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Hypnosis - 8/13/2007 10:36:08 AM   
e01n


Posts: 1472
Status: offline 		So, here's my thing...

I've been known to do hypnosis and mentalism as "stage" entertainment. I'm almost what could be called pretty darn good at it - even used it to help a number of friends and co-workers with breaking bad habits. But I do it mostly for kicks and gentle humiliation.

Never used it in the bedroom or dungeon, though.

So I'm curious about how that might work in WIITWD for others as opposed to what it is that I do...

Do you approach it as a variety of medical play? Willing non-consent?
Does the sub actually "go under" for you, or is it roleplayed out?
Do you incorporate humiliation into it?

Looking for a general cross section of how it might work - even to the negative.
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RE: Hypnosis - 8/13/2007 10:40:53 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: e01n
Do you approach it as a variety of medical play?

No.
quote:

 Willing non-consent?

Sometimes
quote:


Does the sub actually "go under" for you, or is it roleplayed out?

What's the point if it's not actually hypnosis?
quote:


Do you incorporate humiliation into it?

Sometimes.

It's a combo of the healthy good change and focus mixed with the hot mind control illusion fun for me- as both a top and bottom.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1056967/mpage_1/key_hypnosis/tm.htm#1057433
Role of hypnosis in bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_363507/mpage_1/key_hypnosis/tm.htm#363689
hypnosis in bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_354975/mpage_1/key_hypnosis/tm.htm#354975
Hypnosis in training a submissive 5/4/06

http://www.collarchat.com/m_333911/mpage_1/key_hypnosis/tm.htm#333911
Subbie Hypnosis 4/18/06

http://www.collarchat.com/m_331927/mpage_1/key_hypnosis/tm.htm#331927
Hypnosis 4/16/06

http://www.collarchat.com/m_146203/mpage_1/key_hypnosis/tm.htm
Hypnosis

http://www.collarchat.com/m_131933/mpage_1/key_hypnosis/tm.htm#131955
Brainwashing

http://www.collarchat.com/m_117011/mpage_1/key_hypnosis/tm.htm#118539
Hypnosis (2)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_245428/mpage_1/key_hypnosis/tm.htm#245460
Hypnosis (3)




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RE: Hypnosis - 8/13/2007 10:51:46 AM   
e01n


Posts: 1472
Status: offline 		ah! Dialogue!
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
quote:

Does the sub actually "go under" for you, or is it roleplayed out?
What's the point if it's not actually hypnosis?


So, groovy... I have an appreciation of that, rather than r/p of it. Just not quite the same... But then there's this statement

quote:

It's a combo of the healthy good change and focus mixed with the hot mind control illusion {emphasis added} fun for me- as both a top and bottom.


And thank you for the links.

So, here's my question: if it's illusory control, isn't it just roleplay? Granted, there's nothing you'd do under hypnosis that you wouldn't do if there wasn't the original impulse to do - even if normally stifled by the internal censor... But still, that's a great deal of control over a person and hardly something that could be described as an illusion.

NB: this isn't attack or interrogation, just exploration in pursuit of improvement...

< Message edited by e01n -- 8/13/2007 10:52:52 AM >

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RE: Hypnosis - 8/13/2007 11:07:57 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		The control isn't illusory, the scenarios created are.  And sure, that could be a type of role play.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 8/13/2007 11:08:13 AM >

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RE: Hypnosis - 8/13/2007 7:03:08 PM   
teamnoir


Posts: 226
Joined: 4/5/2005
From: San Francisco Bay Area California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: e01n
Do you approach it as a variety of medical play?


No. But I will mix play with what is essentially real spirituality - that is, with attempts to help people change their lives.

quote:

Willing non-consent?


I've been reluctant to use amnesia for any effect, but yes, setting up a consensual nonconsent scene is in my list of fantasies.

quote:

Does the sub actually "go under" for you, or is it roleplayed out?


Never role played. But I'm primarily trained in NLP so the trance states aren't "under" either. They're mostly waking states.

I do use "under" states, but I don't generally play "in" them. More often, I use them to set up context or effects that are used later.

quote:

Do you incorporate humiliation into it?


I haven't yet.

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RE: Hypnosis - 8/13/2007 7:06:46 PM   
teamnoir


Posts: 226
Joined: 4/5/2005
From: San Francisco Bay Area California
Status: offline 		I think role play is a form of joint trance induction.

When people ask me for tips about how to start playing with hypnosis, I tell them to role play it.

Essentially, what's the difference? If you get someone to do something, does it matter whether they rationalize it as having been done under a role play? Either way, they did the thing, right?

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RE: Hypnosis - 8/13/2007 7:11:53 PM   
teamnoir


Posts: 226
Joined: 4/5/2005
From: San Francisco Bay Area California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: e01n
So, here's my question: if it's illusory control, isn't it just roleplay?


NLP talks about increasing influence, not about rigid control. And I think that's a more useful paradigm.

I don't have rigid control. What I have is strong influence. I get that as a dom when someone grants me that authority. I get it as an NLP practitioner partly from skills, and partly because of the choices of my clients/partners.

quote:

Granted, there's nothing you'd do under hypnosis that you wouldn't do if there wasn't the original impulse to do - even if normally stifled by the internal censor...


This is an arbitrary belief to which I do not subscribe. The problem is two fold.

First, if I believe this, then it's easy to play the blame-the-victim. If someone comes up to me after we've done something and says, "you did such-and-such to me", I want to be taking responsibility for that, at least temporarily. If you believe that someone will only do things they have some impulse to do, then you can duck that responsibility and just turn it back on the person. "You did it because deep down you really wanted to". Which, as an abuse survivor, I think just sucks.

Second, I want to believe that I'm capable of installing those impulses. And if I'm capable of installing those impulses, then this belief has no real meaning.

Think of it another way, can you install consent?

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RE: Hypnosis - 8/14/2007 12:28:50 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		Does the sub know what she's doing?  Does she remember it afterwards? 

Can you raise the sub's pain tolerance so she can play harder? 

This is interesting, but a bit scary!

(in reply to teamnoir)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Hypnosis - 8/14/2007 11:36:16 AM   
temptressofsouls


Posts: 208
Joined: 3/29/2005
From: Toledo, OH
Status: offline 		Ok, time for some really generic answers, to some generic questions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Does the sub know what she's doing?
  Yes, I'd say damn near every time. If you tell a sub while she's under to touch her nose, then ask her what she's doing, she'll probably say "touching my nose."  She may say "i dont know" if she's far gone enough.
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333 Does she know she's going under?
  Most of the time, if she's experienced it before, she should recognize it, unless she's been conditioned not to, or it happens so fast she cant/doesnt want to stop it or think about whats happening. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333 Does she remember it afterwards? 
Again, usually, unless she's told not to, she doesnt want to, or doesnt need to. She may remember all of it, bits, or the going under/coming out, but not the details.

Can you raise the sub's pain tolerance so she can play harder? 

This is interesting, but a bit scary!

(in reply to becca333)
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RE: Hypnosis - 8/14/2007 5:34:43 PM   
e01n


Posts: 1472
Status: offline 		Pain tolerance: to a small degree. In general, if it hurts enough to cause serious endorphin flush, it'll hurt enough to break the state. But I've done the whole cheek skewering and fire-walking routine without it breaking the state.

NLP v. hypnosis v. altered states/trance: NLP in general strikes me best as a way of inducing a Null-A logic to a situation where someone's consciousness can be modified to an extent where old boundaries break down in a conscious way. Hypnosis is a state of semi-consciousness - the conscious inhibitions and internal censor are turned off for a time, but it still exists on a day-to-day basis. Trance, on the other hand, tends to be a self-induced mix of the two.

Then again, that's based on my experiences and the one's of friends I've spoken with about this sort of thing. We come from the same hermetic/rudraksha background, so it could just be biased that way because we're used to anally raping demons while in trance. YMMV.

That being said, incorporating hypnosis and NLP into ritual... interesting idea. Goes beyond the usual IXo fun... ;)

{oh yeah, 93 y'all}

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RE: Hypnosis - 9/6/2007 1:33:08 PM   
teamnoir


Posts: 226
Joined: 4/5/2005
From: San Francisco Bay Area California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Does the sub know what she's doing? Does she remember it afterwards?


Usually, yes.

quote:

Can you raise the sub's pain tolerance so she can play harder?


Assuming you mean physically harder, yes, I probably could. However, I don't think that would be useful in any case I can think of.

If I want to exert myself more than usual, I have softer weapons I can use to create that effect. If I want strong responses from my partner, there are better ways to do that than creating more bodily damage - I can ramp up their sensitivity, for instance, or I can simply change the sensations threshold at which they make noise or provide any other particular feedback.


quote:

This is interesting, but a bit scary!


Isn't it? :).

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RE: Hypnosis - 9/6/2007 1:41:39 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings,

He uses both deep trance hypnosis and NLP with me.  It is used for what I term "prime directives" as to how he wants me to view our relationship and specifically my role within it as well as "scenes".  Some triggers are long term and some are set for short term use and are removed immediately upon the end of the scene.  The important thing is that the triggers he uses are only for him and will not be set off simply because someone else says the word or phrase with me.

I had an unfortunate occurrance with another Dom who did not put that guard in place and thus, evertime someone counted around me I was on the verge of an orgasm.  This trigger has been removed.

Good luck with it - we thoroughly enjoy it.

well wishes ~ fairer than she


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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Hypnosis - 9/6/2007 4:20:10 PM   
tyku


Posts: 62
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

Can you raise the sub's pain tolerance so she can play harder? 

This is interesting, but a bit scary!


Hmm..  If it's good enough to use for any form of surgery I'm sure it can be used to whatever extent you're thinking of.

What exactly is it that you think is a bit scary?

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Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Hypnosis - 9/6/2007 9:57:44 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Besides using it to help my slave sleep, I also use it in play with her. When I am feeling lazy, I can hypnotize her into thinking I am doing all kinds of things to her which she will experience as really happening, while I am just sitting next to her.
I also use suggestion to further her slave feelings while under hypnosis.

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Hypnosis - 9/7/2007 1:51:19 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I am a professional hypnotherapist and therefore bound by a code of ethics NOT to use hypnosis for anything other than client stated needs.
HOWEVER that is not to say that it hasn't played a part of consensual personal relationship.
In my bdsm world I am submissive and so find myself AGAIN looking for that perfect dom who is as skilled at mental control and setting up psychological dictates as he is in the physical realm.

I could quite happpily exist within a 24/7 at any physical distance from a Dom until relocation proved possible.

I am often asked by submissives who relate to me as a switch if they could be 'hypnotised' as part of a scene. The answer is YES as anyone of us and I repete anyone of us is susceptible to hypnosis which is merely a natural state of trance which evades most of us in the druven world in which we live.

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RE: Hypnosis - 9/7/2007 12:42:59 PM   
AFlyInYourWeb


Posts: 284
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline 		I had exactly one experience being hyponotized as part of bondage play.  I know very little about hypnosis except for that one experiment.  All I'm qualified to say is that I enjoyed the experience and suffered no apparent damage to my psyche.

I do not completely remember most of it, but parts of it are very vivid.  I was seated in an ordinary striaght-back chair, facing a table with a lit candle on it.  I was told to concentrate on the flame, because She would want a detailed description of it later.  Her voice began sounding distant.  After a while, I reached a point where I could feel my mouth moving in response to Her questions, but I couldn't hear my own words.  I had started fully-clothed, but when it ended I was naked, and I cannot remember undressing or being undressed by Her.  I had dirt on the bottoms of my feet, but could not remember being outside.

Afterwards, She told me about some pretty spicy and silly things I had done.  I can't be sure if any or all of them are true.  I can remember some sensations, but not the acts that caused them.

Would I try it again?  With someone I trusted, yes. 

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