Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (Full Version)

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MstrHellsFury -> Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 10:28:12 AM)

I'm just gonna throw this out there and hope I get some feedback on something that's been troubling to me for quite some time. I'm not new at this, been in the lifestyle for over 30 yrs, yet this seems to be a more modern day occurance. Why does the submissive/slave come across with so many demands in what she wants from a Dom/Master that at least to me it seems like she's more Domme/Top. I know things change with the times but I still see things as being all about the service to ME. Old Ways or not, all seek to have that final comfort, fulfillment of needs, but doesn't the Needs of Master come first and foremost, or is this where I'm getting lost?




slavedesires -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 10:37:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrHellsFury

I'm just gonna throw this out there and hope I get some feedback on something that's been troubling to me for quite some time. I'm not new at this, been in the lifestyle for over 30 yrs, yet this seems to be a more modern day occurance. Why does the submissive/slave come across with so many demands in what she wants from a Dom/Master that at least to me it seems like she's more Domme/Top. I know things change with the times but I still see things as being all about the service to ME. Old Ways or not, all seek to have that final comfort, fulfillment of needs, but doesn't the Needs of Master come first and foremost, or is this where I'm getting lost?



You are referring to the demands they have in their profiles about getting an email?
Like dont reply if you dont tell me what i should wear
or how you will punish me
or that you have a pic or i wont respond?

i know...tis a thing to understand.... wonders who is in control ???

~~shy

edited for spelling *sighs




nonuts4thshoney -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 10:41:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrHellsFury

I'm just gonna throw this out there and hope I get some feedback on something that's been troubling to me for quite some time. I'm not new at this, been in the lifestyle for over 30 yrs, yet this seems to be a more modern day occurance. Why does the submissive/slave come across with so many demands in what she wants from a Dom/Master that at least to me it seems like she's more Domme/Top. I know things change with the times but I still see things as being all about the service to ME. Old Ways or not, all seek to have that final comfort, fulfillment of needs, but doesn't the Needs of Master come first and foremost, or is this where I'm getting lost?


Yes in my opinion the needs of my Master come first. However, Master knows my needs as well because it is often discussed on the things that i want. i don't always get them but she takes them into consideration. i serve my Master in every way that i can and do all that is asked of me. i NEVER top bevause i feel that this is not my place to do so. and really i wouldn't want too. Maybe the ones you are refering to are switches not subs/slaves. Are these demands prior to starting the relationship or during?

-carolyn




Isolde -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 10:55:05 AM)

I think in a healthy relationship, the needs of both partners are being met at the same time, no matter their dynamic. It's true that in a BDSM relationship, the submissive is serving the dominant, and oftentimes that means s/he will place the dominant's own needs first, but a good dominant will also be sensitive to the submissive's needs and make sure they're not feeling neglected, taken for granted, etc. It is not just all about you. There are two in your relationship and to concern yourself only with what you feel you want and need, just because you're the dominant partner, strikes me as a quick way to a failed relationship. Being submissive doesn't mean that their needs have less importance, and it certainly doesn't mean they're worth less in their standing in the relationship.

(Disclaimer upon reading back what I just said: I'm not saying that's how you go about your relationships, MstrHellsFury; I was using 'you' in a general sense. Nor am I saying that there aren't submissives out there who wouldn't be perfectly happy in a relationship where their needs are considered only after their dominant's, by the dominant as well as themselves. This is just how I tend to interact with the world and how those I care about interact with me, so... my opinion, yadda yadda. [:)])

I see nothing wrong with being upfront about what you do and don't want from a relationship either. How else to know if someone will be a good match for you? What seem like demands to you might be absolute necessities for someone else's happiness.

Not to say that I don't think there are submissives out there who, for one reason or another, do attempt to overcontrol their relationships by setting unrealistic limits or are unwilling to allow those limits to evolve with the relationship as it goes on. But I don't believe that it's an epidemic. What I do believe is that it's difficult for people to empathize with differences in others, and so it's common when seeing those differences to think that (instead of their just being different) someone is making unrealistic demands, or not doing things correctly, or is a faker because they don't have the same philosophies, rules to live by, expectations, whatever.

Anyone who behaved as if it was all about them, all of the time, would make me wary. It wouldn't matter if they were submissive, dominant, switch, vanilla... someone who is incapable of looking away from themselves long enough to really notice the ones around them, particularly those who care about them, is someone I would just as soon avoid.




dsduck -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 10:55:51 AM)

i have to aggree with you...it seems the subs are toping with there demands. sad, sad




MstrHellsFury -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 11:08:27 AM)

I guess I should have been a little more clear in my posting. This deals with those who claim to be looking for someone. For all who seek, I know there are all degrees of preferences to what you may need, but the general view is to not seek them but demand them. I for one would never respond to anyone who feels that they need to make those demands on me. I believe that it takes a long time to really find that common ground between parties. To even think you'd get these things before walking in the shoes of the submissive your Master wants you to be is just plain stupid. You only get what you are given, nothing more. If you have that nature you'll understand this. I made this question because I'm confused as to what's real and what's just gameplay out there today. I'm wondering how do you find real in a world of so much window dressing.




Isolde -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 11:14:22 AM)

Could you give me an example of a demand that bothers you? I'm not sure if what you're disliking here is the tone being used or that they're asking for anything in advance of a relationship with you.

If you're taking issue with them phrasing their "needs'n'wants list" in a demanding way, I suppose I can understand how that might rub you the wrong way. If you're disapproving of a submissive setting criteria and necessities before they'll engage in a relationship, that they shouldn't and can't expect these things, or anything really, before they've "done their duty" to their dominant... I don't know that I can agree with you. Perhaps it's because, as you said, I don't have that nature or maybe it's because I'm not looking for someone right now.




slavedesires -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 11:19:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Isolde

Could you give me an example of a demand that bothers you? I'm not sure if what you're disliking here is the tone being used or that they're asking for anything in advance of a relationship with you.

If you're taking issue with them phrasing their "needs'n'wants list" in a demanding way, I suppose I can understand how that might rub you the wrong way. If you're disapproving of a submissive setting criteria and necessities before they'll engage in a relationship, that they shouldn't and can't expect these things, or anything really, before they've "done their duty" to their dominant... I don't know that I can agree with you. Perhaps it's because, as you said, I don't have that nature or maybe it's because I'm not looking for someone right now.



i listed on my post some of the demands i have read on girls' profiles

You are referring to the demands they have in their profiles about getting an email?
Like dont reply if you dont tell me what i should wear
or how you will punish me
or that you have a pic or i wont respond?

~~shy
who runs to edit the other post




Gauge -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 11:22:09 AM)

I am not being sarcastic so please bear with me.

I go into a restaurant. I look at the menu. I choose what appeals to me and I ignore the rest. Am I displaying dominance or just stating what I want for my meal?

There are things I want in a sub, I have the right to state that and actively seek those qualities out. There are things I don't want and will state that as well. A submissive has no right to state what they want and don't want in a potential mate? These are not the caveman days where the male would club the female over the head and drag her off (although to some this might sound like a good time). If a sub does not want a drug user, a drinker or a smoker as a mate are they being dominant by saying so? I don't think so. Compatibility is necessary for a relationship, without it we would all be terribly unhappy. If I found a sub that was into scat and I am not, would that be a good match? How would we know that unless we said so? It's important for someone to state what they are looking for so there is a better chance for a good fit for a potential relationship.




Isolde -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 11:28:17 AM)

Ah, sorry slavedesires. I missed that while I was going over the OP's reply.

I'm afraid I still don't see that as out of line or being too demanding. If this were a vanilla site and someone were to make similar statements, I don't think that they'd be seen as out of line. Similarly, just because one is a submissive doesn't mean that they have to settle for what they'll be given by any ol' person out there. Everyone has standards and to not set those standards out upfront is to set yourself up to be unhappy in a relationship. They are simply stating what they will be happy with in the same way dominants to. What it boils down to for me is that they are people too. They have a right to their standards, and to plainly speak those standards. If those don't mesh with what you're looking for, move on to the next profile.

On preview: Gauge summed it up far more clearly than I have been.

And on edit: As far as topping from the bottom goes...they can't top from the bottom with you until you are their dominant. They owe a stranger dominant nothing. So better that they be honest about their desires early on, so that you know they won't be a good match before they risk becoming your submissive and go on to "disappoint" you.




wednesday -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 1:18:44 PM)

The will to submit is, in itself, a desire. I don't think it makes someone any less submissive to be clear on what they are willing to submit to. They are, no matter how you slice it or what you might be into, still people. And people are given to individual preference.

When I submit, I am VERY clear on what I am willing to do and not do. And I think that the communication and consent is the dividing line between indulging my kink and being abused. I am not giving orders, I am merely creating a clear boundary as to what is acceptable and what is not. ANYTHING within the realm of acceptable can be brought into play, at his will. I am not saying "and now you will hit me, with this exact item I hand you." Nor am I saying "okay, now is the part when you tell me to do something for you." I am simply saying "these are the things you cannot do to me." I don't find that to be dominating him. I think that is just negotiation. If he feels limited by those things, or isn't creative enough to figure out what to do within that very wide expanse of acceptable activity... well... he's just not the guy for me.




littleone35 -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 1:32:42 PM)

I think it is very imptrtant to talk before you enter any kind of relationship. I assume you are not talking about hard limits i had some and my Master knew they were never going to change they were limits set in concrete. I do not think i was trying to top. He asked me thing i would never do and i told him that is just helped him set patamaters for our relantionshp. Maybe i am confused but setting limit before play is not topping. i THink change those limits in the middle could be condisered trying to top.

Just a girls opnion.

littleone




perverseangelic -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 3:34:01 PM)

Yes, service is largely about the dominant person.

HOWEVER, one has not agreed to serve the people who are viewing one's profile.

The way I see it, we -need- to make "demands" such that we can enter a service that will be about our partner's needs. If we don't mesh with that person, how can we abandon ourselves to them?

Demands or wants in a profile are a way of assuring you can find someone you can really belong to, in mind as well as in name. When I was looking I had some very firm demands-- that I needed someone who was tolerant of sexual orientations and genders that were non-normative, that I needed someone who could accept that I was a witch, that I needed someone who could know that I was an intelligent, thinking woman in addition to being property.

Demanding? Yes. However, those kinds of demands are moot with my partner and myself.

I tihnk you only see things like that as demands if you don't mesh with them.




ThatsMastertoyou -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 10:21:34 PM)

I see both sides of this issue, but I agree that there really is too much window dressing on this site. People, both M/F ... D/s that are using this, and other sites like it, as a a place to find short term kinky sex! I've been a Dom for 20 years and to me, it is not a short term adventure. A D/s relationship is long term and rarely about sex. Sex can be found anywhere, but to unlock a mind and push limits to shape that mind into being more accepting of the limits is an exciting thing.




imtempting -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 11:30:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge



There are things I want in a sub, I have the right to state that and actively seek those qualities out. There are things I don't want and will state that as well. A submissive has no right to state what they want and don't want in a potential mate? These are not the caveman days where the male would club the female over the head and drag her off (although to some this might sound like a good time). If a sub does not want a drug user, a drinker or a smoker as a mate are they being dominant by saying so? I don't think so. Compatibility is necessary for a relationship, without it we would all be terribly unhappy.


I cannot agree more with you. ( I love your caveman line). Im openly picky. I will not submit to the first Dominant that speaks to me. I need to make sure they have what I want before submitting.

In the end like it or not but the Submissive has the true power. The submissive submits, they let the Dominant take control.

In my opinion the Dominants get too influenced by power and think they are gods. A submissive can say No. Like it or not. Collard or not collard a submissive can still walk if they feel they are not getting what they want or being abused.

Im sure plenty of other Dominants would take that sub.




Jasmyn -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/2/2005 11:42:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrHellsFury

I'm just gonna throw this out there and hope I get some feedback on something that's been troubling to me for quite some time. I'm not new at this, been in the lifestyle for over 30 yrs, yet this seems to be a more modern day occurance. Why does the submissive/slave come across with so many demands in what she wants from a Dom/Master that at least to me it seems like she's more Domme/Top. I know things change with the times but I still see things as being all about the service to ME. Old Ways or not, all seek to have that final comfort, fulfillment of needs, but doesn't the Needs of Master come first and foremost, or is this where I'm getting lost?


lol HF ya not getting lost at all ... I've often said the majority of modern fem submissives are subinatrixes at heart




Jasmyn -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/3/2005 12:07:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting
In the end like it or not but the Submissive has the true power. The submissive submits, they let the Dominant take control.


If a sub believes they retain some kind of power in a power xchange relationship then they are only cheating themselves.




Gemeni -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/3/2005 12:41:58 AM)

This is because people approach things like they would a supermarket.

They expect people to fit a "shopping list."

Unfortunately, a Dominant is not a list of attributes,they remain simply human.

I have seen this many many times-and what it tells me, is that these people don't wish to submit to a mere mortal.

Thier desire is to be owned by a *fantasy*.




imtempting -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/3/2005 12:46:38 AM)

Would you Dominant someone that did not meet your needs?

Also a Dominant would be blinded if they thought they had total control. 24/7 living with your submissive and the submissive not working is the only possible was of having total control also having everyone know your in that style of relationship. Otherwise there are too many un-controllable factors to contend with.




Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Does Submissive/Slave=Domme/Top (7/3/2005 6:28:35 PM)

I believe I have every right to look for a dominant who is local, over 40, single, and not into whipping me until I am covered in bruises and welts. I want and need compatibility in my relationship.

Why wouldn't I have the right to state these things, to be clear, and save all the 25 yr old submissive men from Europe from wasting their time messaging me? (Not that it always works...still get those emails ::rolls eyes::)

These are things I consider important right now in my life, and they may change...and if they do, my profile changes.

It's not a shopping list, it's a way to cut down on emails from alll the dominants I wouldn't click with. I'd say it's efficient, not dominant.

Cin




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