RE: Being new, do we put to much pressure on ourselves... (Full Version)

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Archer -> RE: Being new, do we put to much pressure on ourselves... (8/10/2007 12:49:02 PM)

I see you as having half a really good point with this post.
The premise Question is valid, I do believe new folks put too much emphasis on fitting into a new definition of "Real/Twue ______". The example of not needing to have books about mother/ father/ sister/brother/ though is a false comparison (And to boot there are books and maazines on how to be a good parent, sibling, adult child, etc) The lack of generational continuity in western culture has created a market for books on roles we play in society. (we learn how to parent from our parents but we have decided that they didn't do it right so we have to fix it).

It's nothing inherrent in BDSM labels. When the people who we use for models to pattern our behavour after fail we are left in a void trying to reinvent the wheel, or copy a design that may be as flawed as the one we tossed out before.




SayaNereida -> RE: Being new, do we put to much pressure on ourselves... (8/10/2007 1:16:32 PM)

"It's nothing inherrent in BDSM labels. When the people who we use for models to pattern our behavour after fail we are left in a void trying to reinvent the wheel, or copy a design that may be as flawed as the one we tossed out before."

Good point and very true.
 
You said I had a half of a really good point, I'd be interested in the other half you would add, because I see your point, there are 'help books' out there for parenting, etc.

(we learn how to parent from our parents but we have decided that they didn't do it right so we have to fix it)

I know I did.  My parents believed in spankings as a method for teaching, I didn't.
 
Ironically, as a child I hated spankings but I beg for them now...hmmm.




iammachine -> RE: Being new, do we put to much pressure on ourselves... (8/10/2007 1:46:46 PM)

quote:

I ask this, how is this type of relationship truly any different than any other relationship you have?
...

There are no rule books for ANY relationships, why do people believe this is any different?


Really, I approach BDSM relationships in the same way that I do any other. I think for me, part of why I am attracted to this community/lifestyle, is that a lot of the things that I consider to be good practices that are generally unspoken "common sense" in most other contexts, are clearly defined and given a structure, removing a lot of the guess work. Even in a vanilla context, we might run into a lot of the same concepts - we just don't talk about them. In a BDSM context, we give it a label, a name, define a process and protocol.

No, there is no doctrine to clearly define how we interact or behave. In the kinky community, however, if you fail to keep certain standards that most people never even think about, it's obvious. For example, in a vanilla context, many people are just too damn shy to discuss their desires. In the BDSM context, if you don't negotiate with your partner, you're seen as weird. In a vanilla context, most people don't think twice about consent. When you're dealing with kink, if you don't put some thought into it - you run a serious risk of causing yourself a lot of trouble.

So, I guess for me, it comes down to structure, the lack thereof, and how we interpret our relationships.




julietsierra -> RE: Being new, do we put to much pressure on ourselves... (8/10/2007 3:56:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SayaNereida

I've only been here a short time, but have been reading the posts every day.  There have been many like me that are new and groping for understanding.
 
I'm beginning to wonder if many of us don't put too much pressure on ourselves, our partner, and the relationship by trying to understand, define and live a certain way.
 
All the questions of; should a Dom/sub/Master/slave do ***, am I a true/real *** and on and on.
 
I ask this, how is this type of relationship truly any different than any other relationship you have?
 
Did we need others or a book of rules to define us as daughters, wifes, mothers, fathers, sons, husbands, etc.?
 
There are no rule books for ANY relationships, why do people believe this is any different?
 
By the way, IS there a rule book or bible to bdsm that I haven't found yet? [sm=whoa.gif]


Actually, I'm going to go against the grain somewhat and say that for the most part, I don't think we put enough pressure on ourselves. Many of us walk into these kinds of relationships expecting things to be the same as they were in our other relationships. We play games and take stands all under the guise of "submission" when in actuality, we're still involved in power struggles.

Sometimes it takes some work to just shut up and see what happens rather than taking a stand and demanding things be a certain way when we have no understanding as to why we're making those demands.

When I first discovered all this, I spent a lot of time reading - not to find out what to do, but to see if how people were saying they were living their lives matched my ideas of how people should treat each other. Then I spent more time figuring out if I could live by the tenets I found in my studies.

As I learned more (and unlearned even more than that), I "tried on" different aspect of this life. Simply watching it from the outside was no way of learning whether it resonnated with me or not. So, yes, I tried to act in certain ways. Some of them were very wrong for me, some of them have clicked and I've adjusted my behavior and ways of thinking to incorporate those aspects into my life so that they are an integral part of who I am.

When I found someone who would teach me how he wanted things done, I embraced them wholeheartedly. First of all, I made a committment and I don't break my committments, so I did these things because they were a part of the relationship I was in. Most of all though, I did these things to see how they played in my head and with my emotions.

I worked hard and placed very stringent demands on myself - sometimes I think, they were even more stringent than the demands he made on me. I did this for a purpose and I was rarely swayed from that purpose.

When that relationship ended, I took all he taught and then just sat still while I allowed things to sort themselves out. Of all the things he taught, there were some that I found really didn't work for me. Those things I let go. There were some things he taught that have had a major influence in my life and those are the aspects of that relationship that I've held onto. Those were the aspects of a D/s relationship that I looked for in whomever might come along after that. And it was those aspects that I actively sought out and found in my Master.

Life with my Master is not always a bowl of cherries either, but I wouldn't change it for the world. Life is tough and sometimes I just want to utter "that's not fair!"  but never in my life have I worked so hard, pushed myself so strongly or learned so much. Along the way, I've discovered things about myself that simply going with the flow and operating as I always had done in  vanilla relationships would never have shown me.

My goal, now, as it has always been has been to become better at what I do, stretch myself to that line between growth and damage and assimilate what that teaches me about myself. I have never been the altruistic one mouthing the "if he's happy then I'm happy" mantra. I'm in this to be a better me. Through him, I'm being given opportunities to have this happen. Along the way, I submit and find myself more in tune with myself, and not coincidentally, more out of tune with how I might have lived my life in a vanilla world if I'd never heard of this.

So, while vanilla and D/s relationships can be similar, in a lot of ways, they are very different and for me, in my world, I'm learning what those differences are and finding out if I can live with them.

And no, there is no book that will designate a blanket way of acting for everyone, but there is good information in many books that will at least lead someone to contemplate how what they read might play in their lives and depending on how it resonnates with whomever is reading it, just may lead that person to a different way of responding to situations and people in their lives.

Ask any new mother who at 2 in the morning is frantically scanning Dr Spock's Baby Book while waiting for the pediatrician to return her call, and I guarantee you, there are books out there that do help mothers. If there wasn't the self-help section of the book stores wouldn't be so popular. However, just like with D/s, what anyone (mother, brother, sister, parent, daughter, etc) reads there will either be accepted or rejected, but once read, will become a part of our general knowledge and in subtle ways change us, even if we are rejecting what's been said. 

juliet




teamnoir -> RE: Being new, do we put to much pressure on ourselves... (8/10/2007 5:02:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SayaNereida

By the way, IS there a rule book or bible to bdsm that I haven't found yet? [sm=whoa.gif]


Yes. There are a number of them. :).

Oh, you probably wanted to know if there was any single, definitive, penultimate reference and the answer is "no, there isn't".




riadre -> RE: Being new, do we put to much pressure on ourselves... (8/10/2007 5:52:38 PM)

I am definitely very interested in this thread, being in almost exactly the same situation myself - I am very new to this lifestyle in the sense that I have recently engaged in a D/s relationship with my new pet, the first 'proper' D/s relationship I've had - which means I'm not counting the terrible follies of bratting vanillas as a sub (no need to comment on that, I'll regret it much more than any one else ever will [:D])
I was having some issues reconciling my experience of 'submission' and her definition of 'submission' which is radically different from my own - her needs, desires and requirement vary so greatly from my own (as a sub), I was confused at how to fulfil her needs as well as my own. And I was also very much interested in the 'am I a real Domme?' question - especially as I'd never thought of dominating anyone before.
But I did come here, mostly interested in seeing how other people in this community defined and undertook their lifestyles - and I've been mesmerised by the incredibly useful, inventive, creative and powerful messages, tips and ideas. But probably the best thing which I've learnt is that there is no single way in which D/s should be undertaken - I see the insecurities which underly the questions of 'am I doing it right?' as the same across the board in relationships - each one of us is driven to create the most fulfilling, satisfying, happy and positive relationship which we can, Dom/me and sub or vanillas alike. We see success in other relationships and we try to emulate these factors - but I think it would be incredibly stupid to try and comply to any single way of conducting your relationship simply because it seems to be what everyone else is doing. Sure, it may be working for them, and working wonders, too, but it is most important to sit down and take a chat to understand what you, personally, as a couple, want and need in your relationship, and then think of ways to attain that, regardless of what other people think or do.
I see it as - decorating your home. You run through magazines and find an idea of what suits your style, and then create that environment. Some things in the magazine will look nice and comfortable - yet it doesn't - to use the lovely word used by julietsierra - resonate with you. There is no point then, in recreating that picture, simply because all of your friends would walk in and think you have the best taste in the world - such as there is no point in living a set D/s lifestyle just so other people don't say you're a fake. It's up to you to define what is 'real' and 'fake' for you - and everyone else can either accept it or not (tempted to say 'or get lost'). I mean, categorising myself as a 'bisexual' and a 'switch' is going to hit a lot of buttons for some bdsmers and 'straight or gay' purists.
So what I suppose I'm saying is that in all aspects of life one defines one's own experiences and parameters, bouncing off other's ideas but defining your own nonetheless. [:)] Hope that helped!




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