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Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 8:21:43 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		I found this fascinating, but I would really like to see if there are similar findings for women.

quote:

Straight, Gay or Lying? Bisexuality Revisited
By BENEDICT CAREY
Some people are attracted to women; some are attracted to men. And some, if Sigmund Freud, Dr. Alfred Kinsey and millions of self-described bisexuals are to be believed, are drawn to both sexes.

But a new study casts doubt on whether true bisexuality exists, at least in men.

The study, by a team of psychologists in Chicago and Toronto, lends support to those who have long been skeptical that bisexuality is a distinct and stable sexual orientation.

People who claim bisexuality, according to these critics, are usually homosexual, but are ambivalent about their homosexuality or simply closeted. "You're either gay, straight or lying," as some gay men have put it.

In the new study, a team of psychologists directly measured genital arousal patterns in response to images of men and women. The psychologists found that men who identified themselves as bisexual were in fact exclusively aroused by either one sex or the other, usually by other men.

The study is the largest of several small reports suggesting that the estimated 1.7 percent of men who identify themselves as bisexual show physical attraction patterns that differ substantially from their professed desires.

"Research on sexual orientation has been based almost entirely on self-reports, and this is one of the few good studies using physiological measures," said Dr. Lisa Diamond, an associate professor of psychology and gender identity at the University of Utah, who was not involved in the study.

The discrepancy between what is happening in people's minds and what is going on in their bodies, she said, presents a puzzle "that the field now has to crack, and it raises this question about what we mean when we talk about desire."

"We have assumed that everyone means the same thing," she added, "but here we have evidence that that is not the case."



Article
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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 8:30:12 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		A friend of mine posted it on her LJ too. It's ridiculous of course, suggesting that bisexuality isn't a real orientation and that you have to be one or the other or lying.

(in reply to Faramir)
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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 8:51:44 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

It's ridiculous of course, suggesting that bisexuality isn't a real orientation and that you have to be one or the other or lying.


It's just another bit of proof that my whole existance is a lie and that I'm a total fake ;)

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 9:00:48 AM   
MistressFire70


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Someone on this site lists themselves (in their profile) as het flexible. I thought that was pretty apt. I'm betting that being bi is more of a dichotomy, rather than “I am or I am not”. A lot of people I know that are bi have a tendency towards one sex or the other, but still find members of both attractive. I’d consider myself to be 70% het; I do find certain women attractive, but I’m more apt to find a man attractive. So, do I list myself as bi or het? I decided to go with bi, because I was more thinking about service relationships and I don’t care if service comes from men or women. Now, I’m wondering if I should copy the male submissive who listed as het, but then said he was het flexible. Hmmm…I need to update my profile anyway…

Fire

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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 9:04:48 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

het flexible


What is the difference between het flexible and bicurious?

These are all terms constructed to make us feel like we need to fit in somewhere. That is actually why I hate the word bisexual. I use it purely for communication reasons because what it communicates to the masses is that I have had and more then likely will have sexual relationships with both men & women. I don't subscribe to all the rest that goes along with it.

- LA

_____________________________

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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 9:10:46 AM   
Faramir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
It's ridiculous of course, suggesting that bisexuality isn't a real orientation and that you have to be one or the other or lying.


It would be ridculous to jump from a single clincial study to a comprehensive or defintive view of human sexuality. It would also be ridiculous to discount evidence from a clinical study because it doesn't match expectations or is upsetting.

I'd be interested in seeing more studies, and especially a study involving female arousal (maybe that would be harder to conduct). Maybe this trial shows something about male wiring, but doesn't include a psychologial or emotional aspect.


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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 9:44:50 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir


quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
It's ridiculous of course, suggesting that bisexuality isn't a real orientation and that you have to be one or the other or lying.


It would be ridculous to jump from a single clincial study to a comprehensive or defintive view of human sexuality. It would also be ridiculous to discount evidence from a clinical study because it doesn't match expectations or is upsetting.

I'd be interested in seeing more studies, and especially a study involving female arousal (maybe that would be harder to conduct). Maybe this trial shows something about male wiring, but doesn't include a psychologial or emotional aspect.



It doesn't matter what any study showed or will show, I am sexually attracted and aroused by both males and females. Case closed.

I would say the difference between het flexible and bicurious is someone who HAS experimented and isn't really curious, they just know their level of attraction allows some flexibility in terms of sex.

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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 9:57:11 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
It doesn't matter what any study showed or will show, I am sexually attracted and aroused by both males and females. Case closed.


Exactly. I have issues when lab rats use terms such as "liar" in regards to someone's identity. It's malicious and does more harm then good.

Like Em, I know what I am and that's all the proof I need.

quote:

I would say the difference between het flexible and bicurious is someone who HAS experimented and isn't really curious, they just know their level of attraction allows some flexibility in terms of sex.


Makes sense. Thanks.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 10:34:53 AM   
Gemeni


Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		I have noticed a tendency of some bisexual people to be more attracted to one sex than the other.

It only means that,nothing more.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 10:35:05 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


I would say the difference between het flexible and bicurious is someone who HAS experimented and isn't really curious, they just know their level of attraction allows some flexibility in terms of sex.


I think that is an excellent take on it. When I first came into collarme I checked the box for bi-sexual. I got way too much mail the focused on that orientation. That biggest of male fantasies to participate in or watch some girl on girl.
I truly enjoy sex with ladies, but I would never fall in love with a lady. It is pure sex to Me. I may love the girl, and be wonderful friends with the girl, but I am not out to hurt anyone who identifies as lesbian, or even bi-sexual, and would take it more seriously than Me. I could never view a relationship with a Lady, as far as a long term commitment, the same way as I do with a male. It's just not the same feeling.
So I switched My sexual orientation to straight. There's a bit of information I fudged! So for those who visit the boards, now you know. For those who don't, we won't need to visit that fantasy.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 7/5/2005 10:36:09 AM >

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Dusty
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(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 10:44:46 AM   
CalliopePurple


Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline 		I checked the box for bisexual at first, but trolls tended to hop on the bit in my profile where I mention that I have a girlfriend and message me wanting to see us together. Ugh. Exhibitionism isn't my thing.

But, contrasting with Dusty, I changed it to lesbian because I don't enjoy physical relationships with men. It's much easier for me to care about women and only consider men for occasionally playing around.

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Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 10:51:32 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

When I first came into collarme I checked the box for bi-sexual. I got way too much mail the focused on that orientation. That biggest of male fantasies to participate in or watch some girl on girl.


I have a similar approach to you Dusty. I am more emotionally attracted to men though I am very sexually attracted to women. I have, however, had long term relationships with women so I cannot say *never*, just unlikely.

I leave the bisexual thing there. And yes, I get some mail oriented towards girl on girl fantasy. To be honest, that's just fine with me. It acts as a filter. It shows me that this is what the boy is interested in and it aids me in making a decision to turn him down much faster ;)

- LA



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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 11:23:29 AM   
Faramir


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Joined: 2/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


It doesn't matter what any study showed or will show, I am sexually attracted and aroused by both males and females. Case closed.


Matters quite a bit actually - you see, the study wasn't about you. Since your not the case - case isn't closed.

No one is trying to use a clinical study to tell you how you feel - you feel as you feel, and you are the only duty expert in the world on you feel.

But since the study is about how groups of human males react in a controlled setting to sexual stimulus, your personal proclivities aren't meaningful.

It is very revealing that you made the leap from a value neutral study to someone telling you how to feel.


< Message edited by Faramir -- 7/5/2005 11:25:33 AM >

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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 11:27:01 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir


But since the study is about how groups of human males react in a controlled setting to sexual stimulus, your personal proclivities aren't meaningful.

It is very revealing that you made the leap from a value neutral study to someone telling you how to feel.


People do studies so they can take data from a small controlled study and try to apply it to the real world. People aren't given money to do studies like this just for kicks. I'm not saying the scientists who did this study are evil people, but using this to somehow support that bisexuality isn't a legitimate orientation is ridiculous.

Since I AM a bisexual, trying to say "this study supports the idea that you are really lying" does mean a lot to me.



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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 11:37:46 AM   
LadyAngelika


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Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Since I AM a bisexual, trying to say "this study supports the idea that you are really lying" does mean a lot to me.


This is also my point. Only I know if I'm lying. No study or test can tell for sure.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 11:43:57 AM   
Oumae


Posts: 911
Joined: 1/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

I found this fascinating, but I would really like to see if there are similar findings for women.



I have no idea about "official" findings but speaking about myself... I'm what was referred to as 'het flexible' and very comfortable with it... I would have to say if arousal was measured while I looked at pics it would depend on the pics shown.... artistic pics of women would do more for me then graphic pic of men, thats because subtle does more for me than blatant rather than female doing more for me than male.
Now pics of gorgeous male hairy chests..... well thats another matter

Oumae


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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 12:37:39 PM   
Faramir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
using this to somehow support that bisexuality isn't a legitimate orientation is ridiculous.

Since I AM a bisexual, trying to say "this study supports the idea that you are really lying" does mean a lot to me.


If fanyone tried to do that - make that leap, they'd be way out of line.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 12:40:45 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir


quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
using this to somehow support that bisexuality isn't a legitimate orientation is ridiculous.

Since I AM a bisexual, trying to say "this study supports the idea that you are really lying" does mean a lot to me.


If fanyone tried to do that - make that leap, they'd be way out of line.


But with the sensationalist headline, many will do just that.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 1:50:31 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		Well, that's the New York Times for you (or any newspaper).

Hopefully we are smart enough to read beyond headlines :)

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RE: Straight, Gay or Lying - 7/5/2005 2:29:30 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		Incedentally, bisexuality (in my case, pansexuality) doesn't require you be attracted to all genders the same way.

I am attracted to FtM transexuals more than I am to men. I am attracted to men more than I am to women. My attraction to androgynous people fluctuates, and I am attracted to asexuals on a case by case basis.

Being attracted to different types of people in different levles/ways doesn't negate that attraction. Just like you're still heterosexual if you're attracted to men of different hair colors in differing degrees.

Also, I understand what you're saying, Faramir, about the study not being about any one of us here as individuals. However, the studies findings -do- negate our existence. Because we exist and because we are bi/pansexual, the studies findings are incorrect. They are attemption to use a sampling of people to make statements about humanity as a whole. Even though we weren't inthe study, we are in part of hte goup the study is being projected to.

Not saying it didn't find interesting things, simply that the conclution that bi/pansexuality doesn't exist is a false one, because there are countless counter examples, myself included.

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