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And now.... the news. - 8/11/2007 3:03:07 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Church cancels memorial for gay Navy vet
By ANGELA K. BROWN, Associated Press Writer 7 minutes ago

A megachurch canceled a memorial service for a Navy veteran 24 hours before it was to start because the deceased was gay.

Officials at the nondenominational High Point Church knew that Cecil Howard Sinclair was gay when they offered to host his service, said his sister, Kathleen Wright. But after his obituary listed his life partner as one of his survivors, she said, it was called off.

"It's a slap in the face. It's like, 'Oh, we're sorry he died, but he's gay so we can't help you,'" she said Friday.

Wright said High Point offered to hold the service for Sinclair because their brother is a janitor there. Sinclair, who served in the first Gulf War, died Monday at age 46 from an infection after surgery to prepare him for a heart transplant.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070811/ap_on_re_us/gay_funeral;_ylt=AvbCXK_HLbqBTnI5MUJgh.Ws0NUE


Nearly 80 percent of India lives on half dollar a day
Fri Aug 10, 10:08 AM ET

Seventy-seven percent of Indians -- about 836 million people -- live on less than half a dollar a day in one of the world's hottest economies, a government report said.

The state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganized Sector (NCEUS) said most of those living on below 20 rupees (50 US cents) per day were from the informal labor sector with no job or social security, living in abject poverty.

"For most of them, conditions of work are utterly deplorable and livelihood options extremely few," said the report, entitled "Conditions of Work and Promotion of Livelihoods in the Unorganized Sector," seen by Reuters on Friday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070810/wl_nm/india_poor_dc;_ylt=As943XAOUZcydyzZn3zCRbMQr7sF


Giuliani: I misspoke about ground zero
By LIBBY QUAID, Associated Press WriterSat Aug 11, 2:47 AM ET

Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani said Friday that he misspoke when he said he spent as much time, if not more, at ground zero exposed to the same health risks as workers combing the site after the Sept. 11 attacks.

"I think I could have said it better," he told nationally syndicated radio host Mike Gallagher. "You know, what I was saying was, 'I'm there with you.'"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070811/ap_on_el_pr/giuliani_ground_zero;_ylt=AtTMblh_Shz5kwIYm2J0BpKyFz4D


Sheehan announces House candidacy
By SUDHIN THANAWALA, Associated Press WriterThu Aug 9, 6:28 PM ET

A tearful Cindy Sheehan cited her son, killed in Iraq, as her inspiration as she announced her candidacy Thursday for the U.S. House against Rep. Nancy Pelosi.

Sheehan last month said she intended to run against Pelosi, the House speaker, if the San Francisco congresswoman didn't move to impeach President Bush by July 23.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070809/ap_on_el_ho/cindy_sheehan_pelosi;_ylt=AjoXzJO65uY45JDyeYI23DyyFz4D




< Message edited by Level -- 8/11/2007 3:04:11 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/11/2007 6:42:18 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
A megachurch canceled a memorial service for a Navy veteran 24 hours before it was to start because the deceased was gay.

Officials at the nondenominational High Point Church knew that Cecil Howard Sinclair was gay when they offered to host his service, said his sister, Kathleen Wright. But after his obituary listed his life partner as one of his survivors, she said, it was called off.

"It's a slap in the face. It's like, 'Oh, we're sorry he died, but he's gay so we can't help you,'" she said Friday

Level,
I don't know about you but if I was a member of that church's congregation and this happened, I would not return.  This is the kind of nonsense that makes people's already negative opinions of Christians even worse.  Very sad.  Very wrong.......................luci

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(in reply to Level)
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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/11/2007 7:35:20 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Good evening, luci. I agree, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth; now, they have the right to believe however they wish, but we do too, and I believe to my core that they're wrong.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/11/2007 7:47:21 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I can't believe my eyes that something like this could occur in such an enlightened place such as Arlington, Texas.

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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/11/2007 7:55:13 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, not all my fellow Texans are as enlightened as we'd like them to be, dg. But then, the dim light of a closed mind can be found anywhere.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to domiguy)
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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/11/2007 7:59:58 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		This, from your neck of the woods:

quote:

A national assembly of Evangelical Lutherans urged its bishops Saturday to refrain from defrocking gay and lesbian ministers who violate a celibacy rule, but rejected measures that would have permitted ordaining gays churchwide.


A little bit of open-mindedness, a little bit of ..... not. But progress, nonetheless.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/11/2007 8:10:46 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		the seperation of church and state gives a church rights to do as they want no matter what we think. after all rights work both ways. for example if your someone that i know is doing drugs then i do not want to be around you or your friend because your being stupid that is my right. rights just do not go one way

< Message edited by LATEXBABY64 -- 8/11/2007 8:24:22 PM >

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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/11/2007 8:12:11 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Your posts intrigue me.

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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/11/2007 8:26:28 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Cindy Sheehan doesn't stand a chance of defeating Pelosi. She doesn't have the funding, or the common sense, IMO. And some will complain about her lack of a political track record. I think she is kidding herself if she thinks she will win.

It amazes me that people survive on less than 20 rupees a day. Makes it darn hard to complain about my credit card bill! I feel badly for these folks - especially since they are surrounded by much wealthier people in their own country.

I understood what Giuliani meant when he said what he did - it  never confused me; I chalk up any confusion to the Presidential race and his opponents hoping to confuse the puiblic about his intent when he said that.

I think the gay Navy guy not getting a church funeral, just because he's gay sucks raw eggs!

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 8/11/2007 8:29:24 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/12/2007 8:29:31 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

I don't know about you but if I was a member of that church's congregation and this happened, I would not return.  This is the kind of nonsense that makes people's already negative opinions of Christians even worse.  Very sad.  Very wrong.......................luci



I took my kids to a church and spent quite a bit of time talking to the pastor, a visiting guy while they looked for a new full-time one.

The man was brilliant.  PhD, DD, who was both minister and counselor to runaways.  Open.  Intelligent, Articulate.  Kind.  Giving.  It was a church I thought I could be a part of.

So the congregation found a new pastor and hired him.  His first sermon was about how homosexuality is a sin and wanted everybody to support the defense of marraige act.

I never went back.  I refuse to involve myself with any group that espouses bigotry.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to slaveluci)
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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/12/2007 8:35:45 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Sinergy, I wonder where the temp pastor went? Anyway, sorry that happened, the fear of it is one reason I don't attend a church. One more place I don't seem to fit in lol. Ever check out the Unitarians? Very open and welcoming group.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/12/2007 8:36:06 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		well a cording to the bible it is a sin lol the bible is pretty black n white on things.. and marriage is between a man and a woman biblically speaking

http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html

< Message edited by LATEXBABY64 -- 8/12/2007 8:37:58 AM >

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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/12/2007 8:47:07 AM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Sinergy, I wonder where the temp pastor went? Anyway, sorry that happened, the fear of it is one reason I don't attend a church. One more place I don't seem to fit in lol. Ever check out the Unitarians? Very open and welcoming group.


I have.

I have been to many churches, Level, and many different faiths.

Generally, my experiences have tended to fall on the side espoused by the latter pastor, which is what I found so enamoring about the former.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/12/2007 8:49:32 AM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

well a cording to the bible it is a sin lol the bible is pretty black n white on things.. and marriage is between a man and a woman biblically speaking

http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html


Iirc, that particular aspect of Christianity relates back to the Book of Paul or one of his letters. 

A misogynistic, uptight, control freak telling people who they should or should not have sex with.

I wouldnt like him either.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

p.s. I have not problem with it if it works for you, however.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/12/2007 8:54:49 AM   
EvilCrimeLord


Posts: 184
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: FakeVolcano
Status: offline 		I’m not a theologian but I have heard it stated many times that homosexuality is a sin as defined by a religious text people use to guide their belief systems. So that being said, how can you pretend those things aren’t in the texts in the first place? How can you contradict the book you are using to justify every other action you make in life? The same thing is occurring in the UK with laws being passed to stop Catholic Schools from rejecting kids from other faith backgrounds. Although this is not the same it is a related issue asking how the state governs religious groups if they think they know better than the government.

In my opinion no homosexual should want to be part of a religion that says they are wrong and excludes them. It’s just hard to reject the argument that this is what the book says so this is how we act. You can be as progressive on this issue as you want but you are still dealing with a limited text conceived two thousand plus years ago. A common approach that churches seems to adopt to get over this issue is by saying “many people sin but we are here to guide them and shouldn’t exclude people” I find that approach patronising. I’m not religious and this is a good indication of why.

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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/12/2007 9:17:17 AM   
FYIinFL


Posts: 37
Joined: 7/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Church cancels memorial for gay Navy vet
By ANGELA K. BROWN, Associated Press Writer 7 minutes ago

A megachurch canceled a memorial service for a Navy veteran 24 hours before it was to start because the deceased was gay.

Officials at the nondenominational High Point Church knew that Cecil Howard Sinclair was gay when they offered to host his service, said his sister, Kathleen Wright. But after his obituary listed his life partner as one of his survivors, she said, it was called off.

"It's a slap in the face. It's like, 'Oh, we're sorry he died, but he's gay so we can't help you,'" she said Friday.

Wright said High Point offered to hold the service for Sinclair because their brother is a janitor there. Sinclair, who served in the first Gulf War, died Monday at age 46 from an infection after surgery to prepare him for a heart transplant.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070811/ap_on_re_us/gay_funeral;_ylt=AvbCXK_HLbqBTnI5MUJgh.Ws0NUE


That is so wrong!  The church should be ashamed of themselves, but I doubt that they are.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

I don't know about you but if I was a member of that church's congregation and this happened, I would not return.  This is the kind of nonsense that makes people's already negative opinions of Christians even worse.  Very sad.  Very wrong.......................luci



I took my kids to a church and spent quite a bit of time talking to the pastor, a visiting guy while they looked for a new full-time one.

The man was brilliant.  PhD, DD, who was both minister and counselor to runaways.  Open.  Intelligent, Articulate.  Kind.  Giving.  It was a church I thought I could be a part of.

So the congregation found a new pastor and hired him.  His first sermon was about how homosexuality is a sin and wanted everybody to support the defense of marraige act.

I never went back.  I refuse to involve myself with any group that espouses bigotry.

Sinergy


I don't blame you at all, how sad that they hired such an incompetent bigot.
I also wonder where the other guy went.

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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/12/2007 9:24:42 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilCrimeLord

I’m not a theologian but I have heard it stated many times that homosexuality is a sin as defined by a religious text people use to guide their belief systems. So that being said, how can you pretend those things aren’t in the texts in the first place? How can you contradict the book you are using to justify every other action you make in life? The same thing is occurring in the UK with laws being passed to stop Catholic Schools from rejecting kids from other faith backgrounds. Although this is not the same it is a related issue asking how the state governs religious groups if they think they know better than the government.

In my opinion no homosexual should want to be part of a religion that says they are wrong and excludes them. It’s just hard to reject the argument that this is what the book says so this is how we act. You can be as progressive on this issue as you want but you are still dealing with a limited text conceived two thousand plus years ago. A common approach that churches seems to adopt to get over this issue is by saying “many people sin but we are here to guide them and shouldn’t exclude people” I find that approach patronising. I’m not religious and this is a good indication of why.


ECL, I don't know that it's so much a matter of pretending those things aren't in the text (as they are), but I wonder how much of the Bible did we humans "get right"? I see God as the most perfect form of love in the universe, and wherever you see love, or kindness, or courage, or honesty, you're literally witnessing God, or God at work. Believing this, makes me look at some passages in the Bible, and wonder about the men that put the words down on paper (or whatever they wrote on ).
 
I may be 100% wrong, and pay some price some day for what I say, but all I know is, I don't say it out of anger, or hate, or fear, but in an effort to live in accordance with the God I know.

< Message edited by Level -- 8/12/2007 9:25:34 AM >

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to EvilCrimeLord)
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RE: And now.... the news. - 8/12/2007 9:42:48 AM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

well a cording to the bible it is a sin lol the bible is pretty black n white on things.. and marriage is between a man and a woman biblically speaking

http://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html

the Hebrew Bible allowed for multiple wives and concubines.

thornhappy

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: And now.... the news. - 8/12/2007 10:05:51 AM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline 		Ya know, Level. I read that first story, as I was "doing my morning routine" in front of the computer monitor. I was going to post it. I copied all the text and I had the links, etc. but, I realized that I was exceedingly angry and I needed to wait until I added my thoughts.
 
I am, relatively, composed, now and you folks may still be in for a helluva ride.
 
As many of you may know; I identify myself as a Christian. There are many "Christian" sects that would not accept me because of the beliefs that I do hold but, I have always felt like someone who tries to follow the words in red (in most bibles). Because of my other, (supposedly) non-Christian beliefs ( I hold a good deal of Gnosticism dear, also), I have been "given the cold shoulder" in a few places.
 
Also, for those of you who don't know; I served my country, honorably for 11 years. I spilled my blood for my country and, under certain conditions, I would do it, again.
 
When my step-dad (a Korean War vet) died in FEB '97, the U.S. Military refused to give him any military honors, at his funeral. This was one of the things he was promised, before he enlisted. We were told by the V.A.: "We just don't do that, anymore." I was livid!
 
So, as you can well imagine, this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart for a lot of reasons. I do like what ECL said about consistency. If you're going to claim that book is "the end all/be all" then, you have to go by that. Agreed. However ...
 
I have always believed that the Almighty imprints their name on our heart before we're born. I believe that we are all born knowing who and what "God" is; that we are all born with a conscience (most of us) and that, if something doesn't offend our conscience, it probably doesn't offend "God". (These are my beliefs. I'm not looking to start an argument.)
 
I also believe that while homosexuality isn't as prevailant as some of the activists might have us believe that it is "natural" in that, it occurs, just as what scientists would call a "natural deviation" in almost every species about which we are aware. So, in that light, homosexuality is natural.
 
What is un-natural is a human being volunteering for the horrors of war so that a good number of their neighbors don't have to interrupt their mundane lives.
 
The church/pastor in question is so wrong beyond my ability to lay out the case that it saddens me to call myself "Christian".
 
I am getting upset again so, I shall close but, I want to add a little excerpt, if I may ...
 
"We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal; that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain inalienable rights; that amongst these rights are LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PERSUIT of HAPPINESS."
 
This person did what made them happy. They did what they were endowed by their Creator to do. How dare ANYBODY try to besmirch that! Damn them!
 
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
 
Michael

_____________________________

Peace and comfort,


Michael

Former Vice-President Gore didn't invent the internet but, he DID make up global warming!

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: And now.... the news. - 8/12/2007 10:26:26 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for your response, Michael. I have some books here on Gnosticism, haven't read them yet, but I have a hunch I'm going to find some points of agreement in them, once I do. Also, I find a lot of agreement with your statement on conscience. Isn't that one of the many ways God speaks to us?
 
Lastly, we also agree on the "naturalness" of homosexuality. The same God that made every heterosexual, made them, as well. For Christians, or anyone, to look down their nose at them, much less hate them, for what they cannot help being, is wrong.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Satyr6406)
Profile   Post #: 20
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