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RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 7:30:48 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		 to answer your queries - yep i believe he does wants a kinky holiday.





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(in reply to ExquisiteFeline)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 7:32:52 AM   
ExquisiteFeline


Posts: 124
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone, i wouldn't have thought that it were a normal thing, but based upon what a lot of Doms send me, i wonder what other sub/slaves may be inviting into their lives.
Also, the person said he would travel across two states, as i said i could not relocate.
i am not as stupid enough to accept such an offer that arrives in my email box.

(its also cool on the training i listed, i realize all the services around and my lectuer's (the good ones) train me. i meditate regularly, and do yoga, belly dancing, rock climbing, self hypnosis-i can- not move a single muscle for over an hour and half, and i dont need drugs
for pain management) It was a bit tongue in cheek myself, i sure as hell would not be having sex training from a complete annon, from the net, at the click of a send button. But it does make me wonder if Dominants like that ever gain any success of such offers. i guess its like the typical bar pick up, ask a 100 girls for sex and one is bound to say yes, eventually, and if they fail, they could alway beat someone up at the end of the night, either way they will get some kind of relief and satisfaction ;)

Personally i have had a relationship with an Israeli man, this was very D/s, yet never defined as anything, and very beautiful. Naturally Israeli's think they are God's gift, they like to be in control, esp of their woman, they do it in a most alluring way and they are very passionate. i was in complete submission to him, yet he would never harm me in anyway, with most that i have known its hard to believe they spend most of their time killing Palestinians and the Lebanese. They are very clever at communicating with minimal words, my friends thought that he could not speak much English, but he more like to listen. Unfortunately Israelis generally have to go back to Jerusalem or rather Palestine.

In our societies D/s is a sub culture but in other parts of the world it is normal. My family know about my lifestyle choice and of course my Mother is horrified, "45 years of feminism and you want to go back to this!"



i am just very curious about what lifestyler's think training is. i have heard of places where ppl can go to pay for Master's and Mistress's services, is this a form of prostitution? Based upon sex- pain/pleasure? Is D/s training always, or, more often based upon sex?

If a submissive is a submissive then why should they be 'trained' to be told what to do? Don't they already have a submissive nature? And like to submit? Do as they are told, or they would not be a submissive?

Is D/s about breaking one's spirit or taking another's will? Controlling their every thought or move? And convincing them to do things they would not normally do and learning to enjoy it?


(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 8:03:41 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExquisiteFeline
i am just very curious about what lifestyler's think training is.

You already know- what is training in the vanilla world?  For an ee?  For an athlete?  
quote:

 i have heard of places where ppl can go to pay for Master's and Mistress's services, is this a form of prostitution? Based upon sex- pain/pleasure?

It's only a form of prostitution the same way that strippers or sex shop workers or lawyers are- it's services in return for payment.  These services happen to be kinky and edge on sexual.
quote:


Is D/s training always, or, more often based upon sex?

That's what most dorky newbies talk about.  But Ds is actually used most often to describe the relationship dynamic.  BDSM or kink is used to describe the play and kink.
quote:


If a submissive is a submissive then why should they be 'trained' to be told what to do? Don't they already have a submissive nature? And like to submit? Do as they are told, or they would not be a submissive?

So because you're a submissive that means you already know how to debate like I want you to debate, cook like I want you to cook, anticipate like I want you to anticipate and if I just ordered you to "Anticipate like I want you to!" you'd be able to do it?

No, I need to TRAIN you in how exactly I mean those things.
quote:


Is D/s about breaking one's spirit or taking another's will?

Oh some people might talk about that, but very few people have the time and resources to actually accomplish that, and even fewer could do it productively.

Mostly people just want to FEEL broken and go along with it for awhile.
quote:

Controlling their every thought or move?

That's fairly impossible really- dreams and all.  And really very tiring.  Most people use AUTHORITY and delegate so that the slaves make their lives easier.  Some elements they may directly control.
quote:


And convincing them to do things they would not normally do and learning to enjoy it?

Sometimes, but vanillas do this all the time also.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_788826/mpage_1/key_training/tm.htm#788974
training, what is it?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_722607/mpage_1/key_training/tm.htm#722635
submissive training

http://www.collarchat.com/m_629136/mpage_1/key_training/tm.htm#629145
slave training?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_583697/mpage_1/key_training/tm.htm#583741
Training

http://www.collarchat.com/m_583084/mpage_1/key_training/tm.htm#583098
On training

http://www.collarchat.com/m_503499/mpage_1/key_training/tm.htm#503734
training collar

http://www.collarchat.com/m_124898/mpage_1/key_collar/tm.htm#124898
Wearing training collar in public

http://www.collarchat.com/m_81449/mpage_1/key_collar/tm.htm#81449
What are the collar types/levels please?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_70392/mpage_1/key_collar/tm.htm#70392
Collars and collaring

http://www.collarchat.com/m_59686/mpage_1/key_collar/tm.htm#59686
Color of collars?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_428/mpage_1/key_collar/tm.htm#428
What is your definition of a training collar?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_402/mpage_1/key_collar/tm.htm#402
Multiple collars or single collar?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_450097/mpage_1/key_training/tm.htm#450103
types of training



_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ExquisiteFeline)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 8:10:09 AM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		Yes he wants a kinky holiday and there's nothing wrong with that.   Especially if there's someone out there willing to give him one.  

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to ExquisiteFeline)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 8:26:52 AM   
EldroRolod


Posts: 28
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline 		To agree with LuckyAlbatross, training is what the Master or Dom determines.  For instance, I'm training my sub as a pleasure slave.  She expressed an interest and accepted the task, and I whole-heartedly accepted the task of conducting her training.  But, every Dom, Domme, Master, etc. has their own opinions on what a pleasure slave should be like.   It comes down to what I want MY slave to be and how I want others to see her when I have her with me, or on display. 

My form of training is very psychological as well as physical.  The notion of forcing someone to do something they are against doing, and eventually making them enjoy it, is sort of misleading.  The goal is to bring the total submission out of the person so that they submit completely to your will.  Once in that state, if you are forcing them to do things they will later regret or resent, then you aren't a very good Master.

My slave will literally do [almost - lol] anything I ask of her or demand of her.  Serving me and pleasing me is what gives her pleasure, so it becomes my responsibility to ensure that I don't allow her to do anything that will bring her permanent mental, emotional, or physical harm. 

I've been an instructor and trainer as a profession for 20 years now and the one thing that is always true is that every student has different needs and different methods of absorbing the training.  It's my opinion that one sub/slave can't be trained exactly the same way as another because what works for one doesn't always work for anyone else.  So training must be clearly designed for the individual with a specific goal to achieve that satisfies the needs of both Master and slave.  Of course, training on specific issues such as how you want someone to kneel, present themselves, or perform a particular function can be consistent with other slaves, and in fact should be, but the advanced portions of their training should be tailored to them.

You CAN create a mental control within a sub/slave, but it isn't easy.  I have mine trained to cum on command.  That takes tremendous control and alot of training.  [started small.  it took months to accomplish it.]  But, that isn't something a part-time, weekend play partner will have an easy time doing.  We live together so I can work on issues like that whenever we wish.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 25
"That's what most dorky newbies talk about.RE: Tra... - 8/11/2007 8:34:59 AM   
ExquisiteFeline


Posts: 124
Status: offline 		Thanks for the links.
Some are helpful.

"That's what most dorky newbies talk about." good to see there is a healthy pecking order of bitchyness going on ;)

"So because you're a submissive that means you already know how to debate like I want you to debate, cook like I want you to cook, anticipate like I want you to anticipate and if I just ordered you to "Anticipate like I want you to!" you'd be able to do it?

No, I need to TRAIN you in how exactly I mean those things."

So no difference to most vanilla relationships really, someone usually wears the pants as such. D/s is more that there is an agreed understanding, therefore eliminates the conflict, as the roles are definitive.

k cool, guess i just keep going along as i always have then, with a better understanding now.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 10:52:18 AM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		I like to think of training, as 'customizing' for the most part, unless you're being trained in specific skillsets, which often has little to do with sex. Some people like their sex one way, some like it another, so there's no 'proper' way persay, though you can pick up lots of neato tricks along the way.

So using the customizing anaology. If you're shopping for a new car, and ALL of them are customized to someone elses personal perferences, will you ever find one that meets your wants exactly?  You might get lucky and find somethign close, but maybe it has fuzzy dice, and shag interior, and you hate fuzzy dice and shag! so you're just gonna have to recustomize it anyway. What if baby blue is an OK color, you could live with it.... but you're having the interior redone anyway, why not the exterior too since you're at it?

Everytime I have had discussions with Dominants who have potential interest in me, they always seem tickled pink by the idea of 'showing me' how they want things done. To the point now whenever I even playfully chat with Dominants I will teasingly ask them to teach me how they want it done, just to see that sparkle of gleeful amusement. Maybe that reaction is only themed in the types I talk to, but it seems a common trend to me. Lots of dominant types seem to enjoy shaping their prized pets, toys, sluts, slaves, what-have-you with their own hands, as a means to become close and intimate with their sub, as well as a way to express their own affections and pride. Afterall, if a Dominant shapes you, they can then take pride in you and get a little well-deserved ego stroke in, your performance become an achievement of mutual efforts.

I would personally rather stroke the ego of my long term partner, as opposed to someone who just wanted to loan me out short term for some fun.

< Message edited by ProlificNeeds -- 8/11/2007 10:56:21 AM >

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 10:59:48 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Yes, I don't understand this training thing.  Train you to what? Suck cock his prefered way? etc etc, ?

Learn how to be obedient? Learn how to cook, clean, sew as some have asked? Ask him how to train you how to change tires or oil..yowzer yum.

anyone who has searched for a while has had this 'train you for free' nonsense come up for yearsssssssssss.

sigh, again, you can go to Home Hardware and learn how to do-it-yourself for free (take home a handyman special-optional).  Training???, hong kong fooey, what ya thinkin' girl??

edit:

but I scrolled back to find
quote:

i have had a relationship with an Israeli man, this was very D/s, yet never defined as anything, and very beautiful. Naturally Israeli's think they are God's gift, they like to be in control, esp of their woman, they do it in a most alluring way and they are very passionate. i was in complete submission to him, yet he would never harm me in anyway, with most that i have known its hard to believe they spend most of their time killing Palestinians and the Lebanese. They are very clever at communicating with minimal words, my friends thought that he could not speak much English, but he more like to listen. Unfortunately Israelis generally have to go back to Jerusalem or rather Palestine.


huh? say what? is this a serious question to self-promote or a serious answer to defecate on jews? 

< Message edited by came4U -- 8/11/2007 11:18:24 AM >

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 11:52:17 AM   
cwytch


Posts: 26
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline 		When i started out in this lifestyle i met up with an exquisit man who became my Mentor..i knew nothing about proper protocol or the basics. fortunately this man did have my best intrest at heart although he also benefited from my zeal..bottom line is that there are people out there who are able to help in you training or more specifically your orientation but those people are few and far between and one should keep in mind that you get what you pay for..

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 12:14:32 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Israelis do not spend most of their time killing people. They spend three years in military service (the males) and two for females. They then work in the reserves yearly until age 50 unless they are at war. Most Israelis, like most police officers everywhere, never shoot anyone.

None of my family goes around bombing schools or grocery stores yet the Palestinians commonly do this to us.  Israelis do not go about having as part of their constitution that all Arabs must be driven into the sea yet the Palestinians have this about Jews.

As far as pushing around their women, not necessarily. Israeli women are more than capable of pushing back. My most submissive female cousin is with a man who treats her and their children always with great respect and great tenderness.

In terms of training to be more successful, get a life coach.

(in reply to cwytch)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 12:53:05 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		I cannot fathom why that comment was even mentioned in whatevertheflippinhell this was about, or what it has to do with training a sub?

cheap shots? who knows, I gonna stop before I end up dissin this into a political thread LOL.

<holds tongue, fingers, how one can wiggle out of this one with me or anyone else?? I am not sure. I have seen and written some funky stuff, but ........................

sigh, gags herself.

< Message edited by came4U -- 8/11/2007 1:07:16 PM >

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 1:19:10 PM   
PAcpllooking


Posts: 73
Joined: 5/14/2004
Status: offline 		I agree with most of everything said here in response to the question asked.
But I also want to throw something out there that no one as mentioned.
There are those who are new to the life who have no idea what they are into or what they are capable of or even if they really want to live the lifestyle. Books and websites are good for info but they cant provide real experience.
People need real experience before they even know what type Master or sub they want or want to be. Otherwise they are just going from relationship to relationship screwing themselves up and the ones they have relationships with.
We all see how many people have nothing but problems meeting others and having long term successful relationships. In many cases its because they have choosen the wrong person to meet thier needs and in many cases its because they didnt know thier needs in the first place.
Now I am not suggesting that you get involved with a stranger to get experience, hell no, but it is a wise thing to meet people who can give them experience and explain things to them in a face to face situation.

William

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 1:52:03 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExquisiteFeline

i have just been offered 3 weeks training in anyway i want, that will suit the kind of Master that i will want. ...


well.... before you sign on the dotted line... I would check out the guarantee on this deal.  What happens if his 3 week intense training program fails to suit the Master that you want.  Can you go back to him and get your money back?  Or maybe he will give you another 3 weeks training for free to suit this Master that you want.



_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ExquisiteFeline)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 6:46:00 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

Yes, I don't understand this training thing.  Train you to what? Suck cock his prefered way? etc etc, ?

Learn how to be obedient? Learn how to cook, clean, sew as some have asked? Ask him how to train you how to change tires or oil..yowzer yum.

anyone who has searched for a while has had this 'train you for free' nonsense come up for yearsssssssssss.

sigh, again, you can go to Home Hardware and learn how to do-it-yourself for free (take home a handyman special-optional).  Training???, hong kong fooey, what ya thinkin' girl??

Training does have its place, there are indeed things a submissive can (and sometimes should) be trained to do.  The problem with most "offers" of training is that they are bogus, and so whole concept gets a bad rep.  There simply is NO form of universal slave or submissive training... doesn't exist, period.

There is however specific forms of training in specific skills.  Which skills are desired will depend on the dominant and also on what skills the submissive may lack.

I have often heard submissives suggest they don't need to be trained to suck cock... you'd be surprised how many are wrong.  Virtually every woman I've ever known or dated has claimed they were great at sucking cock.  The majority weren't nearly as talented as they imagined themselves and bursting that bubble was a blow to their egos.  Likewise, most weren't as talented in other areas either.  Some were simply clueless. 

Similarly, yes indeed learn how to cook, clean, manage the house, and trim the hedges if that's what is required.  Its called a service submissive.  Learning to do those things to suit a specific dominant absolutely will require specific instruction.

Anytime I see a submissive claim they don't need any training... I know I'm dealing with yet another submissive with an ego problem.  Training means learning to do things in a way that pleases the dominant.  Any submissive who is too egotistical or insecure to learn how to please the dominant is going to be a problem.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to came4U)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Training cont... - 8/11/2007 7:59:18 PM   
ExquisiteFeline


Posts: 124
Status: offline 		Why in the hell would i defaecate on Jews, i have a Jewish name, i have Jewish blood, but i also have Spanish, Italian, English and Nordic Blood, finally societies are coming to a soup pot.
i was most upset when my bf had to leave and go back to drive a tank, a tank that is loaded with weapons. i dont know if he has killed anyone, he would not talk about Palestine, politics, or war, he was in Australia where he did not have to think about that. I was expressing an experience i had with people from another part of the world, people that i found to be beautiful, and enlightened my understanding from the bigoted society we live in.
Anyway i was not meaning to start a political debate i was drawing upon the experience that i have had with men from other cultures to express D/s is not always a 'sub culture'. It isnt even in our society either, and it isnt in nature, feminism may have attempted to break male dominance, in the western world, but when speaking to another cultured woman, they feel sorry for the western woman, because in her eyes western woman does not know her place. Feminism has been around a long long time, but its power in the western world was in succession during and post-war. A period when our men came back carrying there wounds, scars and trauma, from the cold war, to a total reorganization of society and family structures. Women learnt how adaptable and capable they were, women did all the work, and ran the homes and communities, its not surprising when the men came back and when honeymoon periods were over that some women did not want to respond to mens demands and dominance, they had tasted something else. But from what we all learn from D/s, it is not necessary a class, gender or cultural thing, but it can be, and where we see how the Dominance is organized in the world, it is easy why people see it as a bad thing.
My mother may ask me why i want to go back to the 'dark ages' of relationships, but then she was becoming an adult during the 70's, a period when the post war work of feminism was really gaining its momentum of liberal enlightenment. But hey since then how many marriges and relationships actually last? How have the structures of families and relationships been dis functioned into conflict, or lethargy. How many domestic violence centers are under funded and over filled, with women who can gain counseling and support?
What about then men? It is easy to point the finger and say bad, bad, bad, but how are ALL the victims of gender violence rehabilitated? After all it is a cycle of conflict, women are pushing just as much as the men before the phosphorus comes out. But when the phosphorus does come out who generally wins? The one that is physically stronger, but isn't that person also a victim of abuse also?
I am not at all saying feminism is wrong, and certainly not dossing out on any Domme's, all i can say is that i am not attracted to submissive men, my experience with men that are not Alpha is that they are passive-aggressive and mind fuckers, and hey- before anyone bites that bait i said MY experience.
i like Alpha-types, i like to feel possessed, owned and protected. But there has to be balance, not all brawn and no brain, i like men to be physically, psychologically strong. i like to be controlled and Dominated. But his strength should guide me up a mountain, not down a mineshaft.

Well i have opened 15 cans of worms now, totally off the subject of training, but hey i am sure a few are going to open fire.

EDIT
oh and i never mentioned that Israeli men push their women around, i stated i had a naturally beautiful D/s relationship. Most of the world is struggling for power in some way, be it nations, men, women or nature her very self...

< Message edited by ExquisiteFeline -- 8/11/2007 8:19:48 PM >

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: "That's what most dorky newbies talk about.RE:... - 8/12/2007 5:05:12 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExquisiteFeline
\"That's what most dorky newbies talk about." good to see there is a healthy pecking order of bitchyness going on ;)

Spend 9 years around them- then decide for yourself if you consider them dorky newbies.

quote:

So no difference to most vanilla relationships really, someone usually wears the pants as such.

As I said, training occurs in most aspects of life from the moment we're potty and language trained onward.  I don't know why people think Ds is going to be different in that there will be "special" training or no training at all.

quote:

 D/s is more that there is an agreed understanding, therefore eliminates the conflict, as the roles are definitive.

In the cases of there actually BEING an agreed understanding.  I'm sure you'll see over time that Ds relationships are really just as confused on what's expected and going on as vanilla relationships are.


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ExquisiteFeline)
Profile   Post #: 36
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