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Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 6:49:30 AM

petdave

Posts: 2479
Status: offline

Kind of a rant, kind of a pondering... some of the recent body modification threads have got me to wondering...

With the divorce rate over 50% in the U.S., you still rarely see people going up to the bride or groom after a wedding and telling them "Psst, just make sure you keep everything in your own name, now... A marriage is just a few years, but bad credit will haunt you forever!"

Within the BDSM community, however, it seems de rigeur to warn s-types to never accept permanent marks. The assumption of every D/s relationship seems to be that it is doomed.

i do not like this

Now, if you know one or both people in question, and you've seen her string of ill-advised, Jerry Springer-worthy boyfriends and heard all of his tales of joyous infidelity, then warning a potential partner can be a reasonable act.

When you know nothing about the person or persons in question, though, aside from the fact that they're proud and excited about their relationship and want a lasting symbol of it... To gallop in as the white knight with dire warnings of how they'll live to regret it seems well past presumptuous and into downright insulting.

But, in my experience, that seems to be a common, and even "The Wise" response.

i iz a hopeles romantick?

Post #: 1

RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 7:09:24 AM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
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*S* I hear ya. I think it is what we all feel about those we know around us but don't say because we want to be supportive of our real time friends. Here we are not the real time supportive friend so we say what we really want to shout to everyone? just speculating.

Disclaimer: we is a collective whole, not you, not me, not her, not him, not dave. collective whole.

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Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to petdave)

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RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 7:32:21 AM

kyraofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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While I dislike the dire warnings as well, I don't think that you are making a fair comparison.

Starting out a D/s relationship is not usually equivalent to getting married. For the most part, people who get married have an established relationship with each other where they have demonstrated their commitment to each other. There are exceptions to this where people get married within weeks of meeting each other, but that is not the norm. Some couples are in a relationship for years before getting married.

I think it is more appropriate to compare starting a D/s relationship to couples who start dating. From what I have seen, the amount of time people spend getting to know each other and establishing a relationship with each other before commiting to a D/s relationship is more comparable to how long a couple starts to see each other exclusively and not how long before they get married.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to petdave)

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RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 8:34:43 AM

earthycouple

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very good point kyra

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D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

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RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 8:47:18 AM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
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There are many Reasons ..I think it all goes back to the fight or flight syndrome.. I think people have become lazy in working at relationships any problem that happens they just bail. and then they get the whole comunity involved in their relationship back stabbing Dom's fickle Subbie's.. deceitful Dommes what a melting pot of people for prozacville i think its high time people get there big heads out of their butts and start being apart of the person they are with.. stop being individuals who act monkeys with no common sense. you love someone you stand by them. if your a Dom domme you help them guide them.. if your a sub bring them joy and and learn how. be something more then a sex toy .. and on both sides of the fence learn how to cater to each other as a friend a lover a caregiver. AND STOP PLAYING TO THE MEDIAS WANTS AND DESIRES...

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 5

RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 9:04:32 AM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
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And now for something completely different.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

There are many Reasons ..I think it all goes back to the fight or flight syndrome.. I think people have become lazy in working at relationships any problem that happens they just bail. and then they get the whole comunity involved in their relationship back stabbing Dom's fickle Subbie's.. deceitful Dommes what a melting pot of people for prozacville i think its high time people get there big heads out of their butts and start being apart of the person they are with.. stop being individuals who act monkeys with no common sense. you love someone you stand by them. if your a Dom domme you help them guide them.. if your a sub bring them joy and and learn how. be something more then a sex toy .. and on both sides of the fence learn how to cater to each other as a friend a lover a caregiver. AND STOP PLAYING TO THE MEDIAS WANTS AND DESIRES...

huh what?

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

Post #: 6

RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 9:11:59 AM

lateralist1

Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
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How to get into the rght relationship is the biggest problem that I have ever encountered. It's a lot harder than in the vanilla wold and that's difficult enough.
And how far in do you have to be to commit.
To really get to know someone well takes years.
And you only do it then if they will allow you to,
The problem as I see it is how much time and energy am I prepared to spend finding out that someone is wrong for me or I'm wrong for them. And lets face it splitting up isn't easy. So like everything else it's a balance between serious intention to commit and not actually doing it until you are both sure. It frightens me just how easily people seem to commit but it is understandable especially if you have been looking for a long time. We all want to be happy and when we find someone who makes us happy then we have a tendency to think it will go on forever. And who knows it might..
It actually doesn't help if other people tell you it's ot possible to find the right perso

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

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RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 9:14:16 AM

lateralist1

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Joined: 11/22/2006
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Now I have to learn how to edit my posts. Can anyone help?

(in reply to lateralist1)

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RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 9:16:46 AM

mnottertail

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there where reply, quote forward buttons are in the post header there is an edit for your posts button, if the edit timer has not expired.

Ron

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(in reply to lateralist1)

Post #: 9

RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 9:43:34 AM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

I agree that it is in poor taste, but I suspect that this picture is a bit more complicated than it sounds.

Every individual has his or her own idea of just what a D/s relationship is as well as how it should work, and there is a level of acceptance that there is no right and wrong way. Whatever you seek is what is right for you and there is no ultimate D/s authority outside of those legal, moral and ethical laws governing specific behavior, and of course the bounds of mutual consent.

When it comes to marriage, however, while individuals may have different ideas about exactly how a marriage should work, there is a social consensus that a marriage is a (presumed) lifelong commitment between two individuals to live together as a conjoined entity. This consensus is both facilitated and enforced by legal and religious entities, with defined rights and responsibilities for each within the marriage.

In essence, I think that there is a greater variety of possibilities for D/s relationships and the people who seek them have inherently more expectations. Where a "typical" couple will go into a marriage with little more than the general idea that they will live together, love each other, and build a home and family together until death parts them, I think most people who enter into a D/s relationship have specific thoughts and goals for how the relationship will work (perhaps even on a daily basis), how it will make them feel, and what it will ultimately achieve.

I believe that more experienced persons within the BDSM community are aware (unconsciously, perhaps) of how transient the nature of D/s relationships can become when those high levels of expectations aren't met... when real life doesn't live up to the fantasy.

This doesn't excuse bad manners, but at least for me, it's understandable.

(in reply to petdave)

Post #: 10

RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 11:38:14 AM

LATEXBABY64

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Joined: 4/8/2004
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so what you saying is its just a bag of nuts and we are one peanut in the bunch

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 11

RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 11:52:49 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I think it depends on when these "dire warnings" are given.

If someone is asked their opinion or for advice, I think they have two choices: give it or remain silent. I should hope that any advice would be from experience or involve asking a lot of questions to get the person seeking advice thinking for themselves.

If you are not asked for advice or an opinion, well then, giving advice to a bottom is no different than giving advice to your neighbor when it is unasked for.

Also perhaps I run in odd crowds (who would have thunk it?) but even vanilla folks are told to be able to live on their own just usually not at the wedding itself but certainly before and after it. Don't become too dependent on him/her. You might need some marketable skills in the future. Don't you have any friends of your own? And my favorite one (that's sarcasm by the way): You know, women live longer than men so you should learn how to do that yourself.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to petdave)

Post #: 12

RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 12:20:21 PM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

There are many Reasons ..I think it all goes back to the fight or flight syndrome.. I think people have become lazy in working at relationships any problem that happens they just bail. and then they get the whole comunity involved in their relationship back stabbing Dom's fickle Subbie's.. deceitful Dommes what a melting pot of people for prozacville i think its high time people get there big heads out of their butts and start being apart of the person they are with.. stop being individuals who act monkeys with no common sense. you love someone you stand by them. if your a Dom domme you help them guide them.. if your a sub bring them joy and and learn how. be something more then a sex toy .. and on both sides of the fence learn how to cater to each other as a friend a lover a caregiver. AND STOP PLAYING TO THE MEDIAS WANTS AND DESIRES...

"SMILE!! You're on candid camera!!"

What the hell does the media have to do with the fact that I want no permanent marks, that I won't give up my place of residence or my bank account or anything else that makes sure I'll be able to care for myself if something happens on down the road?

These are choices I make for myself - not for anyone else and I make no apologies for them. I looked for someone who would understand my personal requirements and honor them. That had nothing to do with the media and everything to do with the fact that when I met him, I was the age you are now (speaking to Latexbaby) and he was 9 years older than me. I have, nor have I ever had any plans to be in another relationship but life is what it is.

I had no plans when I married at the age of 21 to ever divorce my husband - but I did just that - 18 years later. I am now 48. Life has a nasty way of doing to us what we never expect and my Master is older than I am. I'm under no illusions.

My sister-in-law had no plans to end her marriage, but the death of her husband when she was just 34 and he was 36 did that for her. She's 53 now, and while she's had other relationships along the way, they haven't lasted. And believe me, the media had nothing to do with her situation either.

Some of us understand that the one thing that's consistent about any relationship - any relationship at all - is that it ends. The relationship may end by death or it may end because the two people no longer work together as they once did, but it still ends. So, we opt for no permanent marks, and a lot of other things that make sure we're taken care of in the event that the relationship does end.

And the media has zero to do with any of it.

When people like me warn others that things are never permanent, we're not saying "watch out for that guy." We're saying that stranger things have happened and that before you go putting marks on your body, you might want to give some thought to the possibility of how you might feel about those marks on down the road if the worst comes to pass.

It's not meant to be insulting, but sometimes that's how it comes across. I understand that. However, insulting or not, I'd be willing to bet that it has not one darn thing to do with media or stupidity or having one's head up one's ass either for that matter.

juliet

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

Post #: 13

RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 12:55:47 PM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
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someone said a true test of a relationship is how you weather a storm. now that being said not everyone is going to fit into the xyz box. it is what two or in some cases for those liberal left people three people or sheep shrugs. How you interact both internal and external with in your given enviroment Nilla and DS.. can it be yes people been doing it for years. but it takes work a lot of work.. i guess to the best way to describe it is that game with the blocks you turn different ways lol do it right and the pressure stays down do it wrong and it builds up

(in reply to julietsierra)

Post #: 14

RE: Fatalism/pessimism and D/s relationships - 8/18/2007 1:28:00 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64

so what you saying is its just a bag of nuts and we are one peanut in the bunch

Err... no.

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

Post #: 15

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