Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!!

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Owner59 -> Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/15/2007 11:15:21 PM)
You`d think purposely lying would be illegal or at least a FCC violation. Thanks to Fox News,it is now legal to knowingly lie.Plain scum. http://www.organicconsumers.org/rbgh/fox-news.cfm http://www.organicconsumers.org/rbgh/moreakrestuff.cfm http://www.headonradio.com/forum/read.php?3,79055,79058

lazarus1983 -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 1:25:09 AM)
Ummm...that's been going on for some time. Shows like Dateline and 20/20, ESPECIALLY 20/20, are notorious for it. Michael Moore is another master at it, although he toes the line by making allusions.

Owner59 -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 8:27:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lazarus1983 Ummm...that's been going on for some time. Shows like Dateline and 20/20, ESPECIALLY 20/20, are notorious for it. Michael Moore is another master at it, although he toes the line by making allusions. Big,big difference. Moore is not a news outlet,and doesn`t claim to be.He also never fired anyone for NOT lying.lol And, I still haven`t seen Moore debunked.We know that Fox News has won the right to lie,and does so on a daily bases,w/ a huge,well paid staff and writers,and a live broadcast system. Moore makes movies.And he`s just one guy.Fox has 20+ people on air,24/7,365 days a year. When I say debunked,I don`t mean challenged or countered.I mean dis-proved or shown to be false. An example of debunking. The Swiftboaters for Truth: The main spokes guy had claimed that Kerry didn`t didn`t deserve a Silver Star from a certain mission.Turns out the same guy,got a Silver Star for the very same mission,but never mentioned that.And when confronted,couldn`t respond. http://www.swiftboatingusa.com/swifties/wa-times-swiftboaters-part-2.html http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/politics/blog/2007/03/powerpoints_swiftboating_and_m.html Has Moore ever done anything like this? http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/24/gibson-obama/ After CNN debunked fox`s trash piece on Obama`s childhood school,Gibson,instead of apologizing,just trashed the CNN reporter.This wan`t news.It was a straight out smear/trash piece,specifically designed for their gullible,impressionable "fox audience".Didn`t mater that is was bull shit,b/c the trash piece had done it`s damage.The smarter folks would see it for what it was,while the "target audience" would associate Obama w/ madrases and terrorism,9/11,etc. Can you give an example of Moore doing anything like that? You can post links from anti-Moore web sites.I`ll read them,and check them out.If there was any such documented behavior,similar to fox`s shenanigans,it would be there.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 8:45:26 AM)
I am as left wing as the come and Moore is a fucking lying piece of shit. His idiotic documentary on 9/11 so muddied the water that those real issues were useless. He made up all sorts of crap, distorted others, and flat out had things wrong.

Owner59 -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 9:37:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I am as left wing as the come and Moore is a fucking lying piece of shit. His idiotic documentary on 9/11 so muddied the water that those real issues were useless. He made up all sorts of crap, distorted others, and flat out had things wrong. Some specific examples,please.... I`ve seen Fahrenheit 9/11 a few times,and still would like some answers. I also read the 9/11 Commission`s report ,and have heard the attempted debunking of Moore`s assertions.The jury is still out.

Durus -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 9:46:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 The Swiftboaters for Truth: The main spokes guy had claimed that Kerry didn`t didn`t deserve a Silver Star from a certain mission.Turns out the same guy,got a Silver Star for the very same mission,but never mentioned that.And when confronted,couldn`t respond. Actually their main point wasn't that he didn't deserve a silver star. They called into question his testimony of war crimes and atrocities in the winter soldier hearings. They called into question how he managed to get 3 purple hearts in his four months of combat, none of which required more then a bandaid. These were people that actually served with Kerry keep in mind. They went on to ask why he hadn't released his military records to shed some light on these mysteries. Kerry has stated several times that he would release his records, but to this date, he still hasn't. That indicates that he has something to hide but while some may consider that immaterial the questions they raised were not answered so it would be hard to calim that they were debunked.

CuriousLord -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 10:04:01 AM)
I'd go ahead and put Fox News on the shit list, but.. well, do you know of any other sources reporting this? (I only see OrganicConsumers and I'm not aware of their crediblity or lack thereof.) quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 When I say debunked,I don`t mean challenged or countered.I mean dis-proved or shown to be false. An example of debunking. The Swiftboaters for Truth: The main spokes guy had claimed that Kerry didn`t didn`t deserve a Silver Star from a certain mission.Turns out the same guy,got a Silver Star for the very same mission,but never mentioned that.And when confronted,couldn`t respond. Just, as a guy who doesn't give a damn about the bastards in office, and hence doesn't exactly carry a biase- this is a really weak "debunking". (Just a reality check.)

Owner59 -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 10:19:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Durus quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 The Swiftboaters for Truth: The main spokes guy had claimed that Kerry didn`t didn`t deserve a Silver Star from a certain mission.Turns out the same guy,got a Silver Star for the very same mission,but never mentioned that.And when confronted,couldn`t respond. Actually their main point wasn't that he didn't deserve a silver star. They called into question his testimony of war crimes and atrocities in the winter soldier hearings. They called into question how he managed to get 3 purple hearts in his four months of combat, none of which required more then a bandaid. These were people that actually served with Kerry keep in mind. They went on to ask why he hadn't released his military records to shed some light on these mysteries. Kerry has stated several times that he would release his records, but to this date, he still hasn't. That indicates that he has something to hide but while some may consider that immaterial the questions they raised were not answered so it would be hard to calim that they were debunked. See, the swiftboaters did there damage,and even though it was all clearly pollitical, people were still duped. Actually their main point wasn't that he didn't deserve a silver star. The main swiftboat guy also got a silver star,from the same battle.But never mentioned that. Was his medal also undeserved? Very fishy. They called into question his testimony of war crimes and atrocities in the winter soldier hearings. Which was polical and after his service. They called into question how he managed to get 3 purple hearts in his four months of combat, none of which required more then a bandaid. He didn`t make up the rules for getting one.If you took a piece of shrapnel,two three inches into your arm or leg,they`d tug it out and put a band-aid on it.B/c that`s all most puncture wounds require. Even a shrapnel wound gets you a Silver Star.It doesn`t have to be a gun shot wound or loss of a limb. These were people that actually served with Kerry keep in mind. None of his boat crew went along with is.The people who attacked him,were polital opponants. They went on to ask why he hadn't released his military records to shed some light on these mysteries. Kerry has stated several times that he would release his records, but to this date, he still hasn't. That indicates that he has something to hide but while some may consider that immaterial the questions they raised were not answered so it would be hard to calim that they were debunked. So w/ that logic,I could accuse you of giving oral services to day laborers,for their pocket change.Of course the charge is outrageous,no matter,I have a group of your political enemies,who swear they saw you on your knees,on more than one occasion. No doubt you`ll protest and get angry,and cry foul. But who are we in public supposed to believe?One alleged cocksucker,or a whole group of guys,who work with you(and hate your guts).It`s hard to know who`s telling the truth,when no one even cares. There`s two different stories here.Who`s telling the truth?I don`t know. I guess the truth, in the end,will fall somewhere in between the two stories. And you`ll always be known,to at least some people,as the low cost cocksucker. Now I`m not saying the you`re a cocksucker,Durus.I would say that you`re a dupe and a water carrier for a bunch of cocksuckers... Peace

Alumbrado -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 10:36:20 AM)
quote: this is a really weak "debunking". Debunking usually relies on something other than logical fallacies (like the above argumentem ad hominem). quote: Even a shrapnel wound gets you a Silver Star.It doesn`t have to be a gun shot wound or loss of a limb. Now this is easily debunked. http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/SILVER%20STAR1.html The Silver Star is for valor, not for a mere wound. As far as the media goes, they have been claiming special status as 'info-tainment' for some time. IIRC it was Leslie Stahl who used that defense in court a couple of decades ago, to dodge a libel charge.

CuriousLord -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 10:46:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: this is a really weak "debunking". Debunking usually relies on something other than logical fallacies (like the above argumentem ad hominem). Though he is citing the individual's supposed failure to answer a single question- after I imagine hoards of such- as a debunking valid to you? Supposing he didn't answer it, aren't there numerous reasons? Perhaps he didn't want to have to admit he didn't deserve the silver star, either? Perhaps he was just tired of what were probably malicious attacks by people who didn't like what he was saying? (I mean, com'n. Lying or not, I'm pretty much certain that those most interested in this issue questioned him with malicious intent with regards to his crediblity and such.) My point being, this "debunking" relies so heavily on assumption that I find it to be broken beyond the point of credibility. I believe it passes with those who really want it to be true. Edit: On rereading this post, it strikes me as unnecessarily aggressive. I'd ask you disregard such an apparent tone- this wasn't the intention. (Using "you" as opposed to the third person "one" causes my writing to seem a bit more personal. "you" was used in place to give it the more informal aspect, though the added consquence of making it seem like a personal attack may also been perceived. This was unintended, so my apologies if this is how it comes across to anyone else.)

Owner59 -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 10:52:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: this is a really weak "debunking". Debunking usually relies on something other than logical fallacies (like the above argumentem ad hominem). quote: Even a shrapnel wound gets you a Silver Star.It doesn`t have to be a gun shot wound or loss of a limb. Now this is easily debunked. http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Awards/SILVER%20STAR1.html The Silver Star is for valor, not for a mere wound. As far as the media goes, they have been claiming special status as 'info-tainment' for some time. IIRC it was Leslie Stahl who used that defense in court a couple of decades ago, to dodge a libel charge. My mistake,I meant purple heart. Kerry did show valor in VN.And he deserved his medals,even if it all happened w/ in 4 months in the bush. To the shagrin of his commanders,when fired upon,he turned his boat towards the fire and charged the river side, beaching his boat.He then would pursue, chase and killed the enemy in-land.Pretty ballsy,IMO. He also went back into enemy fire to retrieve a sailor who was blown over-board by a shell explosion.If he was my commander,I know I could count on him. He volunteered during a draft and served honorably. Ever wonder what it`s like to be shelled?Shot it?Ever wonder what it`s like to kill? Even one tour of duty, could seem like a lifetime.

Alumbrado -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 10:57:31 AM)
quote: Though he is citing the individual's supposed failure to answer a single question- after I imagine hoards of such- as a debunking valid to you? Errrmmm... you might want to familiarize yourself with 'logical fallacies'. I was agreeing with you. Person 'A' claims to have a Silver Star with a 'V' device for valor. Person B claims that Person A's claim is spurious. Pointing out weaknesses in person B's other claims (to their own Silver Star) does not automatically negate the validity of their claim about person A's claim.

Alumbrado -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 10:58:32 AM)
quote: Ever wonder what it`s like to be shelled?Shot it?Ever wonder what it`s like to kill? I'm not the one who has never served.

ShyMistress -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 10:59:29 AM)
I have considered the Fox Network a piece of shit station ever since I had the not-so-wonderful experience of watching some "live" news report on a fellow who had stopped the traffic on a bridge and was having some sort of showdown there. In the end, after unrolling a sign that said "hmo's are in it for the money" (or along those lines), and a few other crazy things happened, he blew his own head off. This I might add was during cartoon primetime. Disgusting that a network is more interested in money then in the mental aspect of what millions of children are witnessing. And their solution, after the public outrage, to offer "phone-in counselling" free of charge!! I have never watched the fox network since, and I am not surprised they found a way to legalize their bullshit. { Edited to add that thankfully no, I did not have My child watching tv at the time...the cartoons were on for Me lol}

Owner59 -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 11:00:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: Though he is citing the individual's supposed failure to answer a single question- after I imagine hoards of such- as a debunking valid to you? Errrmmm... you might want to familiarize yourself with 'logical fallacies'. I was agreeing with you. Person 'A' claims to have a Silver Star with a 'V' device for valor. Person B claims that Person A's claim is spurious. Pointing out weaknesses in person B's other claims (to their own Silver Star) does not automatically negate the validity of their claim about person A's claim. I know you were.I was trying to make a larger point,w/ the latter part of my reply.

Alumbrado -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 11:03:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: Though he is citing the individual's supposed failure to answer a single question- after I imagine hoards of such- as a debunking valid to you? Errrmmm... you might want to familiarize yourself with 'logical fallacies'. I was agreeing with you. Person 'A' claims to have a Silver Star with a 'V' device for valor. Person B claims that Person A's claim is spurious. Pointing out weaknesses in person B's other claims (to their own Silver Star) does not automatically negate the validity of their claim about person A's claim. I know you were.I was trying to make a larger point,w/ the latter part of my reply. Your reply? Are you Curious Lord as well?

CuriousLord -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 11:04:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: Though he is citing the individual's supposed failure to answer a single question- after I imagine hoards of such- as a debunking valid to you? Errrmmm... you might want to familiarize yourself with 'logical fallacies'. I was agreeing with you. Person 'A' claims to have a Silver Star with a 'V' device for valor. Person B claims that Person A's claim is spurious. Pointing out weaknesses in person B's other claims (to their own Silver Star) does not automatically negate the validity of their claim about person A's claim. Oh, hah, please excuse me. I misread your statement. 'Debunking usually relies on something other than logical fallacies (like the above argumentem ad hominem).' I read this as, "Debunking usually relies on something, such as the above argumentem ad hominem, rather than logical fallacies." (I thought you were saying that attacking the source is a valid method of debunking, as debunking doesn't have to be proving that what the source is saying is a contradiction of self, or a logical fallacy.)

Durus -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 11:17:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 See, the swiftboaters did there damage,and even though it was all clearly pollitical, people were still duped. Clearly political? Is it wrong for concerned citizens to question the actions of a elected official? quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 The main swiftboat guy also got a silver star,from the same battle.But never mentioned that. Was his medal also undeserved? Very fishy. That is a strawman argument. Their main point wasn’t to question his silver star. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Which was polical and after his service. It goes directly against his making his service part of his campaign. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 He didn`t make up the rules for getting one.If you took a piece of shrapnel,two three inches into your arm or leg,they`d tug it out and put a band-aid on it.B/c that`s all most puncture wounds require. Even a shrapnel wound gets you a Silver Star.It doesn`t have to be a gun shot wound or loss of a limb. He didn’t make up the rules, but he may have made up the wounds and put in for the purple hearts himself. Releasing his service record would clear it up. (I’m assuming you are talking about purple hearts and not silver stars and you mistyped) quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 None of his boat crew went along with is.The people who attacked him,were polital opponants. The people that went against him were his fellow officers in the same command. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 So w/ that logic,I could accuse you of giving oral services to day laborers,for their pocket change.Of course the charge is outrageous,no matter,I have a group of your political enemies,who swear they saw you on your knees,on more than one occasion. No doubt you`ll protest and get angry,and cry foul. But who are we in public supposed to believe?One alleged cocksucker,or a whole group of guys,who work with you(and hate your guts).It`s hard to know who`s telling the truth,when no one even cares. There`s two different stories here.Who`s telling the truth?I don`t know. I guess the truth, in the end,will fall somewhere in between the two stories. And you`ll always be known,to at least some people,as the low cost cocksucker. Your logic is flawed. First of all I would have to be a manger or day laborers..and further I would have to be accused by fellow managers of day laborers. Then there would have to be some concrete way of clearing up the “he said she said” like the equivalent of military records…say like a surveillance tapes of the fields at the time in question. Knowing I had the tape, but refused to release them, while claiming that they would exonerate me, what would you be led to believe? The conclusion that most people would come to is that I was a cocksucker. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Now I`m not saying the you`re a cocksucker,Durus.I would say that you`re a dupe and a water carrier for a bunch of cocksuckers... Some of my favorite people are cocksuckers so I wouldn’t take it as a very serious insult even had you intended it that way. I would say that you are one of three things. You may be a “Usefull Idiot” meaning that you accept one side of an argument uncritically and will argue to your last breath despite being mostly ignorant of the matter at hand. You are a “fellow traveler” someone so dedicated to the “good fight” that little things like reason and facts don’t really get in your way. Or lastly you might be someone that thinks he will be in postion of power in the socialist utopia you are, knowingly or unknowingly, trying to create. Doesn’t really matter to me what you are…I just like tilting again windmills.

Owner59 -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 11:19:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShyMistress I have considered the Fox Network a piece of shit station ever since I had the not-so-wonderful experience of watching some "live" news report on a fellow who had stopped the traffic on a bridge and was having some sort of showdown there. In the end, after unrolling a sign that said "hmo's are in it for the money" (or along those lines), and a few other crazy things happened, he blew his own head off. This I might add was during cartoon primetime. Disgusting that a network is more interested in money then in the mental aspect of what millions of children are witnessing. And their solution, after the public outrage, to offer "phone-in counselling" free of charge!! I have never watched the fox network since, and I am not surprised they found a way to legalize their bullshit. { Edited to add that thankfully no, I did not have My child watching tv at the time...the cartoons were on for Me lol} Thank you Mistress, That was the point of my post.This is where all the mis-information is coming from. And with hoards of believers,the information stream gets poisoned. BTW,if one reads the stories I linked to,you`ll read that two reporters knew the info about the drugs was bogus,and refused to print it.For that they got fired!Fox lost the case,but later won on a technicality.Fox didn`t even try to claim they were telling the truth in the bovine growth hormone case.They only argued that they could lie,and won! I guess this is what neo-cons call a victory. This is why most fox viewers believe Saddam Husein had a roll in 9/11.Where nothing is farther from the truth.Yet,they believe the bull shut fox serves up. An un-informed population is one of America`s greatest threats. We can`t afford another bush,another Iraq(Iran?),we don`t have the capacity to absorb more of this folly.

boytoy4female -> RE: Fox News sues to lie,and wins! WTF!!! (8/16/2007 11:28:05 AM)
It appears to me that the problem, regarding this case, is not with Fox News. The problem is with the courts and the laws. How the hell can knowingly lying in a news broadcast, not be a crime? This issue appears to be even more confusing in that, why would a civil court trial or an appeal on the same, be concerned with it is legal or not. The families of the the murder victims received awards in spite of the fact OJ was declared innocent. This is proof that the laws are not for the common man and that it should be a conflict of interest for a lawyer to be in the legislature.

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