RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional development?

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 3:31:48 PM

SophiaBelle

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I've been doing research lately on human developement (emotionally) and their abilities to communicate based on their childhood.

I feel this is of relevance to this topic. Persons are supposed (theoretically) to develope their emotional and communicative responses while they are still with their parents. They are in a complex emotional relationship where they need to learn and grow- the positive being that [ideally] they can screw up a lot because your parent is [supposed to] always love you. It is supposed to be a safe environment to learn how we should emotionally act for the rest of our lives.

For those of us (like myself) who never had a proper childhood for various reasons, I was not taught by conditioning, modelling... or anything how to act properly in relationships of any sort (friendship, intimate, other) and I have been qualified at having an emotional understanding of a much younger person.

I believe this plays into part (but not even remotely all) of why I feel so comfortable and content in a D/s situation/relationship. I think it sort of emmulates a parent/child relationship that allows me to grow under the conditions I missed the first time around.

I am by no means any sort of authority, and I welcome any sort of opposition, as I just barely know what I am talking about. I do however believe that the aforementioned person (and some submissives as well as people not even remotely in the BDSM life/scene) may be sort of stuck at an emotional developemental level much lower than we should be- and this probably effects how they play.

Anyway, sorry, that was kind of rambling, but that's my thoughts.

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 4:18:13 PM

Domin81

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Hmmmm back to when Alt.com was just starting and newsgroups were still popular for posting/meeting, I seem to remember a profile that was too much like the one quoted. The profile may not be for real?

I believe that consent must be from understanding adults and if a person's mental ability (in all aspects) is not up to that standard then consent is not available. No different than playing with say a 12 year old child?

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 5:57:10 PM

pleasureforHim

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quote:

Regardless, I still think the statment is...not nice.

The word you want is "cruel", i think.

pleasureforHim

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 6:11:11 PM

siamsa24

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quote:

I believe that consent must be from understanding adults and if a person's mental ability (in all aspects) is not up to that standard then consent is not available. No different than playing with say a 12 year old child?

I hope that you are not implying that an individual with the emotional age of a very young person is not capable of functioning and making choices as an adult as well.

I may be very young emotionally, but I still have a full-time job, a part-time job and attend school full-time. I also cook, clean and otherwise maintain the home. It is difficult at times, I would much rather stay at home and do things around the house instead of going out among people, but I do what I must.

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/4/2005 9:09:39 PM

domtimothy46176

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I think the level of misunderstanding and/or lack of comprehension directly relates to a lack of experience in dealing with such a situation. Those who exist at an emotionally retarded level while functioning as adults, as well as those who maintain close relationships with same, grok the practical, day-to-day ramifications. Those without that perspective are more likely to associate "emotionally stunted" with "developmentally retarded" which, as you know from first-hand experience, is a whole other thing.

For what it's worth, I don't think stunted emotional development is only congruent with submissive characteristics. I think it also correlates directly with certain dominant behavior traits, i.e. obsessive-compulsive tendencies, strong bias in favor of structured environments, etc.

Interesting discussion.

Timothy

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/5/2005 10:48:39 AM

zaynab

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after reading all the messages on here.... i can see im not familiar with this "emotional range" thing....

guess i have something to read up about on the internet, as it sounds very interesting to me..... ~ z

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/5/2005 11:58:01 AM

strikingamatch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

"Also like all profound submissives, X' emotional development was never completed and will never be. I would gauge her emotional range at from around 4 at bottom to 8 or 9 at top. Her intellectual and psychological development are, however, fully adult."

3. Do you think there's any truth in this statement? Why?

I think that the statement is wrong. I am friendly with profound submissives who are emotionally mature. I would go even further and say, that a profound submissive is one who is emotionally mature and can explore her submission deeply and positively. I don't know that an emotionally immature person is capable of profound anything.

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/5/2005 6:43:25 PM

subsapphire

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The statement that someone's emotional development is stunted is cruel, particularly in a setting such as this. Assuming the profile does exist, it would be interesting to know what credentials the person holds (other than having been the person's Dom at one point in time) that allow them to make such a statement. Any who have the training and position to make such judgments would (should) be bound by confidentiality and privacy laws that protect that type of information.

I believe that a person's level of emotional development is largely based on the experiences they have had where they can try out new responses, learn what works and then practice those behaviors. The speed with which someone picks up new skills is moderated by their innate abilities (or lack thereof) in the area being developed. Emotional growth occurs in same manner as any learning takes place. It comes down to the basic combination of nature and nurture. (I will leave the debate over the percentage each brings to the equation to others.)

I do not believe level of development is related to the depth of submission offered. To me, that would seem to be saying that one could not be a "good sub" unless they were immature emotionally. I have a feeling that not many here would buy into that.

It's possible there an ulterior motive for including such information in a profile that was written as a "testimonial" for another. With friends like that ...

Just my 2 cents,
sapphire

edited to correct a misspelling
edited to add the third paragraph, "I do not believe level of development ..."

< Message edited by subsapphire -- 7/5/2005 7:42:15 PM >

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/5/2005 6:47:24 PM

perverseangelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subsapphire
Assuming the profile does exist,

It does exist. I have no knowledge of the validity of anything said in it, but it is a profile on this site.

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/5/2005 7:00:50 PM

sub4hire

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quote:

I don't understand this statement, so I have a couple questions.
1. Regardless of your personal opinions as to the correctness/incorrectness of this statement, what does it mean that "emotional development was never completeled"

2. In the same mindset, why would it be a trait of submissive people to lack that development?

3. What does it mean to have an emotional range of age 4 to age 8?

4. CAN one be intellectually and psychologically adult if they are emotionally a child?

3. Do you think there's any truth in this statement? Why?

I haven't read all of the response so forgive me if I'm echoing someone else.

We all have an emotional IQ. An intellectual IQ.
They do not always match...we are not always well rounded people. When they say emotional development was never completed to me it says they are a child in their heart. They behave like a child. Cannot grasp, common sense and many other things as adults we must posess.
For instance, I know a man with a 202 IQ. Know how high 202 is? Anyway he retired a multi millionairre at 28. He went to Vancouver to visit some friends about ten year's ago.
Common people. Working class citizens. He stays at their house. Wants to take them out to dinner. To say thank you for their hospitality.

He makes reservations at some restaurant where it is 1500 a meal. The wife gets a little annoyed. He calls me up and asks why. He had no clue until I explained it to him. It was probably a full weeks salary and in some cases a full month's. He threw it away on dinner.

Would an adult behave in such a fashion and not understand why? Although he is very much an adult. A fully functioning one..it is just sort of like some development was not there.

I don't think submissives are of that mindset as a norm. Although some could be. The statement in itself is very disheartening that someone wrote it about this person and they posted it. It is leaving them open for predators whether they realize it or not.
The person who wrote it does not care for the individual in my opinion.

Intellectually I feel they can be an adult but psychologically they cannot. Which would mean...they would blow their paycheck or not be able to hang onto a job?
Not pay their bills, all traits of a child..with no common sense. No discipline.

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/5/2005 8:32:03 PM

Domin81

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My point was with BDSM and in that regard, yes that is what I meant. My opinion was fairly clear. I'm sorry if it upsets you, but I would have difficulty being involved in play with someone who I believed was not mature on all levels. Informed consent is the line between play and abuse IMHO.

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/5/2005 8:49:46 PM

siamsa24

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I'm not upset, it is very clear when I get upset

We just don't see things the same and there is nothing wrong with that. Agree to disagree I suppose

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RE: Profound submission requires unfinished emotional d... - 7/5/2005 10:02:17 PM

testlimit

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I think this is a perception issue. What you choose to believe is behind certain behavioural patterns. While obviously it's an incorrect statement in that it is a sweeping "absolute" ("like all true submissives"...the only thing all true submissives have in common is that they are all truly submissive, by whatever standards they choose to use to determine their subness), submission could be interpreted as an emotional dependance on another similar to that of a child to his/her parents.

While I don't personally ascribe to this viewpoint as a sweeping "Truth," it can be applied to several types of submissives. In a somewhat general way submissive behaviour does resemble something like a longing to return to a childhood state. A time when others made choices for you, told you how to dress, determined what you ate, when you slept, disciplined you when you broke rules, rewarded you when you were well behaved, etc etc. Looked at in that manner, yes, you could come to the interpetation that submissives are emotionally still children, with some sexual overtones thrown in as a result of hormonal changes. A little creepy but with something like an internal Fruedian logic...if you can call it logic (never was too good with that A leads to B = C stuff).

While I'm sure, subliminally, this is going on in many submissives' heads, I don't think it's exclusive to submissives. Personally, I get wierd looks because my sense of humor and personality sometimes tends toward the elementry. I take pride in the fact that I am still able to garner some child like amusement out of some things, like candy and watching clouds or fanciful patterns in shadows. I don't know, maybe I'm too open and polite.....Maybe I should try grim and demanding or detatched and mysterious, although how you pull of detatchedand mysterious on an online personals site where you have to do the contacting is a little beyond me....grim and demanding I could swing, though..........

<Goes off to pratice his "serious Dom scowl">

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