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Define Slave - 7/6/2005 3:45:03 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I’m not asking for a slave vs sub discussion because those are set to fail and go nowhere.

I was thinking about this today after reading a collarme members website. As long as I’ve seen this member on the boards they have seemed pretty upfront about who they were. Generally a top. No issue with that.
So after reading the site I find out he now is a slave, searching for a slave. Which in my mind would now be a switch?

I know what my definition of a slave is. I also know others use it to fit into the lifestyle.
My definition is what I learned at a very early age. What was a slave in the 1800’s? Mere property. They had no limits. They were bought and sold. Killed when needed.
Only reinforcing my ideas were the first couple I met when she was killed.
Today, I don’t believe I know any slaves. Not those types of slaves.

So, I’m here asking for honest definitions to hopefully help myself evolve to today’s way of thinking. I’m not asking for flame wars. I know everyone will have different definitions. I’m hoping to hear many so I can have a well rounded definition myself.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 3:59:41 PM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		Just a quick reply to start with ~ I will probably be back for more later.

Just wanted to point out that taking historical evidence of treatment of slaves needs to be done with care, since slavery has existed in many incarnations. I've posted here before on the subject of slaves in Classical Greece and Rome ~ these societies had laws which protected slaves, so that the killing or cruel treatment of slaves was answerable in the courts. Of course there were different types of slave then (as there are now), and some types of slaves were very much more expendable than others ~ those working in mines or other industry for example. Even so, a blanket idea from the past of 'all slaves can be killed by their owner, on a whim' is in fact, incorrect.

~ Elektra




(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 3:59:47 PM   
Gemeni


Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		In the consensual realm........

One who submits herself to totally serving a trusted Master, and takes his limits as her own.

< Message edited by Gemeni -- 7/6/2005 4:00:43 PM >

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 4:04:12 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Even so, a blanket idea from the past of 'all slaves can be killed by their owner, on a whim' is in fact, incorrect.


Unfortunately I've known a slave who was killed by her Master in the early 80's. Indirectly killed but killed never the less.

Which is why I'm trying to change my way of thinking.

(in reply to ElektraUkM)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 4:07:08 PM   
lilboycaught


Posts: 65
Joined: 5/3/2005
Status: offline 		A true slave is property, must do as they're told and has no rights.

The distinction, however, between slaves as they have been historically defined and slaves as they are defined in the D/s world is that in the old days the Master/slave relationship was recognized --and enforced-- by society. A D/s slave is in a situation where the Master/slave relationship is recognized only by them. Moreover, it is concensual (usually) and the slave (in most cases) is free to leave and abandon their slave status at any time.

But within the agreement they have, he/she is still property, still must do as they're told, still can be disciplined for disobedience, still has no rights. The difference is that this relationship can be ended by either person involved.

That doesn't mean that every Master/slave relationship is "pure." There are variations. Some masters may grant a slave a limited slate of rights, and of course, there are subbie/slaves...many combinations and permutations.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 4:08:49 PM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

quote:

Even so, a blanket idea from the past of 'all slaves can be killed by their owner, on a whim' is in fact, incorrect.


Unfortunately I've known a slave who was killed by her Master in the early 80's. Indirectly killed but killed never the less.

Which is why I'm trying to change my way of thinking.


Not sure where you're coming from with this. Women get killed all the time by their partners. I don't think kiling a partner is condoned by anyone, anywhere. I don't think you will find too many people willing to suggest that being a slave (in the bdsm sense) means that their owner has free reign to do them in ... Better stop here because it's late and I should probably wait for a little clarification :)

~ Elektra

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 4:11:26 PM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilboycaught

... The difference is that this relationship can be ended by either person involved.


OK, one last comment.

Again, taking a historical perspective. It was possible for slaves in Classical times, to buy their freedom. Slaves had a price, and if the slave worked for long enough, and accrued enough money (yes, they could earn money too!), then they could pay the owner and gain their freedom. I can provide references and so on for people interested.

~ Elektra

(in reply to lilboycaught)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 4:16:48 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I don't think you will find too many people willing to suggest that being a slave (in the bdsm sense) means that their owner has free reign to do them in ... Better stop here because it's late and I should probably wait for a little clarification :)


That is exactly why I'm asking everyone for their opinions on what it means to them.

25 year's ago, I would'nt be so sure. Today times have changed. The internet has given birth to many different ideas. So, I'm just trying to catch up to today's thinking.

(in reply to ElektraUkM)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 4:52:28 PM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElektraUkM

I don't think you will find too many people willing to suggest that being a slave (in the bdsm sense) means that their owner has free reign to do them in ...



My Master has free reign over me. I gave him that reign, that right, that ownership. This is but one difference between D/s slavery today and historically: I freely elected to enter into this relationship with the knowledge and trust that he would not 'do me in'.

ElektraUkM, thanks for bringing up other slavery cultures. There is a great deal to be learned from these societies.

(in reply to ElektraUkM)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 6:02:14 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		My definition of a slave in a M/s consensual relationship is that of a person who is oriented towards relationships in which ultimate authority over all possible aspects of life are transferred to another, accepting the limits and conditions of that other person, who holds and uses that authority.

Historically slaves were generally property to be used and sold as appropriate. Rules and feelings towards slaves varied greatly depending on the culture and time period.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 6:32:32 PM   
domtimothy46176


Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline 		toy and I have a mutual understanding of the term "slave" that we use within the scope of our agreement. Basically it boils down to obediance. I command and she obeys. She is mine, physically, emotionally and intellectually. She is mine in every aspect of her existence. Rather than get into a sidebar discussion of limits, rights and hypothetical situations, I will clarify that she also has a clear understanding of what my personal values are and understands that I will not ask her to act in opposition to her own personal values. For all practical purposes, however, her existence is as I define it. For us, this is slavery within the BDSM master/slave frame of reference.
Good luck in your research,
Timothy

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 7:27:19 PM   
softandshy


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		i would agree with Emerald. It is very much a question of seeking ultimate authority.

< Message edited by softandshy -- 7/15/2005 6:49:40 PM >

(in reply to domtimothy46176)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 8:55:46 PM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		That "name" we use here is totally inadequate due to its historical conotations.
A "slave" in the context of this site is defined as a person who has such a level of trust in another that they give ALL of themselves over to that person. emotionally, physically and Financially. They are totally in and under the control and guidence of that person they trust.

It defines a person who has freely and completely given themselves over to another for their use. No limits, no safewords. TOTAL submission, Total trust.


_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 11:03:40 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni
In the consensual realm........
One who submits herself to totally serving a trusted Master, and takes his limits as her own.

This is also my understanding of a slave (substitute "herself" with "himself" as it would refer to mine).. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Gemeni)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 11:09:46 PM   
Senko


Posts: 30
Joined: 6/26/2004
Status: offline 		To me a slave is someone who consentually gives up all control over every aspect of their being. And before you say "that isnt gorean..." yes it was. The books often show a women conciously submitting to the will of a man she respected, reveered, and in some cases loved. But in the gorean ideal, once the control has been given, it has to be given back for the relationship to end. This is also a reason a gorean slave isnt collared in RT for quite some time. But the ones where the proper protocols were followed throughout the relationship and effort was made on both parties, I have yet to see a relationship fail....

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Define Slave - 7/6/2005 11:51:09 PM   
SteelBondager


Posts: 86
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline 		Even among slaves (obviously), the term is open to discussion and debate.

To me, she's a slave if she says she is. Her definition is what I'm concerned with.

Personally, I treat slaves as property. Sometimes like a workbench I solder and spill coffee on, but more often like a $200,000 sports car. I'm demanding and will put her through her paces, but I will spend my time and attention on her. I'll keep her safe and healthy. I'll buff out her steel collar and make it shine.

I respect her right to retain her identity and actually have a personality.

(in reply to Senko)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Define Slave - 7/7/2005 9:50:14 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
People might not like this or agree.

Personally Gloria, I think people should go out of their little glass houses and meet a REAL slave.

And yup folks - I did say the taboo word, and just this once, I really don't give a rats bottom.

It's all very well having wonderful discussions about the relevancy of using the word slave in BDSM, but the reality is that slavery exists. You can argue until your blue in the face that slavery is relevant in BDSM. You can discuss the history of slaves all you want. The fact is that, today, slavery is illegal and non consensual act of owning property.

In nambia, hundreds of young people are sent away by their parents every night to sleep on the streets, to protect them from being taken as slaves.

In japan, slaves are made, bought, kidnapped and sold every minute.

In the USA, people are kidnapped and tortured and used as slaves with no ability to escape.

Its happening away from you, and also down your street.

So make some effort guys - go talk to a real slave - hear their story, and realise exactly what slavery involves.

Peace and Love




_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Define Slave - 7/7/2005 10:06:02 AM   
lonewolf05


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

I’m not asking for a slave vs sub discussion because those are set to fail and go nowhere.

I was thinking about this today after reading a collarme members website. As long as I’ve seen this member on the boards they have seemed pretty upfront about who they were. Generally a top. No issue with that.
So after reading the site I find out he now is a slave, searching for a slave. Which in my mind would now be a switch?

I know what my definition of a slave is. I also know others use it to fit into the lifestyle.
My definition is what I learned at a very early age. What was a slave in the 1800’s? Mere property. They had no limits. They were bought and sold. Killed when needed.
Only reinforcing my ideas were the first couple I met when she was killed.
Today, I don’t believe I know any slaves. Not those types of slaves.

So, I’m here asking for honest definitions to hopefully help myself evolve to today’s way of thinking. I’m not asking for flame wars. I know everyone will have different definitions. I’m hoping to hear many so I can have a well rounded definition myself.


---------------------

quote:


So, I’m here asking for honest definitions to hopefully help myself evolve to today’s way of thinking. I’m not asking for flame wars. I know everyone will have different definitions. I’m hoping to hear many so I can have a well rounded definition myself.


--------------

since you name yourself for-hire why does it matter? aren't YOU just after the $$$$?

but since you asked.
as a slave, i am at Her beck n call 24/7/365 no time off no vacation no sick leave...
i serve MERELY TO serve..........period.
i ask for NOTHING in return.
i do not ask or expect a damn thing from anyone for anything.
i am independant enough i don't NEED to. i do not need or ask for sex or play or to be loved romantically.
i do not ask or expect ANY ties that can be held-over-my-head and thrown back in my face. i wasn't raised that way.

the wolf


_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"


(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Define Slave - 7/7/2005 10:12:44 AM   
Gemeni


Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		I've also noticed that the heavily structured D/s relationships where both worked towards all encompassing mutual goals were the most sucessful.

These involve things which must be earned on both sides.

Collars given for shallow reasons are those which come off the quickest.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Define Slave - 7/7/2005 10:27:02 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

People might not like this or agree.

Personally Gloria, I think people should go out of their little glass houses and meet a REAL slave.

And yup folks - I did say the taboo word, and just this once, I really don't give a rats bottom.

It's all very well having wonderful discussions about the relevancy of using the word slave in BDSM, but the reality is that slavery exists. You can argue until your blue in the face that slavery is relevant in BDSM. You can discuss the history of slaves all you want. The fact is that, today, slavery is illegal and non consensual act of owning property.

[blah blah blah - all this shit that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand]

Its happening away from you, and also down your street.

So make some effort guys - go talk to a real slave - hear their story, and realise exactly what slavery involves.

Peace and Love



What a deeply stupid and offensive post.

1) Spare us. Your moral posturing isn't morals - it's self-indulgence. "Little glass houses"?? You've got to be shitting me. Hey, here's a suggestion: get off the internet and actually do something instead of lecturing your betters.

2) You're dishonest. Words have different denotions, and deliberately misconstruing someone else's sincere attempt at dialogue to stroke yourself is contemptible. The OP has nothing, nothing to do with your fatuous, pompous nonsense post - she was sincerely trying to discuss and analye an M/s issue to help herself understand her own psycho-sexuality.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 20
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