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Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 10:30:28 AM   
Bobkgin


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Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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As most everyone knows, there is a lot of non-consensual manipulation on any bdsm board.

Whether it is the wannabes, or a clique of posters who bully their way around the boards, there are more than enough people who see nothing wrong with non-consensual manipulation: providing they are the ones doing the manipulating.

Their targets: anyone with insecurities and/or low self-esteem.

While it is debatable whether those with insecurities and low self-esteem should even engage in bdsm, the fact remains they -are- here, they will seek, and they will likely find someone.

Whether that "someone" is a god-send or an abuser is another matter.

The first step in handling manipulators (there is no avoiding them) is to have as clear an idea as possible about who you are and what you want.


Who you are:
Those with insecurities and/or low self-esteem have a horrible time with this question. For whatever reason, they have a biased view of themselves, quite often deeming themselves lucky to have anyone at all and quite willing to change anything in order to obtain approval from others.

Not good. This is how you get manipulated into all sorts of things you never wanted to experience and never dreamed anyone would seek from you.

There is an enormous difference between someone who will do anything because that's what they want, and someone who will do anything to attract a partner.

Don't be the latter. That's how you end up getting abused. And then you blame yourself for the abuse (after all you agreed, right?). This further reduces your self-esteem, and the cycle comes full circle when you do it all over again.

To avoid this, make a pact with yourself to decide what you want and to stick to it no matter how many people say "I'd want you if only this were different".

Those people are not leading you to your dream.


What you want:

This is essentially a two-day process.

The first day, write down all the qualities you want to find in your partner. Nothing is too insignificant, nothing is too unreasonable. It is your dream list, and you should prepare it with pride and confidence.

Read it over through the day, adding or changing whatever seems appropriate for you.

Then sleep on it.

Next day, read that list again. Is everything there? You are bound to find things you overlooked. Perhaps these are things you felt no one should expect: expect it anyway.

Make that list as complete as possible: it is your checklist, not just for the partner of your dreams, but also to ward off those who will pressure you to accept them instead.


Running the ad:

Bottom line - the checklist is the ad. You can post it as is, or write it out in prose and poetry. You needn't include everything on your list, but everything on your list will still count for you. Remember your pact to yourself. This is how you keep yourself from being lured with promises of companionship if only you'd do things you don't really want to do.

Expect everyone to say they like what you like. No way to tell the real from the fake at this point. They will all say they like what you wrote.

So before you answer, do a little homework.

Examine their profile:
- If it lacks details, that is a stroke against them. They can just as easily answer -any- ad as yours with no details posted.
- Interests listed that you want to avoid, another stroke against them. Perhaps they're flexible about those activities, or perhaps they didn't bother to read your ad, or they don't care what you want. Be wary.
- Age, location, appearance etc, compare with your checklist.
- If they don't have a picture, ask for one. Do not make -any- committment without one.


Inquiries and Responses:
Manners always count. be sure to use yours, and expect it from others. You don't belong to anyone but yourself, and have assumed no role in anyone's life. You should be treated as such, regardless of what your ad says.

It is up to you to give others permission to treat you differently. They should know this if they know what they are doing.

Aside from what many people have said, short introductory notes are fine as long as they are directing you to read a detailed profile/journal. Keep in mind those who are seriously searching will have put the time in on their profile, and it is unreasonable to expect them to re-write it when introducing themselves to you.

Whatever you send out, re-read it twice to be sure you've weeded out anything that sounds desperate or needy. Your search only requires one promise from you eventually: to meet the person who fits your checklist. Don't issue any other promise, nor make promises to meet anyone else.

Bear in mind the only way anyone is going to trust you is by the promises you keep. Show that your word means a lot to you and their trust will be easier to obtain.

If you must break a promise to meet, do so before the date and request a new date (assuming you are not breaking your promise because you've just discovered the individual in question is not the right choice). If you were forced to break a promise without being able to give notice, apologize as soon as possible, explain the cause (assuming discretion permits it) and request a new date.

While no promise should be broken, it is not always possible to keep them. Be sure you limit yourself to only one such incident per individual, as a pattern of broken promises will not give the individual in question much reason to believe you.

This is one good reason for making promises as scarce as possible.


Requests:

No doubt there will be plenty of these, from pictures to online sex to webcams to ...

Consider the degree of familiarity that exists when the request is made. Do you feel comfortable agreeing to this, or are you doing it to keep their interest?

Avoid the latter.

You should never agree to a request with which you are uncomfortable.

Bear in mind there is nothing wrong with a request (depending upon the way in which it is asked), and there is nothing wrong with refusing a request.

It is strictly a matter of your comfort level.


Temptations / changing your mind:

There is no easy way to address this topic.

I said earlier that your checklist was your way of avoiding being abused and/or used.

However, you are going to be tempted to change your mind from time to time.

It may be new ideas that appeal to you. It may be a bout of loneliness that weakens your resolve. It may be the individual is playing on your insecurities.

Whatever you do, do not change your checklist without a struggle.

I suggest that whatever changes you might wish to make should go through that two-day process you used to generate the checklist in the first place. Give serious thought to why you wrote the checklist the way you did and how the changes will affect the outcome for you: will you be happy with that person living that way?

This is not to say you should never change your checklist, only to recognize that it is in these changes that the potential for undesirable results exists.

So be careful with this.


Self-esteem:

There really is no substitute for self-esteem. If you think poorly of yourself, spend some time working out why you feel this way. Perhaps writing out a list of qualities that cause you to think this way. Now put yourself in the shoes of your best friend and look over that list, and imagine what he or she would say were he or she reading it.

Hearing a lot of disagreement? Most likely. Those with low self-esteem rarely deserve to feel as they do. But through a variety of means they have been taught that their opinion of themselves is less important than the opinion of others. They fail to take into account their accomplishments, and magnify their mistakes. They tend to blame themselves for the faults of others, and certainly focus on their own faults almost to the exclusion of any good qualities they have.

We all have faults. We all stumble. We all make mistakes from time to time. Do not hold your humanity against you. If you are not a vicious person, have not gone out of your way to hurt others, wish to love and be loved, you have many excellent qualities that you should value. Are you good with children and pets? Do you want to help those in need? You cry and laugh at all the appropriate points in a movie? Look at all the little things you do to make the lives of others more enjoyable, and you will find someone worth knowing, worth loving.

Embrace who you are, and who you want to become.

And keep in mind something I like to believe (whether it be true or not, no one ever knows):

Somewhere out there is your partner, and he or she is feeling just as empty and lonely as you, because you aren't in his or her life. That's the person you are looking for. That's your Beloved. If you give up, or settle for less, your Beloved wanders the earth without you, always missing you. And you cannot achieve all you can be with someone who is not suited for you.

That's why you make a pact with yourself to stick with your checklist: to find your Beloved and so your Beloved can find you.

-----

Will this protect everyone? Probably not. Human interactions are the most complex and there is no catagorizing all of those which can lead to abuse.

But I do believe the advice above will help some find the path to a healthier self-image and thus be less vulnerable to manipulation.

Wishing you a safe journey through life.

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 8/21/2007 10:38:43 AM >
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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 11:25:40 AM   
stef


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Captain Saveaho, you're my hero! 

~stef


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Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 11:35:16 AM   
KatyLied


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quote:

Captain Saveaho





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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 11:39:50 AM   
Owner59


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Man!...You`ve put quite a bit of time into these thoughts and feelings.

"Embrace who you are, and who you want to become"
 
That line said it best,IMO.

When I was 20 and started karate training,I couldn`t spare w/ someone ,without having a belly full of butterflies.My mind jammed up and I usually got my ass kicked.It was a scary process.You sit along the wall,till you`re picked,along w/ another fellow.You face off,and fight on command,and stop when told to,etc.

One day, I realize as I stepped up to spare,that the guy facing me had the very same insecurities as I did.Had the same feelings and butterflies in his gut ,that I had.No one lives with out some level of insecurity.The way you handle them makes all the difference.True ,it was a simple insight,but the deepest insights are most often the simple ones.

That insight helped me with not only martial arts,but w/ everything I did,from dating ,to running my business,to dealing with a grumpy father.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 11:50:31 AM   
Bobkgin


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From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Man!...You`ve put quite a bit of time into these thoughts and feelings.

"Embrace who you are, and who you want to become"
 
That line said it best,IMO.

When I was 20 and started karate training,I couldn`t spare w/ someone ,without having a belly full of butterflies.My mind jammed up and I usually got my ass kicked.It was a scary process.You sit along the wall,till you`re picked,along w/ another fellow.You face off,and fight on command,and stop when told to,etc.

One day, I realize as I stepped up to spare,that the guy facing me had the very same insecurities as I did.Had the same feelings and butterflies in his gut ,that I had.No one lives with out some level of insecurity.The way you handle them makes all the difference.True ,it was a simple insight,but the deepest insights are most often the simple ones.

That insight helped me with not only martial arts,but w/ everything I did,from dating ,to running my business,to dealing with a grumpy father.


Interesting. I started the process I described under "Self-Esteem" when I was 20. Changed my life.

I'm still my toughest critic. But that only drives me to be a better person, day by day.

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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 11:58:38 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Man!...You`ve put quite a bit of time into these thoughts and feelings.

"Embrace who you are, and who you want to become"
 
That line said it best,IMO.

When I was 20 and started karate training,I couldn`t spare w/ someone ,without having a belly full of butterflies.My mind jammed up and I usually got my ass kicked.It was a scary process.You sit along the wall,till you`re picked,along w/ another fellow.You face off,and fight on command,and stop when told to,etc.

One day, I realize as I stepped up to spare,that the guy facing me had the very same insecurities as I did.Had the same feelings and butterflies in his gut ,that I had.No one lives with out some level of insecurity.The way you handle them makes all the difference.True ,it was a simple insight,but the deepest insights are most often the simple ones.

That insight helped me with not only martial arts,but w/ everything I did,from dating ,to running my business,to dealing with a grumpy father.


Interesting. I started the process I described under "Self-Esteem" when I was 20. Changed my life.

I'm still my toughest critic. But that only drives me to be a better person, day by day.



I'm still my toughest critic.
 
Me too.

At around that same time,I did the EST training(a very intence seminar).From that I learned that looking inward and being mindful of who you are,helps w/ everthing you do.
I think it`s key to being content.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/21/2007 12:04:41 PM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 12:16:31 PM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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I really like this piece, but I think a cavaet needs to be made on a 'dream list'. If it is so detailed and you are rigid in your expectations, your pool from which to choose is going to be quite small and you just might miss your beloved if you're blinded to reality by your own fantasy. 

Without compromise and flexibility, relationships are going to be hard pressed to be found much less succeed. My own Master has many of the qualities which I find desireable in another person, but he doesn't have them all and if I had not been willing to look past those few flaws (and he mine) we would not have had the last twelve years together in mostly M/s bliss. Reality should be a forerunner when writing a list of any sort by which to find a partner and I think it behooves someone to separate what they 'must' have and what they 'want' to have in a partner. Michael had all of my 'musts' and most of my 'wants'. He also had a few of my 'ughs and ews' but none of my 'nevers' and that worked quite well for me.  

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 12:19:07 PM   
Bobkgin


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From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Man!...You`ve put quite a bit of time into these thoughts and feelings.

"Embrace who you are, and who you want to become"
 
That line said it best,IMO.

When I was 20 and started karate training,I couldn`t spare w/ someone ,without having a belly full of butterflies.My mind jammed up and I usually got my ass kicked.It was a scary process.You sit along the wall,till you`re picked,along w/ another fellow.You face off,and fight on command,and stop when told to,etc.

One day, I realize as I stepped up to spare,that the guy facing me had the very same insecurities as I did.Had the same feelings and butterflies in his gut ,that I had.No one lives with out some level of insecurity.The way you handle them makes all the difference.True ,it was a simple insight,but the deepest insights are most often the simple ones.

That insight helped me with not only martial arts,but w/ everything I did,from dating ,to running my business,to dealing with a grumpy father.


Interesting. I started the process I described under "Self-Esteem" when I was 20. Changed my life.

I'm still my toughest critic. But that only drives me to be a better person, day by day.



I'm still my toughest critic.
 
Me too.

At around that same time,I did the EST training(a very intence seminar).From that I learned that looking inward and being mindful of who you are,helps w/ everthing you do.
I think it`s key to being content.


I should have mentioned this in my OP:

When I realized I could -learn- to do better, everything else fell into place.

Learning is a never-ending, life-long process, and it is incremental.

All we have to do is shed the ego that insists we must be right all the time. When we accept that we are sometimes wrong, and don't feel all defensive about it, we are open to learning that which is right.

And sometimes, there is no wrong or right.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 12:28:35 PM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
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From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

I really like this piece, but I think a cavaet needs to be made on a 'dream list'. If it is so detailed and you are rigid in your expectations, your pool from which to choose is going to be quite small and you just might miss your beloved if you're blinded to reality by your own fantasy. 

Without compromise and flexibility, relationships are going to be hard pressed to be found much less succeed. My own Master has many of the qualities which I find desireable in another person, but he doesn't have them all and if I had not been willing to look past those few flaws (and he mine) we would not have had the last twelve years together in mostly M/s bliss. Reality should be a forerunner when writing a list of any sort by which to find a partner and I think it behooves someone to separate what they 'must' have and what they 'want' to have in a partner. Michael had all of my 'musts' and most of my 'wants'. He also had a few of my 'ughs and ews' but none of my 'nevers' and that worked quite well for me.  

Celeste


Those are good points, Celeste.

I tried covering this in the "Temptation/Changing your mind" section, but I think you've added far more colour than I did.

I think each person will approach this according to where they are in their growth process. Some will write a list that describes one person in six billion, and then look. But they are free to change the list as they feel comfortable with the changes.

And of course, how they compose the list to begin with will also determine their dating pool.

But too loose a list -just- to maximize the dating pool is more likely to lead to undesirable consequences along the way.

It is a matter of finding the balance suitable for the individual.

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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 12:32:32 PM   
Bobkgin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

At around that same time,I did the EST training(a very intence seminar).From that I learned that looking inward and being mindful of who you are,helps w/ everthing you do.
I think it`s key to being content.


Absolutely.

Self-awareness replaces self-consciousness

Clarity replaces bias.

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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 12:47:22 PM   
FullCircle


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It all sounds a bit too clinical for me Bob. Having a list of things you require is great but don’t forget that people can also bring you things you weren’t looking for. If you are too focused on some perfect individual based on a list of attributes your become blind to the things you didn’t consider.

Putting a list of items you look for in a profile is also seen by many as being picky which is fine and totally the individual’s choice. Some though will think they can’t live up to your requirements and so pass you by. You meet people in the most unexpected ways and some of my best friends I found by chance. If I had been looking at a list while initially talking with them on the face of it they wouldn’t have ticked any of my boxes but friendships sometimes grow from nothing. Don’t over analyse human interaction or fall into the trap of thinking everyone is a threat to you. You can end up building towers around yourself that way and end up isolated.

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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 1:10:59 PM   
Bobkgin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

It all sounds a bit too clinical for me Bob. Having a list of things you require is great but don’t forget that people can also bring you things you weren’t looking for. If you are too focused on some perfect individual based on a list of attributes your become blind to the things you didn’t consider.

Putting a list of items you look for in a profile is also seen by many as being picky which is fine and totally the individual’s choice. Some though will think they can’t live up to your requirements and so pass you by. You meet people in the most unexpected ways and some of my best friends I found by chance. If I had been looking at a list while initially talking with them on the face of it they wouldn’t have ticked any of my boxes but friendships sometimes grow from nothing. Don’t over analyse human interaction or fall into the trap of thinking everyone is a threat to you. You can end up building towers around yourself that way and end up isolated.


I think Celeste was saying much the same thing.

And I agree, to a point.

But I think you and she are both overlooking the fact I was suggesting this to those who suffer from low self-esteem.

As such, I suspect their lists are going to be pretty modest.

I'm trying to encourage them to dream, and to hope again. One of the problems of low self-esteem is believing you deserve -anything- good.

A healthy encouragement to 'think big' seems to me what they need to prepare any kind of list at all.

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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 1:19:42 PM   
atendersoul


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you are correct in your writing about this subject and your time and effort to educate is excellent, appreciated.....
beware though....there are those out there that talk the talk, but do not walk the walk....that know well how to weigh their words to make someone believe.....con artists....manipulators.....
take your time, ask many many questions, the same questions but at different times or text but one the answer should be the same always to.....

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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 1:30:22 PM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
But I think you and she are both overlooking the fact I was suggesting this to those who suffer from low self-esteem.


I don’t really understand how it’s going to help people in that respect. Low self esteem comes from within. Having your written list rejected is going to be just as bad a blow as having what your offer rejected. For people with low self esteem I suggest they fix that independently of dating sites where knock backs are common place.

Also manipulation works both ways there are those that constantly try to garner sympathy and play the victim.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 8/21/2007 1:33:27 PM >


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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 1:41:54 PM   
Bobkgin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: atendersoul

you are correct in your writing about this subject and your time and effort to educate is excellent, appreciated.....
beware though....there are those out there that talk the talk, but do not walk the walk....that know well how to weigh their words to make someone believe.....con artists....manipulators.....
take your time, ask many many questions, the same questions but at different times or text but one the answer should be the same always to.....


Indeed.

And if they don't know what questions to ask, spend more time researching the subject before advertising.

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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 1:46:02 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: atendersoul

there are those out there that talk the talk, but do not walk the walk....



I study human behavior.  I may not say anything, but I watch and listen and keep track of a person's actions.  Part of this is personal; I have always been a people watcher.  Part of this is professional; it is my job to watch and consider what buttons I might need to use against them during our verbal scenarios.

When a person talks about how a person should be, but then displays by their actions many of those qualities they despise, I find it difficult to really believe their words.  The rubber does not meet the road when everything is hunky-dory; the rubber meets the road when emotions run high amid the noise and haste of life.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 1:46:17 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

But I think you and she are both overlooking the fact I was suggesting this to those who suffer from low self-esteem.



Actually, quite the opposite is true. I absolutely got that part. I answered that from the perspective of someone who made all the mistakes one makes in seeking a partner when one has low self-esteem as I was that exact person when I first jumped into the leather vats of BDSM. Our dreams are detailed beyond belief. Our lists are as long as your arm. Our hope is forever. It's only the nightmare of 'knowing' we can't have it that prevents us from trying to raise above where we are and remaining mired in the bog of our low self-esteem. Oh no, Bob. I got it. I really did.

quote:

I'm trying to encourage them to dream, and to hope again. One of the problems of low self-esteem is believing you deserve -anything- good.


People will low self-esteem already dream, Bob. It's all we have, after all. What we need is a healthy dose of reality and self-knowledge. The knowledge in ourselves that we are worth while. The reality to know it's all right to be flawed and that it's all right for others to be flawed as well. The reality to know that being flawed doesn't make us less than human, it makes us exactly human.

quote:

A healthy encouragement to 'think big' seems to me what they need to prepare any kind of list at all.


A healthy encouragement to 'think real' and 'think smart' and plain old fashioned 'think' is going to be of far more help than a 'dream' which may be so unrealistic it will never come true. What do you suppose happens to someone when they dream big and then once again that dream get dashed because it's unrealistic? That just drags you down, yet again, into the muck and makes it that much harder to rise above it and make another attempt to conquer the mountains in front of you. The problem, of course, is that what you are really doing is digging a hole and standing in it and that makes those mountains seem even bigger than they truly are because your perspective is skewed.

I'm a firm believer in baby steps and rather than tell someone to go run a marathon for which they aren't prepared, I suggest a pair of walking shoes and a trip around the block to start. Once you've gotten around it successfully, you can change into a pair of sneakers and maybe jog a bit. Eventually, you'll be running those marathons but you'll be in the kind of shape you need to be in order to complete the course successfully and not feel like a failure if you only go 20 of the 26 miles.

Celeste



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 1:50:10 PM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
But I think you and she are both overlooking the fact I was suggesting this to those who suffer from low self-esteem.


I don’t really understand how it’s going to help people in that respect. Low self esteem comes from within. Having your written list rejected is going to be just as bad a blow as having what your offer rejected. For people with low self esteem I suggest they fix that independently of dating sites where knock backs are common place.


I -certainly- agree with you there. I wasn't trying to open up that particular debate with this topic.

This topic was intended for those who are going to look, now, regardless.

Whether people with low self-esteem (and just how we define that term) should be pursuing bdsm is a discussion worthy of its own topic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Also manipulation works both ways there are those that constantly try to garner sympathy and play the victim.


Absolutely.

I keep mulling -that- topic over and over.

Just can't bring myself to writing it yet. There are far greater dangers for D/Ms than someone throwing a fake pity party and I'm not sure I want to put -that- knowledge in the hands of ne'er-do-well 'subbies' who are likely to read it.

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 1:57:00 PM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

But I think you and she are both overlooking the fact I was suggesting this to those who suffer from low self-esteem.



Actually, quite the opposite is true. I absolutely got that part. I answered that from the perspective of someone who made all the mistakes one makes in seeking a partner when one has low self-esteem as I was that exact person when I first jumped into the leather vats of BDSM. Our dreams are detailed beyond belief. Our lists are as long as your arm. Our hope is forever. It's only the nightmare of 'knowing' we can't have it that prevents us from trying to raise above where we are and remaining mired in the bog of our low self-esteem. Oh no, Bob. I got it. I really did.

quote:

I'm trying to encourage them to dream, and to hope again. One of the problems of low self-esteem is believing you deserve -anything- good.


People will low self-esteem already dream, Bob. It's all we have, after all. What we need is a healthy dose of reality and self-knowledge. The knowledge in ourselves that we are worth while. The reality to know it's all right to be flawed and that it's all right for others to be flawed as well. The reality to know that being flawed doesn't make us less than human, it makes us exactly human.

quote:

A healthy encouragement to 'think big' seems to me what they need to prepare any kind of list at all.


A healthy encouragement to 'think real' and 'think smart' and plain old fashioned 'think' is going to be of far more help than a 'dream' which may be so unrealistic it will never come true. What do you suppose happens to someone when they dream big and then once again that dream get dashed because it's unrealistic? That just drags you down, yet again, into the muck and makes it that much harder to rise above it and make another attempt to conquer the mountains in front of you. The problem, of course, is that what you are really doing is digging a hole and standing in it and that makes those mountains seem even bigger than they truly are because your perspective is skewed.

I'm a firm believer in baby steps and rather than tell someone to go run a marathon for which they aren't prepared, I suggest a pair of walking shoes and a trip around the block to start. Once you've gotten around it successfully, you can change into a pair of sneakers and maybe jog a bit. Eventually, you'll be running those marathons but you'll be in the kind of shape you need to be in order to complete the course successfully and not feel like a failure if you only go 20 of the 26 miles.

Celeste




I've met those with low self-esteem who manifested the symptoms I've described, so I know that type exists.

Till now I thought that's how it manifested itself, but I see in your words that there are other ways for it to manifest itself.

Perhaps it depends upon the degree of self-esteem held.

Or other factors.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Non-consensual Manipulation: A Survival Guide (O.O) - 8/21/2007 4:51:33 PM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I study human behavior.  I may not say anything, but I watch and listen and keep track of a person's actions.  Part of this is personal; I have always been a people watcher.  Part of this is professional; it is my job to watch and consider what buttons I might need to use against them during our verbal scenarios.

When a person talks about how a person should be, but then displays by their actions many of those qualities they despise, I find it difficult to really believe their words.  The rubber does not meet the road when everything is hunky-dory; the rubber meets the road when emotions run high amid the noise and haste of life.

Sinergy


There are those of us who have little patience for obnoxious strangers who manufacture drama out of thin air so as to run their little psych tests.

Some of us get all the drama we need out of real life and handle it quite well.

Context is everything.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 20
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