RE: Using "Insecurities"

RE: Using "Insecurities" (Full Version)

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SirDominic -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/12/2007 8:29:31 AM)
heartfelt, the real issue is the intention of the Dominant. There are Dominants who want to exercise their control by building their slave up, there are ones who wish to exercise their control by tearing their slave down. And I suppose there are Dominants who are completely oblivious to their slave's issues, and have no interest in hearing about them. Using a slave's insecurities to control them is cruel, and such a person is not a dominant, merely a manipulator (except for the very tiny percentage of people Grlwithboy was talking about). Almost all of us have insecurities of some kind. Subs and slaves often have more than their fair share of them. This is where the issue of trust comes in; that a slave knows that her Master will never use her insecurities against her. Sometimes just having someone in their lives for the first time that they find they can really trust goes a long way towards lessening long held insecurities. I would disagree with Smythe that an insecure slave would try harder to please her Master as being a good thing. The most fundamental thing a Master can do for an insecure sub is to let them know they are accepted as they are, as a whole person with all their strengths and weaknesses. That doesn't mean they won't learn to become even better than they are now, just that they are fine and complete right now. When you can give a sub that sense of acceptance, right now with me, you feel loved, cherished, wanted. Namaste, Sir Dominic

Grlwithboy -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/12/2007 8:53:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel But what about the opposite side of the coin? What about the one that uses their insecurities as a weapon of manipulation? The "I told you this was a major issue for me now look what you've done!!??" person? Just playing the devil's advocate here, but I've known those types. They can take the smallest issue and eventually hide Mt Rushmore in it. After that they pull it out every time something doesn't go their way and use it as a trump card. *I'm sorry, but insecurities are too easy to let go of if you really want to.* *Jewel* Good point. And I think this scenario is WAY more common than we choose to recognize or address, and more common than the idea of the Top who damages the goods willy nilly because it's not addressed nearly as often. Side question, no dis on the thread intended: How do people think this kind of personality can be spotted in advance, how do you know you are dealing with someone who may blow up in your face?

came4U -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/12/2007 9:48:37 AM)
That grl would be a sixth sense in itself or if one isn't quite sure, always guard the deepest of deep. I think?? I have the ability to judge such, since so far in my life the ones I told deep secrets haven't thrown it in my face and the ones I haven't haven't had the opportunity. So, good judgement? or fluke? not sure, but so far, so good.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/12/2007 5:11:55 PM)
i wish i had an answer for that one, Grl, as i have seen way too many of my Dominant friends end up with let's just say a less than emotionally healthy submissive. As i said in response to Jewel i don't think insecurities should be used by either side and unfortunately i know people on both sides of the kneel who do so. Also Sir Dominic, it does make sense what the intention is, as Grl described it, it is not her intent to harm. Thank you all for your replies. heartfelt

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 12:07:44 AM)
I agree with you. Any scenario that deliberately keeps them from developing a healthy emotional state is an abusive one, to me. Master Fire

MaamJay -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 12:25:44 AM)
I agree. There is a vast difference between using someone's insecurities to keep them down or disempowered ... and creating a safe and trusting environment in which they are challenged to confront their insecurities to encourage them to deal with them (themselves or with professional help as needed). The latter situation I would see as positive, cathartic, empowering ... as Grl seems to be accomplishing with Her boy. It's not always obvious what a sub will find confronting ... for My new sub, My wanting her to wear skirts has led her to confront a deep fear of looking feminine again ... which has roots in circumstances I won't share. she wasn't consciously aware of this so neither of U/us thought it would be an issue when it was first negotiated ... but I am happy that W/we already have a level of trust and safety between U/us to deal with this positively. It would be wrong of Me now to play on that insecurity or the circumstances that created it to tear her down ... instead I want to build her up and affirm her. Good thread! Maam Jay aka violet[A]

heartfeltsub -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 1:27:01 AM)
Welcome back MFM, good to see that you arrived all right. heartfelt

satyrsnymph28 -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 1:28:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ re: "being forced" in my opinion, if there is no possibility for "no", then "yes" has no real meaning. oh goodness... i dont know if i have ever agreed with any statement so whole heartedly...

heartfeltsub -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 1:29:05 AM)
Thank you MaamJay for your reply, it is strange how something that a lot would consider a minor thing, (wearing skirts) can touch off an insecurity, but obviously many things can be a trigger. heartfelt

ProlificNeeds -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 6:31:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub ...if a certain action can be seen to have its roots in insecurity would it not be less pleasing than if it stemmed from a desire to please the other that is not based on insecurity. By my thoughts, an action out of love instead of out of fear, would be infinitely more satisfying for both halves, in a relationship context. From a sadists point of view however, with someone they do not specifically care about, I could see fear of failure being an appealing motivator to hold over someone. If it's used to hurt someone intentionally, I don't think it would be remotely acceptable, period. The key would be to determine where it crossed from play, to truely psychologically altering for the person in question.

daddysprop247 -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 8:41:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub Smythe, First, thank you for responding. Secondly, i have re-read your post about 4 or 5 times and i still have a hmmm about the following couples of sentences. quote: A more insecure partner may work hard to gain approval or please their partner. This is natural in some relationships and there is nothing wrong with enjoying the dynamic it creates. i can see why it would be natural, but what i'm hmmmming about is, if a certain action can be seen to have its roots in insecurity would it not be less pleasing than if it stemmed from a desire to please the other that is not based on insecurity. i'm not sure i am explaining myself well and i tend to look at things from an s-type perspective and not a D-type perspective, so that may be part of my confusion. If i knew or could tell that someone is doing something for me and the motivation behind them doing so was to gain my approval because their insecurities constantly made them feel like they didn't have it, that would bother me. Again i looking at this from an s-type perspective, but hopefully that example made my previous statement make more sense. Thank you again for your reply Smythe, heartfelt a submissive person who happens to be very insecure, may always feel a need and desire to please due to their submisisve nature, and may also feel a desperation of sorts to please due to their insecurities...the two need not be mutually exclusive. in our union, my Master does use some of my insecurities, anxieties and various other personal issues at times for his own benefit, or for the benefit of the M/s dynamic. vulnerability appeals to him, and for him it's also a necessary state for any slave he would own. He can (and does) manipulate a slave's life in ways that will create vulnerability, but it is even better for him if there is some natural vulnerability there, due to unrepressed submissive nature, or depression, or anxiety, or whatever else. this all makes for increased dependence on him, which he likes very much. i recall very clearly the time less than a year into our union, when he took me to a shopping mall with the intention of getting me a new wardrobe. well anyone who knows me knows i HATE malls, hate all the people, crowds, noise, activity, etc., because of social anxiety issues. but because i was near him, it made it bearable. until all of a sudden he stops in this little seating area near a fountain and tells me to sit there and wait for him, while he did some shopping by himself. He knew full well that such a thing would terrify me and likely cause a panic attack...well he walked away, i stared after him until he turned a corner and i couldn't see him anymore, then i put my head down and very silently hummed to myself to try to keep it together. i felt like screaming, running...just wanted to disappear. i was thinking to myself why was he being so mean, he must not care, etc. it took everything in me not to cry...i definitely could not cry, because then people would notice, and look at me, my great fear. then out of nowhere he appears...He's walking towards me. and at that moment all of the bad things i was thinking about him just fizzled away, and he was a knight coming to rescue me. i was so filled with relief and joy at seeing him, at knowing i wasn't alone anymore. He came to me, took my hand, said "good girl," and we left. later, he said he just wanted to remind me of just how much i need him, and of how helpless i am without him. it certainly served the purpose.

tricia -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 9:59:34 AM)
Although i suffer from my own anxiety - i don't think it is severe as yours. I love the mall :) I wanted to ask - didn't it also show you that you could survive that short time without him. The world wasn't going to swallow you up while he was off shopping. And that in all reality, few people, if any, paid any attention at all to you sitting on the bench alone.

mmb1 -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 10:11:31 AM)
You are very fortunate BoundDragon :)

daddysprop247 -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 10:14:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tricia Although i suffer from my own anxiety - i don't think it is severe as yours. I love the mall :) I wanted to ask - didn't it also show you that you could survive that short time without him. The world wasn't going to swallow you up while he was off shopping. And that in all reality, few people, if any, paid any attention at all to you sitting on the bench alone. oh, logically i already know these things...i won't literally die if left alone for a few minutes, and most people are so self-absorbed that they are not going to notice some nervous frightened chick sitting on the floor beside a fountain. but my fear and anxiety prevent me from functioning in that state...i could never be one of those jillions of people, who are independent, get up and get themselves to work, go home, go shopping, call the plumber, complain to the bank, etc., just normal day-to-day stuff that most seem to do without a thought. that world is just a scary, incomprehensible place to me. and my Master knew that, he knew that i would suffer just from being left alone for what...20 minutes?...and that i would feel naked, abandoned, irrelevant...much longer and i would be completely in despair and longing for death. ...and really that was the point of the exercise, to show and remind me that i cannot thrive or function normally without him, even if my heart will continue to beat. as an aside...you love the mall?! what kinda freak are you??? [:D]

Grlwithboy -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 11:59:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 a submissive person who happens to be very insecure, may always feel a need and desire to please due to their submisisve nature, and may also feel a desperation of sorts to please due to their insecurities...the two need not be mutually exclusive. in our union, my Master does use some of my insecurities, anxieties and various other personal issues at times for his own benefit, or for the benefit of the M/s dynamic. vulnerability appeals to him, and for him it's also a necessary state for any slave he would own. He can (and does) manipulate a slave's life in ways that will create vulnerability, but it is even better for him if there is some natural vulnerability there, due to unrepressed submissive nature, or depression, or anxiety, or whatever else. this all makes for increased dependence on him, which he likes very much. i recall very clearly the time less than a year into our union, when he took me to a shopping mall with the intention of getting me a new wardrobe. well anyone who knows me knows i HATE malls, hate all the people, crowds, noise, activity, etc., because of social anxiety issues. but because i was near him, it made it bearable. until all of a sudden he stops in this little seating area near a fountain and tells me to sit there and wait for him, while he did some shopping by himself. He knew full well that such a thing would terrify me and likely cause a panic attack...well he walked away, i stared after him until he turned a corner and i couldn't see him anymore, then i put my head down and very silently hummed to myself to try to keep it together. i felt like screaming, running...just wanted to disappear. i was thinking to myself why was he being so mean, he must not care, etc. it took everything in me not to cry...i definitely could not cry, because then people would notice, and look at me, my great fear. then out of nowhere he appears...He's walking towards me. and at that moment all of the bad things i was thinking about him just fizzled away, and he was a knight coming to rescue me. i was so filled with relief and joy at seeing him, at knowing i wasn't alone anymore. He came to me, took my hand, said "good girl," and we left. later, he said he just wanted to remind me of just how much i need him, and of how helpless i am without him. it certainly served the purpose. While he may not be encouraging you to fly free, that's not the only option out there, and there's something really sweet about this. He very much is taking you at face value, who you are and where you are at, and valuing that. It's definitely not the same as someone who wouldn't even care that that was a hard excercise for you.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 12:01:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds From a sadists point of view however, with someone they do not specifically care about, I could see fear of failure being an appealing motivator to hold over someone. *snipped for brevity That is an interesting theory, as i have in the past asked Sadists that i know if they would rather play with someone who loves pain or someone who submits to it, but doesn't love it. Having gotten a mixed response to my question makes your point about a fear-based action being something that might be a turn-on to a Sadist make sense to me. Thank you for your reply. heartfelt

heartfeltsub -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 12:06:22 PM)
Prop, thank you for your reply and for the example that you mentioned. i can see where the two causes of actions could be completely indivisable from each other. And though malls don't make me panic, i agree with you, any one who loves the mall is some kind of freak. (jk in case the smiley doesn't show up again) i can't get the smiley faces to work heartfelt

daddysprop247 -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 12:08:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Grlwithboy While he may not be encouraging you to fly free, that's not the only option out there, and there's something really sweet about this. He very much is taking you at face value, who you are and where you are at, and valuing that. It's definitely not the same as someone who wouldn't even care that that was a hard excercise for you. absolutely. after 19 years of self-loathing and never being accepted, understood or desired for who i was, it was wonderful beyond expression to find someone who didn't see me as something broken that needed to be badly fixed, but instead as someone valuable who needed him and whose insecurities and handicaps could be used to strengthen the M/s bond and enhance his power.

heartfeltsub -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 12:11:37 PM)
If it is possible to hijack one's own thread can some one please explain, how to make the smileys work, as i don't seem to be able to get them to show up. Thanks.

Jeffff -> RE: Using "Insecurities" (8/13/2007 12:15:50 PM)
Like many things, this will be different for everyone. It would all depend on your , "limits"....His/Her desires. Personely, I hope to elivate a submissive.through her submission....but as I said, thats just Me Jeff yeah ...I spell badly, but I make up for it by typing poorly too..:)

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