Aswad
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Joined: 4/4/2007
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ORIGINAL: SusanofO
Aswad: I see your point, but - I think what kittensol was maybe saying, and the entire point of this thread - is that when sufferring of one portion of a population reaches such non-egalitarian and severe proportions (such as in Darfur, for example)that entire parts of it are being wiped out due to those beliefs, it isn't just "to each their own" anymore - it might be time for others to help take action to help alleviate their suffering. Bosnia is another great example.
Sure. Go down there. Provide an alternative. Or find someone who does. Give them a choice. kittenSol claims to be pro-choice. But she's only pro-choice as long as the choice is to her liking. That's not pro-choice at all. What you're both saying is "you can have as much freedom as you like inside the kennel I put you in". That's not freedom of choice.
These people are screwed. And they do desperate things to fix it, regardless of what the law says.
If someone puts a gun to my head, I will defend myself, regardless of what the law says.
These people have a figurative gun to their head, and are dealing with it the same way.
Preventing them from trying to "fix" their situation will do nothing but breed contempt and insure they stay in the situation they were trying to get out of. It's like when a company up here suggested that they could fund a factory in wherever, set up so that they turned a profit, but the entire profit would go to educating and providing for the poor kids that would be working there. They suggested this because that's something they could afford to do, and which would help in the long term.
Obviously, the chorus of naysayers cried "Child labour! Oh, the horror!", and then the factory was never built. Instead of a few hundred children growing up with a stable income, a roof over their head, and a proper education, a few hundred kids were fed for a little while, then they just starved to death, and nothing had changed.
Limiting the number of female offspring makes things better when the population cannot sustain itself. Limiting the number of male offspring makes things better, too, but only if it's a whole lot worse, as men are not at risk of becoming pregnant, but still have the capacity to work. They will contribute a certain number of work-years, then die, leaving no offspring to further increase the burden on society. Those who do well for themself will end up with the women that are available, and those women will be better off, as will their children.
It's cynical, perhaps, but reality is harsh.
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So is the Holocaust.
The only thing that brought an end to the Holocaust was that Hitler just had to take it too far. Humanitarian concerns were nice propaganda material, but they were not a factor in deciding to end it. In fact, the extent of the Holocaust was only known at a later point in time, and had the beneficial effect of ending the prevalent anti-semitic attitudes of the day.
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I've had a problem with the dowry system in India since the first time I heard about its consequences. It really amounts to financial extortion. The fact it is a "tradition" doesn't really disguise that (to me).
I couldn't care less about tradition. But I care about people getting to choose for themself. Various soldiers have said "I may not agree with what you say, but I will die for your right to say it." Somehow, it doesn't have quite such a nice ring to it to say "I may not agree with aborting your female offspring, but I will die for your right to choose to do so." Doesn't make it any less valid, though. Either we accept freedom, or we reject it. Freedom within the confines of what the majority considers acceptable is not, and has never been, freedom.
That said, I dislike the concept of a dowry. The specifics are unimportant.
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I don't have to live there, granted, so maybe it's none of my business.
That would be my take on it.
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However, I can maybe make a financial donation to help alleviate it, or something like that.
Go there for a vacation. Find a doctor that provides these services. Tell him that you are looking for someone who has made the decision to have an abortion due to the gender of the child, and that you want to pay him what he would be paid for his services, along with paying the family for giving you the child. Then bring it back home with you.
That's helping, albeit limited in scope.
Alternatively, solve the poverty problem in India. It does more good, but is more difficult.
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The people, who actually live in these countries don't like these ideas either (in many cases).
So those people don't do those things, or they are just hypocrites. News at 11, or not.
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The only reason I can see that their objections are diregarded are:
Doesn't matter much. The reason their objection should be disregarded is that it's the woman's choice.
(Yes, I know about pressure, etc., but that applies in the west, too.)
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1) They are female - so their opinion doesn't really "count" anyway, - although I am sure many men object as well (especially the fathers of daughters, most likely)
Quite possibly. If the woman isn't given a choice in it, you can help educate women to bring about change from within, the way these things always start (if successful). Travel down there, or pool money with others to hire someone to do so, and start a school for women who want an education, give them that education for free, and tell them to teach others.
If the pregnant woman has a choice, respect her choice.
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2) These traditions are ingrained in the culture, via centuries of use.
There are many traditions in the western culture that are abhorrent: lack of LGBT marriages, lack of recognition for kinks and power-dynamic relationships, use of the death penalty in some countries, reliance on oil over renewable energy sources, public obsession with media personalities, interfering with other cultures and countries, using abortion as a retroactive contraceptive, crappy public education in some places, trends toward Orwellian societies, property tax, animal rights atrocities, and so forth.
Doesn't mean I'm in favour of invading any of these countries to change their culture.
Perhaps I should start a thread on how Palestinian girls are DRE-searched at Israeli airports.
Except that thread would be pulled, obviously, as we don't talk about such things here.
_____________________________
"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.
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RE: Eradicating women. - 
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