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total slavery with limits - 7/7/2005 12:15:52 PM

winger

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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i was wondering...is a slave allowed to present his limits to a mistress? If she denies these limits, is the slave without recourse?

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/7/2005 12:19:48 PM

EmeraldSlave2

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Allowed to present them yes. But there's no promise they would be accepted.

Recourse? No, but what sort of recourse would you want?

(in reply to winger)

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/7/2005 12:41:13 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
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Of course! Limits should always be a part of the discussion before anyone even enters into a relationship.
But if you wish to be a slave, then you are well advised to make sure you know the person as well as you can, trust that person, and make sure your limits, as well as your basic values, are the same as the Dominant's limits and the Dominant's basic values.
If a boy has hard limits that I can't live without, I will not go any further. If I have hard limits a boy can't live without, then he should go no further.
Some people are more casual and will discuss certain things or re-negotiate, even if it is an M/s trelationship, but you should not rely on that. Some things may be re-negotiable, and some things may not. So about recourse? Ending the relationship. Since this is not preferable, it is best to do the homework up front.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 7/7/2005 12:44:19 PM >

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They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/7/2005 12:46:26 PM

FelinePersuasion

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The general concensus is that slaves have no limits xcept what the mistress allows. I know it's diffrent from person to person. So check carefully do your homework make sure their idea's match yours. If they aren't don't go on with that one mistress.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/7/2005 1:04:24 PM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

Of course! Limits should always be a part of the discussion before anyone even enters into a relationship.
But if you wish to be a slave, then you are well advised to make sure you know the person as well as you can, trust that person, and make sure your limits, as well as your basic values, are the same as the Dominant's limits and the Dominant's basic values.
If a boy has hard limits that I can't live without, I will not go any further. If I have hard limits a boy can't live without, then he should go no further.
Some people are more casual and will discuss certain things or re-negotiate, even if it is an M/s trelationship, but you should not rely on that. Some things may be re-negotiable, and some things may not. So about recourse? Ending the relationship. Since this is not preferable, it is best to do the homework up front.

yeah. what She said.!

the wolf

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/7/2005 3:13:19 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
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The way I look at it, limits "shouldn't" be a problem, because the people in the relationship should have the same ones.

I use the quotes because I am describing the kind of relationship that appeals to me, personally.

Limits, to me, are things I believe to be morally wrong or physically damaging. To me, my limits are my moral/ethical/self preservational foundation. I think that a in relationship that succeeds, those limits are the same between all partners.

I can say I have no limits with my partner, because we share a moral structure, and have no desire to cause physical harm (actual harm) to each other.

So, I guess I don't think it's a right to have limits, so much as an obligation to be clear about your standpoint. I don't think we're obligated to compromise our morality, but I think that it's very very good to know that these things match -before- becoming owner and owned.

Also, re: recourse.
If someone won't accept your limits, you don't have to be with them. If they aren't ok with what you won't do, there isn't anything that requires you stay, or start a realtionship. So...recourse? Leave or don't be with them.

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/7/2005 8:53:40 PM

Euryanx

Posts: 96
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA
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Whatever happened to "safe words"?

Everyone has limits. And they should be respected. When I was about 22 and my Mistress took me to a BDSM club in Manhattan called the Vault, she wanted to strip me down and beat my ass on stage in front of 100 people. I pretty much freaked out, and used our safe word. That was just beyond what I wanted to do. Public humiliation is NOT what I'm into. My Mistress wasn't happy, but she respected my limits (and made me pay for it when we got home, but that was okay).

The only other time i used our safe word with her was when she wanted me to drink a glass of her piss. Yuk!! Fortunately she respected my wishes that time as well. Thank God.

I don't want anyone using me as their toilet. I don't want anyone tattooing my body. Okay, call me a horrible sub, but if someone cannot respect my limits, I don't see the relationship going anywhere.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/7/2005 9:04:09 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
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I don't, personally, use a safeword with my partner.

But that's because we've been together a decent amount of time and have the same limit set.

~shrug~

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/7/2005 9:26:34 PM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Euryanx

Whatever happened to "safe words"?

Everyone has limits. And they should be respected. When I was about 22 and my Mistress took me to a BDSM club in Manhattan called the Vault, she wanted to strip me down and beat my ass on stage in front of 100 people. I pretty much freaked out, and used our safe word. That was just beyond what I wanted to do. Public humiliation is NOT what I'm into. My Mistress wasn't happy, but she respected my limits (and made me pay for it when we got home, but that was okay).

The only other time i used our safe word with her was when she wanted me to drink a glass of her piss. Yuk!! Fortunately she respected my wishes that time as well. Thank God.

I don't want anyone using me as their toilet. I don't want anyone tattooing my body. Okay, call me a horrible sub, but if someone cannot respect my limits, I don't see the relationship going anywhere.

yeah see? all that is about the play stuff. and i have not done that yet.
still a play-virgin. i have no idea what it is about yet.
i have only done service......period. all the dirty lil clean up jobs.
always been curious about that play stuff. just haven't been there.
it's why i laugh when someone asks about limits. i have none coz i don't play. lol

k
later

the wolf

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/7/2005 10:00:52 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Euryanx

Whatever happened to "safe words"?

Everyone has limits. And they should be respected. When I was about 22 and my Mistress took me to a BDSM club in Manhattan called the Vault, she wanted to strip me down and beat my ass on stage in front of 100 people. I pretty much freaked out, and used our safe word. That was just beyond what I wanted to do. Public humiliation is NOT what I'm into. My Mistress wasn't happy, but she respected my limits (and made me pay for it when we got home, but that was okay).

The only other time i used our safe word with her was when she wanted me to drink a glass of her piss. Yuk!! Fortunately she respected my wishes that time as well. Thank God.

I don't want anyone using me as their toilet. I don't want anyone tattooing my body. Okay, call me a horrible sub, but if someone cannot respect my limits, I don't see the relationship going anywhere.

People who play together casually may choose to use safewords. In fact, they probably should. Some D/s and M/s relationships incorporate safe words. But what you have described, Euryanx, is exactly what we have been discussing. If you had an ongoing relationship with this Lady, why wasn't this discussed prior to entering into the relationship?
I need to know what a boy's hard limits are. I would have already known that these were hard limits, and I would have respected them (or we wouldn't be together in the first place!) so you would not have needed to use your safeword. Because these incidents wouldn't have occurred in the first place.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to Euryanx)

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/8/2005 10:44:42 PM

OralPassions

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/25/2005
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I like the information I had read about the difference between submissive and slave

Written by F.R.R. Mallory - also known as Mistress Steel

The SLAVE ~

The slave is beyond the last level of the submissive. The slave vacates limits. To be a slave is to offer of self fully and without reservation. From my perspective very few individuals fall into this category. Those that do, that I know personally are generally with their Dominant for a very long period of time. Trust has been long ago established, limits and range discovered and a relationship of personal strength has emerged which allows the submissive to transcend to this level. This is a level without safewords, without limits. The slave lives with their Dominant on a full time basis and may or may not have a life external of serving their mate. The slave generally selects a Dominant with parallel limits. By this I mean that the final action of trust is the vacating of set limits. In order to do this the individual must fundamentally know that their partner shares the same 'natural' or 'inviolate' limits as they do. A Dominant has limits just like a submissive. That which falls within their natural range and desire is their arena.

Many people use the term 'slave' interchangeably with submissive. I myself enjoy calling my sub's 'slaves' because it thrills them. However, I know in truth that they are not slaves, they fall within the field of the submissive. A submissive without choice (limit's - safewords) becomes a slave. They have passed that final threshold of personal trust.

One final thing to really confuse things. I have a category which I call the 'Authentic Submissive', I also call these persons 'full out or true Submissives'. This is the submissive who is auto responsive. When in top space they can and may appear to be at any level of the submissive listed above. Upon entering sub-space they lose the ability to do anything but obey. This is an automatic response. They are unable to control the response. It has been my lifelong opinion that these submissives are the 'natural slaves', they have a capacity and range far exceeding the non-auto-responsive submissive. By the way, when I find one of these quite rare authentic submissives, I am instinctively very protective of them. They are the most vulnerable members of this community.

_____________________________________________________

I know I believe myself to be of the natural submissive and seek to aspire a relationship where I am a true slave. That level of trust is what I truely seek to establish and when attained believe I would do anything for my Mistress. Even if at the start of our relationship there were Hard Limits my true nature would submit to whatever my Mistress desired when that unequivocal trust is reached over time. Which probably takes years to attain.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/9/2005 2:56:56 PM

Euryanx

Posts: 96
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
People who play together casually may choose to use safewords. In fact, they probably should. Some D/s and M/s relationships incorporate safe words. But what you have described, Euryanx, is exactly what we have been discussing. If you had an ongoing relationship with this Lady, why wasn't this discussed prior to entering into the relationship?
I need to know what a boy's hard limits are. I would have already known that these were hard limits, and I would have respected them (or we wouldn't be together in the first place!) so you would not have needed to use your safeword. Because these incidents wouldn't have occurred in the first place.

Goddess, I understand what you are saying, and in the 2 years that I was with this Mistress I only used our safe word the 2 times that I mentioned above. The first was an out of the ordinary situation where we were at a BDSM club. On the drive there she told me what she wanted to do - but when confronted with the situation of being stripped down and beaten in front of a crowd - because it was all new to me, I basically lost my nerve. I know, I know, I probably should have trusted her and just went with it, but the whole scene was so beyond me at that point in my life it freaked me out.

The other situation i mentioned, Her trying to get me to drink a glass of her pee, occurred one night early on in the relationship when she had me in bondage and was testing my limits. She told me she wanted me to do it as an act of complete submission to her. I told her if i did it - I would more than likely vomit - that was just my physical reaction. This was NOT something we had ever discussed previously, so I was shocked and totally repulsed by it.

But like I said, those were the only two times in two years. Otherwise I was completely compliant with her wishes. Was I bad sub? Was she a bad Domme? I don't think so. I think we were just two people getting to know each, testing each other's boundaries.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/9/2005 3:18:32 PM

littlespike

Posts: 80
Joined: 5/21/2005
From: Austin
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I have a relationship with a lovingly dominant lady and we often talk about limits. The only real limit that i have is the pain encountered during rougher play. i love the Mistress & slave relationship that i have with her.

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/13/2005 2:14:55 PM

softandshy

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Well spoken GoddessDustyGold. That is almost exactly how i feel about the topic. :)

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RE: total slavery with limits - 7/13/2005 7:21:23 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

Of course! Limits should always be a part of the discussion before anyone even enters into a relationship.
But if you wish to be a slave, then you are well advised to make sure you know the person as well as you can, trust that person, and make sure your limits, as well as your basic values, are the same as the Dominant's limits and the Dominant's basic values.
If a boy has hard limits that I can't live without, I will not go any further. If I have hard limits a boy can't live without, then he should go no further.
Some people are more casual and will discuss certain things or re-negotiate, even if it is an M/s trelationship, but you should not rely on that. Some things may be re-negotiable, and some things may not. So about recourse? Ending the relationship. Since this is not preferable, it is best to do the homework up front.

I couldn't agree more. It's really all about effective communication prior to entering a relationship, to ensure that it's a reasonable match to begin with. If the hard-limits aren't acceptable, why waste each other's time in the first place?

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

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