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RE: Jose Padilla convicted - 8/17/2007 5:58:01 PM

farglebargle

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Ah... St. Janice... One of the many, many casualties of the Nixon Administration.

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Jose Padilla convicted - 8/17/2007 5:59:10 PM

marieToo

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I thought jose padilla was that yankee catcher with really hot thighs.

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RE: Jose Padilla convicted - 8/17/2007 6:01:50 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Ah... St. Janice... One of the many, many casualties of the Nixon Administration.

Kris Kristofferson wrote the song, IIRC.

I do like her cover the best.

Sinergy

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RE: Jose Padilla convicted - 8/17/2007 8:18:24 PM

luckydog1

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The courts will have the final word, neither you nor I.

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RE: Jose Padilla convicted - 8/17/2007 8:37:25 PM

farglebargle

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What's the remedy for 500 days of Unconstitutional detention and torture?

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Jose Padilla convicted - 8/17/2007 8:48:52 PM

luckydog1

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We won't know untill they rule if there is any remedy required. My bet is there won't be.

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RE: Jose Padilla convicted - 8/17/2007 10:50:21 PM

farglebargle

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How do YOU think YOU would be made whole after being tortured for a year and a half?

quote:

Feds pay $80,000 over anti-Bush T-shirts

August 16, 2007

CHARLESTON, W.Va. --A couple arrested at a rally after refusing to cover T-shirts that bore anti-President Bush slogans settled their lawsuit against the federal government for $80,000, the American Civil Liberties Union announced Thursday.

Nicole and Jeffery Rank of Corpus Christi, Texas, were handcuffed and removed from the July 4, 2004, rally at the state Capitol, where Bush gave a speech. A judge dismissed trespassing charges against them, and an order closing the case was filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Charleston.

"This settlement is a real victory not only for our clients but for the First Amendment," said Andrew Schneider, executive director of the ACLU of West Virginia. "As a result of the Ranks' courageous stand, public officials will think twice before they eject peaceful protesters from public events for exercising their right to dissent."

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 8/17/2007 10:56:52 PM >

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Jose Padilla convicted - 8/18/2007 5:50:21 AM

Petronius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

This is new shit to deal with, and it takes time. The procedures have not been figured out yet.

There is no "new shit." There's only old crime. The procedures were long ago figured out. They're listed in Federal Law and the code of federal procedures.

Right wing authoritarians throughout history have invented the idea of something new or something especially horrible to rationalize their attacks on freedom.

quote:

Congress needs to set up a system to deal with non state, non Geneva covered people making war on the USA.

First, wars are conducted by, and only conducted by, nations. There are no simple "people making war on the USA."

Second, Congress has already covered the issue: there are no "non state, non Geneva covered people." Various Geneva Conventions cover everybody. Under them, persons involved in conflicts are either protected from criminal prosecution as lawful combatants, or can be prosecuted under the regular criminal laws. There's no such category as an "unlawful combatant" who has no protection at law.

Thus the broad National Alliance conspiracy that led to the terrorist bombing of the Oklahoma Federal Building may mark the members and supporters as "unlawful combatants." It doesn't justify holding them outside the USA; it does justify trying them for conspiracy just as Padilla was tried.

The Catholic clergy supporting abortion clinic bombing (as opposed to the clergy that did not) can't be "rendered" to a third country; they can be tried for supporting terrorism just as Muslim clergy are tried.

The Klansmen who bomb churches can't be denied their rights as "unlawful combatants;" they just get tried under regular criminal law since they lack protection as Prisoners of War.

We don't need special laws and procedures. The existing ones work just fine.

Yet despite all the talk from Bush supporters of a "war on terrorism" and the need for new laws, new procedures, "rendering" and the like, I don't know a single one who says "let's get all the terrorists including the abortion clinic bombers, the neo-Nazis, and the Klan."

On the other hand, I think it increasingly clear that the propaganda hype from the Bush supporters about a "liberal / Muslim" conspiracy is nothing more than the Nazi's "communist / Jewish" conspiracy updated by modern authoritarians to terrify modern paranoids.

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RE: Jose Padilla convicted - 8/18/2007 6:22:44 AM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Petronius

On the other hand, I think it increasingly clear that the propaganda hype from the Bush supporters about a "liberal / Muslim" conspiracy is nothing more than the Nazi's "communist / Jewish" conspiracy updated by modern authoritarians to terrify modern paranoids.

Well put, Petronius

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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RE: Jose Padilla convicted - 8/18/2007 6:31:57 AM

Alumbrado

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

I am not comfortable with 500 days, quicker would be better. However, why do you want to pretend it was 1300.

Was Padila free to go at any point during the 1300 days? If not, then he was held without trial for that long. Again, a hearing on procedural issues is not a trial on the arrest charges.

quote:

This is new shit to deal with, and it takes time. The procedures have not been figured out yet.

Yes they have. Refusing to abide by them until long after being ordered by a court is not 'figuring out'.

quote:

Farg in your quote from the Constitution, it does mention that it does not apply in times of public danger. .

I can't believe that no one else has called 'Bullshit!' on this. It says nothing of the kind. What branch of the service was Padilla in at the time of his arrest?

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RE: Jose Padilla convicted - 8/18/2007 6:46:44 AM

mnottertail

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At the very least, American noblesse oblige should say, look---we don't do that kinda shit here, and there should be unanimous lese majeste at these affronts.

We are not the global Okhrana. We are a free and just country by our constitution, and by our collective thought.

Levrenty Beria

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