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RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 8:58:22 AM   
CutieMouse


Posts: 81
Status: offline 		It's Pygmalion in more of Ovid's style (carving the ultimate woman from a block of marble), than Shaw's style (which was the basis for My Fair Lady).

I think it's something that needs to be approached cautiously, as it could be quite easy for a woman to fall into an "I'm not pretty enough" mindset. I am actually perfectly comfortable with my body as is, which (IMO) is vital to doing this sort of "body modification", while preserving a healthy self esteem.  It's also another one of those "be careful who you get involved with" things, as incompatability issues in this arena would be kinda big. Pick out my hair color/decide I'll only wear skirts/ask me to drop 10#/suggest a tummy tuck? No biggie. Try to tattoo me or announce I'm getting any sort of breast work done? Huge issue.  

I once had a relationship with a gentleman who preferred redheads... which is how I became one. I decided I liked being a redhead, so that stayed, even after the relationship ended.

The same gentleman had a thing for seriously thin women, and I humored him to a point, as I looked at it as a health issue. It would improve my health to lose X amount of weight, but I felt that beyond that number, it would be detrimental to my health, so I refused to go any lower. When that relationship got rocky/eventually ended, I gained back about half of what I'd lost (over the course of about a year), which is manageable, and I'm working on getting back to my goal weight (for myself).

In my current relationship I'm expected to be slim and healthy; when I reach my goal weight and have done as much work as is doable on my own, a tummy tuck is most likely going to happen. He sees no reason to have done all the hard work to look good, only to have the after effects of eleventy-million births hide the results of my efforts. LOL It is not something either of us will approach lightly (surgery never should be), but I know it's on the table up front, so I have everything I need to make informed decisions about being in the relationship. He has no preference as to my hair color, so I'm styaing a redhead; as for how I dress, I have excellent taste and style to begin with, so he doesn't have a lot to mess with there, anyway.

It's very interesting to me to see people's reactions when I acknowledge that I am open to altering myself for my Lover. 95% of the reactions I get, assume he's looking to make me a Barbie doll, or will toss me aside once I'm older, or I must not like myself very much to allow such a thing. It's also assumed that we've not had some really serious conversations about why he wants what he wants, what will happen when I'm older (and no longer a "hottie"), and how the fact that I'm actually 100% comfortable "as is" means I can walk away from this any time I want. It might not make any sense to anyone else, but I know I don't need a to drop X amount of weight, or get a tummy tuck, or do anything else to be desireable, so it doesn't bother me to do them.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 11:50:04 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I think I get what you're saying, and for myself I don't see anything wrong with it.

I'll use myself as an example.  Master found me and due to the way I responded to him and the submission I offered him, decided he wanted to keep me for himself.  I was far from perfect.  In fact, I was lost and a bit of a mess, mentally, and very overweight.  He didn't take me in as a "fixer upper," he took me in because something in my heart touched him and he knew with the way I was submitting, he could mold the rest to his liking, which was ultimately to mine.  I would have more to offer him if I was of sound mind.  I would feel better about myself if my body were healthier. 

He didn't focus on the body first, however.  He focused on teaching me to think, to feel, to be self aware, to love myself, to be happy, to withstand the hardest of times, to know my own strength (I'm still learning that one).  The stronger I have become, the more he values the submission I bring to him, and the more that submission which first compelled him to take me rises to the surface.

It would have saved him a lot of work had I been mentally healthy from the start, but he chose to invest that work, not as a "kink" but as an effort he felt would pay off for us both.  Now that my mind is relatively in good shape, he is focusing me on my body.  Again, not as a kink, but as a preference, and one he knows will delight me as well.

These aren't changes that I didn't want.  These aren't changes that will ruin me should he ever dismiss me.  These are permanent modifications that have benefited me greatly.  The tattoo he marked me with is something I will wear and honor whether I belong to him or not, because it represents all he has taught me and all he has done for me.  As with everything in life, we are touched by those with whom we cross paths, and everyone has an effect on us, be it great or small. 

In the case you present, you are offering someone an opportunity that they can choose to take you up on or not, and to whatever degree this appeals to her, she will be committed to the process.

In my case, I find absolute joy in my Master's satisfaction and pleasure.  He can choose to modify my body in any way he pleases now and I would willingly go forth and indulge him, whether the change is exciting or excruciating.    It's the dynamic I want and need to be in.  It's how I think.  And for me, any change I make to my body for him that I personally might not prefer if left up to me, is a small sacrifice to make for the ultimate greatness I feel in belonging to him.

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 1:39:16 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		~smiling at ownedgirlie~ That's lovely.

And I agree. I would enjoy such a thing as Stephann stated in his OP. Part of it, as LA mentioned, is the authority, part of it is the caring, and part of it would be doing things that required such ~effort~ on my part - to eat healthy, to make different choices, to notice myself and take care of myself. It happened to a degree, in fact.

Following M's advice I find that I do feel better about myself, even though that relationship really never took off. I kept doing what he suggested that I do to be more physically attractive, and I feel terrific about me. I pay attention to myself, remember that I'm important, and my physical appearance is definitely a reflection of my Self. I wouldn't have done it just for me. Having that direction, though, was a definite motivator (he still checks on me to make sure I'm happy and doing well) and he tells me how proud he is of my determination to make a healthy change. It feels good.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 2:22:06 PM   
charlotte12


Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline 		Sounds yummy and scary at the same time. i will write more later (have to go back to work now :P )

_____________________________

Stephan's slaveling

"I'm not superior, I'm just more important." Master (Stephann)

"When you are your freest self, who are you?" Jack Rinella

(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 4:06:13 PM   
tanntannerside06


Posts: 1
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Typically i believe that body mods, are a hazard to your health, thats just myy view..


tannerside

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 4:23:14 PM   
twistedkytten


Posts: 240
Joined: 9/8/2006
Status: offline 		here's a thought... submission is doing something that has no benefit for you whatsoever except to please your Master. i do not see the issue... because when a girl does reap the benefits..of Masters desires..  be it by pleasure, or by.. Oh i don't know.. looking into the mirror... realizing as well as seeing... you are exactly as He wishes you to be... EXACTLY.. He has molded and shaped You to be His ... mmmmm lovely. 
i have seen nothing in this thread about any of the mods being harmful.. did i miss something?

< Message edited by twistedkytten -- 8/17/2007 4:24:28 PM >

(in reply to tanntannerside06)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 5:35:50 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I am not sure if I will express myself well or not, but this post has sparked some interesting thoughts for me.

This has the potential of being an extremely powerful and strengthening experience for the submissive but it could also be very damaging.

For myself, part of my value and self esteem is wrapped up in my body and I am not overly thrilled with the package.  I imagine it could be quite liberating to disassociate who I am from the outer shell and removing my choice of what the outer shell looks like can be a step in making that happen.  To know that no matter what the outer shell looks like I am still me and I have value.  That is rather empowering.

In my relationship, I do not have the authority over what changes I make with myself.  He has the authority and since he likes the way I look, I am not required to modify much.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 5:50:55 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline 		Maybe it would be more palateable without the severe diet... everything goes better with chocolate

This is actually the kind of control that i would like to experience as a sub, so i don't really see anything wrong with it... perhaps it's a matter of body image, though...

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 7:08:22 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		To the OP..I once was a nurse at a plastics surgery center..I saw many women come through there, getting all sorts of body modifications done, with the primary interest in being pleasing to their SO, but not one of them ever expressed that they were against this,,,not at all..they were excited, and could not wait to see the finished product...while some nurses thought, "how awful" that he cannot accept her for how she is, and have her suffer through this surgery, the pain and risks...I often thought..how lucky that she and her SO are to have the werewithal to be able to afford this ,but that, he was willing to invest so much,, not only money, but time and patience for the healing process..and that in the end..she may gain more confidence, and pleasure in her appearance as well as he...Tempting.

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to petdave)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 7:26:26 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		This is something  I, too, am very interested in with either a male or female.  I enjoy alterring myself and would enjoy very much having another submit to my alterring them.

While *everything* we do in this lifestyle can be very unhealthy if done wrong or with the wrong partner, there is no reason to assume that this *would* be or *must* be.  It's simply another matter of compatibility...

Traveling the path of alteration and decoration with someone as interested in the process and results as I am and who enjoys the submissive aspect would be a very pleasant thing.

_____________________________

Relationships come and go, but plastination is forever.

I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

Minimal summary: Artist, Disabled Veteran, Vegan, Pornographer, and Agender dominant female.

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 7:28:07 PM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		It sounds like you'd be working with someone who was very committed to this idea - in fact, if you did it, you'd probably find yourself having to set limits and slow her down, rather than push her into things.  So long as you were careful about her health, and took it slowly over time, it doesn't sound any more dangerous than a whole lot of other things discussed on this site.

It could be a new TV show - 'REALLY Extreme Makeovers!'

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 8:58:39 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
\For myself, part of my value and self esteem is wrapped up in my body and I am not overly thrilled with the package.  I imagine it could be quite liberating to disassociate who I am from the outer shell and removing my choice of what the outer shell looks like can be a step in making that happen.  To know that no matter what the outer shell looks like I am still me and I have value.  That is rather empowering.

In my relationship, I do not have the authority over what changes I make with myself.  He has the authority and since he likes the way I look, I am not required to modify much.

Knight's Kyra

I can say I've experienced this with clothes over the past few years.

I went from fat non self esteem yucky girl, into sexy college fashionista, into full blown costume garnering stand and model slut, into what I am now- someone who loves clothes but could just as soon do without them (unless it's cold).

Clothes use to intimidate me.  Then I learned to love them as shields and protections, boosters and glamours.  Then they became part of my identity completely, myself and my clothes were total reflections of my personality.

ANd somehow after that, they simply became "me."  I love clothes, I still do, I love fashion, I like dressing well and creatively.  But really, I do what *I* will with them.  I do not serve them anymore, and I do not feel they are things I NEED in order to feel good about myself.  I don't NOT wear black at clubs anymore because it's so tired and boring and cliche- I don't not wear black generally because it doesn't suit my personality or mood (though I still enjoy being different).

For me that is empowering indeed.  

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 9:24:49 PM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Stephann,
 
Very interesting thread and the resulting responses...
 
Personally, i see nothing wrong with it between consenting adults...certainly, as i think you elluded to, WIIWD can have far more harm than the "rebirth and remodeling" of a submissive. If someone found the core of me worthy of remolding within agreed upon and reasonable parameters, i would be quite flattered. But i am probably different than alot of women in that i am not satisfied and content to remain status quo... i am always pushing myself to be better at whatever. At the end of the day, i find  contentment in the knowledge i strived to better myself at something not in the illusion that what i am is good enough. To have additional motivation, such as pleasing a Dominant, is good for me. If i am not satisfied with myself, i certainly don't expect a Dominant to be~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 9:43:49 PM   
ShannonNoelle


Posts: 16
Joined: 8/14/2007
Status: offline 		As someone who has done alot of the modifications you mentioned (hair dyeing, extreme hair styles, peircings, tattoos, casual corseting), though not in a BDSM setting, I would have to say that you would have to chose the submissive very carefully. Some women are very attached to their hair, as you will see on shows like What Not to Wear, and would be hesitant about changes. Some people hold religious beliefs against piercings and tattoos. You would have to be very up front with the issue to avoid problems for ust those reasons.

Personally, I find the idea of getting a piercing(s) for a master very sexy and very emotional. I would see it as a tangible sign of ownership, just as a collar is. But depending on what and where, you may never have to take it off. You could have the "guilty" little pleasure of your master's ownership on you at all times: at the store, at work, at clubs, anywhere. . .

The only issue I would have is with tattoos. I personally am already tattooed (three red roses, for those wondering). I would never be able to get something on a highly visible place, of an X-rated nature, or writting/names. I would think, if you can't show it to the grandkids then don't get it. Only something symbolic or seemingly innocent, like a date (you first met or were collared, etc.)

Over all, I would think of body modification as another step in fufilling you master's fantasies, as another way of showing ownership of your submissive.

(in reply to dawntreader)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Body Modification - 8/17/2007 10:16:08 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		I  love the idea of being customized to fit my Dominant, especially through body modification.  I have always been fascinated by body mods.  I got many of my piercings at a young age (14-15) because my mom supported me/signed the waivers.  Those changes have become permanent to me.  Not having my tongue ring would be like shaving my eyebrows off. 

When I met my Dominant, I was one paycheck away from getting my nipples pierced.  Ironically, being his dream girl took me in the opposite direction of extreme.  I am not allowed to get anymore piercings.  I have fourteen and am allowed to keep those only because in his words...'They're tastefully done.'  I can't dye my hair any unnatural color.  I can't have fake nails.  It's not how I would choose to look, but it is super hot to be controlled in that way.  It makes me feel really special when he treats me like a doll he is dressing up.



_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to CutieMouse)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Body Modification - 8/18/2007 4:06:49 AM   
acissej


Posts: 2370
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		As a fantasy, I think extreme body modification is hot--it's up there as one of my favorite fantasies.  I love the idea of being molded to fit someone else's desires.  As a reality, it's not something I'd consider...well, maybe the diet and the wardrobe overhaul (you're buying, right?).  For the rest, I'm too much of a wuss, and I'm not comfortable making permanent changes that I might regret in years to come. 

In theory, if I entered a relationship where the possibility of such modifications had been thoroughly discussed and agreed upon, I don't think it would mess with my self-esteem.  Since Stephan was saying he would avoid surgery except in the case of necessity (medical necessity, I'm assuming), and I wasn't born with metal in my nipples or a brand on my rear, I wouldn't feel inadequate for not having them.  The only touchy subject would be weight, but if I was giving someone this much control, I'd trust he would handle it in a sensitive manner and know me well enough to figure out the best way of approaching it.

(in reply to junecleaver)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Body Modification - 8/18/2007 6:07:44 AM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		I have had a kink for body modification.  Nice thing is I found a partner who shared that kink.   Well I found a man with whom I shared an overall compatiblity.  Oh loverly.  We also share this kink.

The first thing we did was getting my naval pierced.  Nothing so outrageous.  And easily closed up.  It's now been 2.5 years later.  Everything we've done I can aggressively repurpose should we break up.  I'm arrogant, confident.  I know I'm great.  I like how I look.   I've always felt that way.  And I like making these changes together.  I like the 0 gauge triangle piercing.  I like the breast augmentation and so does everyone else in my life, including my momma.

Sharing this together has been an intimate journey.  And I've loved it.  I've been actively engage in it.  Emotionally.  Intellectually.  Etc.  It's not for everyone but for that right someone?  Who shares your kink.  And has a well developed sense of self.  Yum.

Most might not like it but it only takes one or two truly compatible people n'est ce pas?


_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Body Modification - 8/18/2007 1:13:57 PM   
dogthing


Posts: 98
Joined: 9/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Traveling the path of alteration and decoration with someone as interested in the process and results as I am and who enjoys the submissive aspect would be a very pleasant thing.


Yes. Finding someone with similar interests and appreciations, and then giving yourself to them so they can reinvent and redesign you and take you further than you'd dare to go yourself - it's an attractive prospect.  Like you, I find the prospect of either role fascinating - transformer or transformee.
Some people seem to see this as automatically a case of the transformee being unfairly taken advantage of, or the transformer not liking their partner, or not appreciating them for what they are, and that's not always the case. It might be that they both love exactly the same ideas, and are both savouring every little stage of the transformation just as much.

(in reply to RumpusParable)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Body Modification - 8/18/2007 5:18:41 PM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline 		The other thing I read in some of the posts here is a sense that body modification means that the person does not like you as you are.  And that makes like no sense to me.  I put on makeup. I wear high heels.  I wear jewelry.  I spend gobs on spas.  Many women modify themselves quite regularly.  One might argue that those women do not like themselves but I bet most of us would not make that argument.

_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to dogthing)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Body Modification - 8/18/2007 5:47:09 PM   
sublimelysensual


Posts: 298
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		I was actually kind of surprised at the number of negative responses. Corset training is pretty high up on my list of desires, I love the classis hourglass shape and would be on it in a heartbeat, have researched it, etc. The same goes for branding; while it certainly isn't something I'd jump into after a few months of being with a person, it's also high on the list.
 
   I realize that some people just aren't into body mods and completely respect that. To me, things like my hair, my weight, my figure, are not who I am, they have no effect on my personality or intelligence or morals. That isn't to say I don't take pride in my appearance, or that I go out looking like death warmed over, but I would take that same type of pride no matter whether my hair was long or short, whether I weighed 120 pounds or 350 pounds.
 
  As others have said, as long as the two people have similar interests, all is good. Personally I don't see it as a damaging thing to someone with healthy self-esteem, and while I don't go into relationships with the thought that they're going to end, if it does..gain the weight back, get a tat to cover the brand, let the piercings heal over..I realize it may not always be that simple for everyone, but I guess for me, it is. Just my two cents, as always..
 
-a  *getting ready to go drool at some corsetry sites*
 
 

_____________________________

"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." -Simone De Beauvoir -'The Second Sex'

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 40
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