areas when it comes to involving third parties as observers (what exactly constitutes "harm" when all they're doing is watching?), but i feel that logically, consent answers 98% of questions as to what is right and wrong in the lifestyle. The problem is getting people to look past their own preconceived ideas and prejudices.
When i have the time, i like to do this by re-arranging the terms of the discussion to address their own interests (analogies are seldom all that far away), and explain how the application of the same degree of judgement would adversely affect their own lifestyle... that could easily be a full-time job, tho.
Really, at the end of the day, i think my Grandmother put it best.
quote:
If you can't say something nice
don't say anything at all
dumbass
(Just kidding. Gram loves me)
...dave
Btw, thank youz to Celeste and slaveluci for the kind words  i have a lot of experience in being "outcast", glad it's good for something!
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RE: Outcasts: Thick skins & Rats asses - 
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Well said!
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