RE: Eradicating women. (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:11:07 AM)

Well, it's true that many thrive on conflict [:D].




SusanofO -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:20:11 AM)

Orion theWolf: I don't see this as some competition for excellence in the world, nor as an effort to equalize everyone's resources. I see it simply as a call to alleviate severe suffering, period. It's simpler, and it works better for me that way. But to each their own POV.

- Susan




SusanofO -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:23:16 AM)

Sinergy: Donating time is something I think is just as valuble as donating money. And sometimes a heck of a lot more difficult.

- Susan




YesMistressIrish -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:29:02 AM)

Domiguy wrote:
"It's not that I don't care...It's just that it is India's problem....I could worry over the plight of the women of India until I lose sleep and have lost all appetite....I will end up a skinny, tired corpse....The situation in India would remain the same unknowing of my spectacular sacrifice....It's fine to be aware of a situation that exists....You either do something about it, or just acknowledge it that it is happening but is a problem well beyond your scope of influence....Sort of the serenity prayer approach. "

Now on the other hand I have this fucking neighbor....
 
Domiguy, Well said.
 
And, for me, doing even a small thing is better than no thing at all. Discussing and educating are great places to start, and donating money or time also makes me feel better.
 
It is when I do nothing for a cause that impassions me to act that I feel lousy inside. Making sure that I can spread myself thickly enough for those things I feel most drawn to so I can be effective in creating a positive change, and letting the rest go takes discipline, and patience.





Sinergy -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:29:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Sinergy: Donating time is something I think is just as valuble as donating money. And sometimes a heck of a lot more difficult.

- Susan


Thank you for saying that, SusanofO.

I cannot hear that enough.  The beauty of what the students tell me I do for them, as well as the tragedy of the need to end violence against people rends my soul at times.

Sinergy




kittinSol -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:29:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Eradicate competition, and conflict among the various cultures and such of mankind,[...]



"Humankind" please, Orion, "humankind" ROFL!!!




domiguy -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:30:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Sinergy: Donating time is something I think is just as valuble as donating money. And sometimes a heck of a lot more difficult.

- Susan


Actually for most people...Their time is a far more valuable currency than their monies.  It great to donate money...Just make sure as Sin  mentioned that it is actually reaching the the ones who need the charity.....It is far easier to write a check and feel like I have accomplished something than to actually volunteer my time....I am not being critical...I donate money, but my time is what I place supreme value on...It is of substantially more worth to me than my dollars.




SusanofO -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:34:32 AM)

domiguy: I agree it's easier to write a check, and time is a valuable resource for most people, I very much agree. Donating time is really a neat thing to do - I think it's more personal. I always, always check a charities annual reports(usually listed on their websites), and if they are spending more than about 28% on administrative costs, I pass them by.

- Susan




meatcleaver -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:34:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


I answered this question to some extent. It predates historical time to the dawn of mankind and relates to the 9 months to 2 years where a woman is basically helpless to care for a man's children, as well as the male need to ensure that his own bloodline is carried on.

It is covered in great detail in "Why is Sex Fun" and "The Third Chimpanzee" by Jared Diamond, among other works by people such as Marx, etc.


This is not true. Indo-European cultures closely related to the indo-European culture of the sub-continent developed with women being independent property holders and able to hold positions of rank and even be warriors and tribal leaders. Please tell me how this is so and how these great thinkers were ignorant of what we know of indo-European cultures?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
You guessed incorrectly.

Abortion is a complex and emotionally charged issue which almost invariably results in a screaming fight between people.  I have already discussed my own personal opinions on it in other threads, and I was commenting here on a thread which discusses the eradication of women.  Abortion is ancillary to that topic.  I suppose a similar example would be arguing over what particular method is used to kill a prisoner on a thread about the morality of the death penalty.

I was simply comenting on a societal issue which impacts the human species in China and India, to a lesser extent in Australia and Canada.  I suspect the drop in birth rate will eventually impact the rest of society as the sperm counts drop planet-wide from environmental toxins and people stop having children for various reasons.

I am neutral about the emotional aspects of the situation.  It is possible to describe a burning house without being emotionally charged about how evil fire is, feeling like God is punishing me for burning the house, or blaming a massive conspiracy for wiring the burning house with explosives.

Interesting opinion.  It is, however, just that, an opinion.  It reminds me of the right-wing cutting of funding of a program which studied the sex-lives of long distance truckers.  The study intended to track the spread of HIV by studying a sub-culture, yet was shot down by right wingers as being "valueless" research.

I personally think it is important to do an epidemiological study of HIV in order to figure out how best to approach stopping it, but too many people have their knickers in a knot because the disease is on the list of sexually transmitted diseases.  Therefore, we must all cover our eyes and pretend it will go away, apparently.


As your is an opinion but I fail to see where HIV comes into it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I would love to see your sources on this.

Prostitution is the oldest profession because those who work in it, regardless of culture or society, possess a product the market desires.  This has nothing to do with west or east.  It has to do with poverty and need.



Of course it is poverty and need and western militaries where ever they went in south east asia where more than happy to oblige in fullfilling the local need for cash with their need for sex. The western military and political leaders happily turn a blind eye to what their service men are doing. But then, my guess is they are just fullfilling a social service in the same way we were when we were exploiting them for their raw materials.

As is western sex tourism in the far east.....sorry, it is not the west's fault it feeds these industries, that is just anpther social service.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

One of the most arrogant things that many in the West do is assume that they imported something to other societies which already existed there before the west showed up.  You dont think it is possible that women and men since the dawn of mankind spread their legs to barter for what they needed to survive?  Or did this practice only come about with the rise of Western Culture circa the 15th Century?

Sinergy


Actually the proselytizing was referring to the import of Christianity which did create a proselytizing culture. Before the import of Christianity into northern Europe, north Europeans didn't send people around the world or what they knew of the world telling other people what they should believe. They were quite happy just cracking a few skulls.

To say all peoples do this is beyond me because I don't ever recall a Bhudist, Shintoist or a Jew telling me how I should live my life, only christians and proselytizing liberals.




kittinSol -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:42:12 AM)

And cultures worldwide continue to perpetrate violence against women because of their sex.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/Ratify_the_Treaty_for_the_Rights_of_Women_CEDAW/About_this_campaign/page.do?id=1021185&n1=3&n2=39&n3=719




meatcleaver -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:46:49 AM)

An interesting sentence.

U.S. failure to ratify the Treaty undermines the powerful principle that human rights of women are universal across all cultures, nations, and religions, and worthy of being guaranteed through international human rights standards. It is time to stand firmly for the rights of women internationally by ratifying this Treaty.
 
About fingers and mirrors...




Sinergy -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:47:41 AM)

meatcleaver,

I cannot make hide nor hair of your post, but I will try to respond.

I have already stated that there are exceptions to the general societal construct which marginalizes women.  From my understanding, these sorts of societies develop during times of little / no warfare and there are a surplus of males.  It is a supply / demand issue, not a "western culture bad" sort of thing.

I understand you do not understand about the relationship between HIV and the sex lives of long haul truckers.  To recap a bit, truckers have an entire sub-culture of prostitution, etc., which is fluid and mobile in our society, and results in the spread of HIV.  I posted the link to the study in another thread, but if I remember correctly the article I read about it was in Discover about 3 years ago.  I also tracked down the researchers paper and read it, but it has been years and I dont remember where I found that.  Feel free to do a search on their web site.

Prostitution is discussed in the old and new testaments, the Koran IIRC, and the woman Buddha allegedly lived with prior to attaining Nirvana was described as a prostitute.  These all predate "western culture."  Seems a bit arrogant and condescending to make the statement that there was no prostitution before the West showed up.

I studied the sex trade in Thailand and other parts of Asia rather extensively at one time.  It is possible to establish a connection between western involvement and the modern sex trade, although a good argument could be made that the sex trade would exist whether or not the West was involved.  Thailand has never been colonized in it's entire history, the West may visit, but they have not imported their culture there.

Sinergy




kittinSol -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:49:10 AM)

My point exactly: it's universal. Like the plague.




SusanofO -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:51:27 AM)

kittensol: Good idea! They have a well-done website, IMO. I think this is a great organization, and I highly recommend it as far as actually helping to alleviate suffering resulting from and try to progress with work to eliminate the kinds of problems we've been discussing. This website has great information (plus an actual way to help, that takes about 2 minutes to sign up to do). Very convenient.

If anyone looks under Women's Rights on the first page, there is a special section that deals with human trafickking. I was just reminded that Greece is another country that has a lousy track record as far as women's rights, and sex traffickking using young girls. And who could forget about Darfur? Lots of females and children being killed there on a daily basis.There is also a section on Childen's Rights. I love ot that they label their headlines: Take Action!

- Susan




kittinSol -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 8:59:40 AM)

Amnesty always had my respect. They're spot on, and they take no prisonners. They'll hunt after human rights violation throughout the planet.

And yes, they emerged in the UK. And yes, they're a non-governmental organisation which the United States hate, because they say they have an ideological bias against them.

As if [8|].

PS: I've actually been a member since I was a student. Huh... many years ago :-(  But since I saw UNH is the top seventh party university in the USA I might well go back to do a Mistress Degree in Gender Studies hahahaha. Haaaaa... huh... forgedabowtit.




SusanofO -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 9:02:27 AM)

Well I don't. I've been a fan of theirs for at least 10 years. That's just stupid nonsense ideological political tough-talk, and excuse-making, if people here want to say that, IMO. I suppose everyone has a favorite charitable organization. If they really hate it, then they can find some other way to help, maybe.

- Susan




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 9:04:07 AM)

Oh I forgot having to be politically correct. Fuck that.

Notice definition number 1:

man·kind
play_w("M0083000")


 (m[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/abreve.gif[/image]n[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image]k[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/imacr.gif[/image]nd[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif[/image])
n.
1. The human race; humankind. See Usage Note at man.2. Men as opposed to women. 
from another source

man·kind (măn'kīnd') [image]http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/pron.gif[/image]
n.
  1. The human race; humankind. See Usage Note at man.
  2. Men as opposed to women

yet another source

mankind definition
n.
1. The human race; humankind. See Usage Note at man.2. Men as opposed to women.

and from M-W


mankindOne entry found for mankind.




Main Entry: man·kind [image]http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif[/image]
Function: noun singular but singular or plural in construction
1 /'man-'kInd, -"kInd/ : the human race : the totality of human beings
2 /-"kInd/ : men especially as distinguished from women  
Now if you want to feel slighted, go ahead but I was using the first defintion, and I am not going to cameltoe to this PC bullshit.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Eradicate competition, and conflict among the various cultures and such of mankind,[...]



"Humankind" please, Orion, "humankind" ROFL!!!




mnottertail -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 9:06:06 AM)

synecdoche, please, Orion, synecdoch...ROFL

Ron




kittinSol -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 9:06:07 AM)

Well, if it was down to the US government, Amnesty would have closed shop years ago; never underestimate the United States' government's capacity for attempting to gag whomever they see as their opponents :-( . Or any other governement, for that matter.

Trouble with Amnesty is that people still believe it's a sub-agency of the communisty party (one of its founders had tenuous links with the communist party: booh [:D]!).




Alumbrado -> RE: Eradicating women. (8/21/2007 9:07:07 AM)

Witness.org is doing some very good work.




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