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negotiation - 7/7/2005 4:23:00 PM   
softandshy


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		Hello. This post is credited to sub4hire. If both subs/slaves and Dominants could respond, please, it would really help in building a complete picture. How do you approach negotiating a new D/s relationship? What questions do you ask, or do you expect to be asked? How does timing factor in? Are there items you expect but do not feel a need to reveal? How do your expectations change based on whether the other person is a sub, a slave, or a dominant? Please explain the process for you, and why you do things as you do.

Thank you.
ss

Does that cover things, Gloria?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 4:31:05 PM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		I read over the post a few times but I want to make sure about this...

You are speaking of a D/s relationship in the sense of one that would be long-term if not permanent, live-in, 24/7 or in the sense of a D/s relationship primarily about physical interaction?

I want to clarify this because I know an answer could be different depending upon the definition of the type of relationship you are asking about.

MstrssPassion

(in reply to softandshy)
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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 5:10:07 PM   
LordBennett


Posts: 24
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline 		You asked "Are there items you expect"/ask but do not feel a need to reveal?" or receive an answer. The most common one would be about other partners and details. Sure the more detailed a sub can be the better but some do not feel comfortable being detailed with their answers. The questions could be about sex or D/s activity. And it is not always the sub who holds back, the Dominant might also. In both cases they want to be more secure in the relationship before they open up and tell all. Besides some things are none of the partner's business, especially if the partner is asking about the past.

(in reply to MstrssPassion)
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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 5:24:19 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

How do you approach negotiating a new D/s relationship? What questions do you ask, or do you expect to be asked? How does timing factor in? Are there items you expect but do not feel a need to reveal? How do your expectations change based on whether the other person is a sub, a slave, or a dominant?




I made a list of absolute needs and wants. Absolutes were simpler. Love, trust, integrity, bondage. Dominance.
Needs were the things I liked...wax, fire so on and so forth.
I interviewed perspective dominants the way I would an employee. Listened to them. Asked a whole lot of questions and again listened very carefully. Then re-worded my same questions and asked them again to be sure I got the same answers. Integrity to me is what the selling factor was. If you will lie about a small thing you will lie about something larger if it will benefit you.
Looks mattered to a small extent so I'd ask about them. Looks fail us all as we age. You can't expect to get far with them. Arrogance is ugly, so I looked for someone humble.
I was 100% honest on all questions asked of me and I expected the same in return.
So, I'd ask what a normal scene would be like.
What are your interests?
What is your number one activity you'd like, if you could play daily what would it be?
What are you looking for in a relationship? We had to mesh after all.
What are your vanilla interests? If you want to last you must have some of the same interests in the vanilla world, we cannot play 24 hours a day.
Age, location.

It's been a long time since I negotiated with anyone so I'm just trying to think of things that were important to me at the time.
I was looking for a dominant. I identify with being a submissive. Yet, most I negotiated with saw me as a slave. Those people were eliminated then and there. My future dom had to respect me the way I saw me.

The way I felt I was 100% in charge of the relationship until submission. Because I had to feel 100% comfortable giving my entire life to another individual. Once we could both come to an agreement things changed. I put my life in his hands. If he were to tell me not to work today I would not work. I have that amount of trust in him.
Cyber sex never exactly caught my eye. Yet since I was seeking online I thought it was a valuable tool. People fantasize here. If they have the chance to live out their fantasies they will. Cyber sex is their fantasies. It is almost like a window into their soul. You know if what they are wanting is going to turn you on. If it is way beyond your limits you know it is not going to work out.
As a female I always had a line of men to negotiate with. I don't know what it is like for a man. To me it was no issue at all disposing of many at any given time because they weren't quite right for me.

Anyway, that's what I have off the top of my head. I'm sure I will think of other stuff to add later on.




(in reply to softandshy)
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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 5:50:06 PM   
mossy


Posts: 189
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline 		Sometimes i find Dominants are more willing to answer my questions than Masters are. But not always. The negotiation process tells a lot about the other person. If i feel pushed, proded and rushed chances are i'm not going to feel to comfortable in a relationship with that person. Yet if i'm completely relaxed and at ease with anything i feel like asking, and what they ask me, then maybe we'll be comfortable in D/s. Someone asked to see my Papers!
Yes i remember that, and for a second i felt like a puppy! lol. Goes to show how out of the loop i was, they had to explain.....
There has to be cooperation for me on the other Persons part, Master or Dominant. i cannot be the only one sharing about myself. i need His picture, and His information too that's just me though.



in response: to soft and shy

(in reply to LordBennett)
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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 5:55:32 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		What I like most in a person is that they know who they are and what they want. I perfer people who finish what they start. I'll ask question as "is this what you want?" "how bad do you want it?" "Where do you want it?" And end it with "oh you'll be getting it alright along with a few supprises."

I like confidence and having similar interest. There's no real protocal that I go by in negotiations. After all I say who I am and I want as well and if they feel they can't deal with it, then it may be best to not start at all. But in some cases, I've been able to start a little slower than I like.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to softandshy)
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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 6:03:32 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		With the relationship with the Owner, there was never any negotiation. We learned about eachother, but from the start I either had to accept his limits and expectations, or not progress into a relationship with him.

When it comes to a play scene with someone, generally we have an idea of what type of play we want to do (caning, violet wand, suspension, etc) and going on that type of play we discuss thresholds of pain, tolerances, physical issues to be concerned about and what headspace we want to go to.

When it comes to a relationship like I have with my Boston partner or my boyfriend, negotiation is an ever flowing conversation. We explore new territory together, we try things out on eachother, we can say "hey I'm not up for that today, I can only go this far" or "Keep that up right there."

(in reply to softandshy)
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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 6:23:47 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Someone asked to see my Papers!


Just have to ask, what are papers? Never heard of that before.

(in reply to mossy)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 7:09:34 PM   
LaMspeach


Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

With the relationship with the Owner, there was never any negotiation. We learned about eachother, but from the start I either had to accept his limits and expectations, or not progress into a relationship with him.



This rings true for the relationship i have with my Master as well. There was never any negotiations. We slowly started to learn about each other, by talking naturally, truly listening to what the other was saying and being TOTALLY HONEST with each other. It was up to me to decided if i could accept Him just the ways He was or choose to not begin a relationship with Him. It wasn't only his choice to have the relationship start this way but mine as well. I didn't want to negotiations because i didn't want that much control in my D/s relationship, so i looked for someone with similar wants and needs. Before i could find that one with similar wants and needs i had to take the time to learn about myself and learn to be totally honest, not only with my Master but with myself as well. By taking the time to learn abut myself i knew that my need to please my Master out weighted my need for limits, so yet, another reason to find one with similar wants and needs.

I hope this helps. Sorry if i rambled.


_____________________________

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"



(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 7:12:49 PM   
softandshy


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		In response to MstrssPassion:

i was thinking of a long term relationship with either very frequent contact, or live-in; however, there will of course also be negotiation for short term or single scenes as well. It would be helpful to understand the negotiation involved in both, i think. So perhaps you could specify which your response alludes to.

Thank you.
ss

(in reply to MstrssPassion)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 7:25:06 PM   
softandshy


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline 		i didn't see you as rambling peach.

Actually, i'd consider the period before you started the relationship as a form of prolonged negotiation. You were each deciding if you were willing to live with the other, whether or not you had "similar wants and needs", even if you came to believe that "[your] need to please [your] master outweighed [your] need for limits." i'd consider it negotiation because at that point you still had the opportunity to opt out without serious risk. Of course, that's only my take on things. :)

This is very much like how i approach the issue also actually. :) i reserve the right to leave while studying issues like compatibility until i've formally committed, or accepted a collar, then i will submit fully. The only exception to that would be if there was a radical, permanent change in the Dominant that was a direct threat to my continued wellbeing, either mental or physical.

< Message edited by softandshy -- 7/7/2005 7:27:10 PM >

(in reply to LaMspeach)
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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 7:54:20 PM   
dominmd


Posts: 474
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		In my previous relationships neither my grilfriends or I never really negotiated (we were not really out or serious). There was a lot of communication going on, verbal, eye contact, etc during play. Each knew the limits of the other just with a few question. What do you want tonight? Where do you want it? How hard and how long? (not talking penetration here, well depends on my dirty min), anyway STOP was the definite safe word. Other things were: try this, or go here, or do this for a little longer.

Having said this, I believe that any scene needs the basics I just mentioned. Before I will ever scene with a sub or even sub to another dom to learn, there will be long conversations and a lot of the get to know you chit chat that in my mind, must take place. This may bore some people, but if you start yawning during a face to face, your chances for play are getting slim.

(in reply to softandshy)
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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 8:10:37 PM   
Gemeni


Posts: 255
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		First I figure out if I like them as a *person*.

Everything else is contingent on that.

(in reply to dominmd)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 8:25:02 PM   
mossy


Posts: 189
Joined: 2/21/2005
Status: offline
i definately made an error when called what i was explaining the "negotiation process."
In finding out about each other, our likes and dislikes, that is not negotiation. my apologies. When i was asked for my "papers" the Dominant was speaking of my health records.
(std)

(in reply to dominmd)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 8:28:07 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Please explain the process for you, and why you do things as you do.

As soon as this slave discovered that she was not alone in her desires and way of thinking, she promptly wrote up an ad and posted it with alt, limiting her search to a 100 mile radius. first date with a potential "Dom" in this slave's remote area went ok, but he felt just like another vanilla date---within 1 week and after the second date, he's the same as the nilla's at the singles bars, wanting nothing more than kinky sex. since this slave wanted to go a bit, if not a whole lot, deeper than that he stops returning calls. this slave did not give up, however, cancelled the alt ad and posted a new, direct and concise one on a site called BDSM personals---opened up the mileage to 200 miles and got 50 responses in the first week. went through them all very carefully and picked 10 semi-finalists, then down to the top 3. this slave's number one pick seemed just too good to be true, a perfect match through the computer, so she promptly agreed to talk with Him on the phone--that voice stirred something deep within and this slave just had to meet Him! He insisted He was not interested in a long distance or online relationship and wanted very much to meet. this slave shared that desire and agreed to meet if for nothing more than a Firestone Pale Ale, pretzels with mustard and conversation! this man, this Dom would turn out to be the Master that this slave could only fantasize about previously. He has given His slave her first BDSM experience, and it started the moment we were first alone together and He instructed this slave to take off all clothes, interlock her hands behind her neck and turn slowly for Him. after that turn, there has been no turning back, no regrets, and no need to negotiate anything with anyone ever again.

(in reply to softandshy)
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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 8:29:08 PM   
lonewolf05


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softandshy

Hello. This post is credited to sub4hire. If both subs/slaves and Dominants could respond, please, it would really help in building a complete picture. How do you approach negotiating a new D/s relationship? What questions do you ask, or do you expect to be asked? How does timing factor in? Are there items you expect but do not feel a need to reveal? How do your expectations change based on whether the other person is a sub, a slave, or a dominant? Please explain the process for you, and why you do things as you do.

Thank you.
ss

Does that cover things, Gloria?

----------------------------------
negotiate?
do you really really want ME to answer? i got $20 says ya don't!
what IS this? other than MAYBE some folks asking about the romance lovey dovey, other than folks asking about sex and play?
what IS there TO negotiate ON?
so FAR,........i am TOLD........here is what i offer as a mistress. take it or go away.
and all "I" offer is merely........service.
She is Mistress.......i am a serving slave.
pretty clear cut i'd say.
at LEAST it has been SO far!

y'okay.

i'm done.
the wolf

----------------
update here.............likes n dislikes? again i am sorry. what do MY likes n dislikes have to do with how i serve meals or drinks or mow the yard or whatever else i have to do?
i fail to grasp this concept. thanks again.
7/16/05 2:30am central


< Message edited by lonewolf05 -- 7/16/2005 12:27:50 AM >

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"


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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 8:43:10 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I don't negotiate. If I was up for a negotiation, I might as well accept a vanilla marriage proposal.
That said, I am also not inflexible on various things. If I know something is a hard limit, and it doesn't bother Me, it isn't a need of Mine, I will respect that. If it is a need, then I won't go further in the relationship, with the exception of the idea that a need might be met by another boy, and I would not need to have that need met by the one who can't handle that particular activity.
I spend the time getting to know someone, and I hope they are trying to get to know Me. I get a lot of "wanting to be a slave" or "am a slave" or "wish to serve you", but it often breaks down because we are not on the same page as to what slave means, or what service entails.
I also have alot of boys who want to see My contract. And that I will not do that. If they have to see a contract right off the bat without taking any time to get to know Me and get a feel for who I am and how I view things, then I am not interested. And contracts are flexible. The same one does not necessarily apply to all boys. Some have family, or considerations have to be included for school or work, or their might be health issues to be included. In those areas I am flexible. Others would be happy to cut themselves off from all society if I would permit that. (I don't.)
I had a boy who contacted Me and said he had been emailing Me about a year ago, and it was all positive. Now he was back in the race (so to speak) and he wanted to re-open things with Me. I did not remember this boy from Adam. But I did re-open the exploration. As we conversed it turned out that he didn't mind if I was Poly, but he lived in another town (about 2 hours away) and he needed to have the freedom to do whatever he wished when he was not with Me (which would be most of the time, BTW!) he said he would only be willing to sign a contract for a monogamous relationship. When asked to define mongamous, he stated that, for him, this term meant everything from sleeping in the same bed, to giving or receiving a spanking. I told him this would not be acceptable to Me. I expected a boy to have only one Mistress, and only one relationship. When he said "but that's not fair", I replied "Who told you D/s was fair?"
Maybe that seems harsh, but I was not about to take on a boy who wanted to date vanilla, and even see other Dominants on the side, as long as I was able to on My end. We ended our exploration as I was now aware that this boy wanted to have his cake and eat it too. Unless I was willing to play by his rules, he did not want to play at all.
No, I do not negotiate.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 7/7/2005 8:49:03 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


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RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 9:12:55 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

When i was asked for my "papers" the Dominant was speaking of my health records.
(std)


I was thinking maybe it was a birth certificate...I dunno...I probably would have asked him if he also had papers or he was hatched?

(in reply to mossy)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: negotiation - 7/7/2005 9:39:59 PM   
Mani2005


Posts: 4
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline 		No negotiations. All there is, for me, is to be perfectly clear as to who I am. Take it or leave it.

(in reply to softandshy)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: negotiation - 7/9/2005 3:20:58 AM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

This rings true for the relationship i have with my Master as well. There was never any negotiations. We slowly started to learn about each other, by talking naturally, truly listening to what the other was saying and being TOTALLY HONEST with each other. It was up to me to decided if i could accept Him just the ways He was or choose to not begin a relationship with Him. It wasn't only his choice to have the relationship start this way but mine as well. I didn't want to negotiations because i didn't want that much control in my D/s relationship, so i looked for someone with similar wants and needs. Before i could find that one with similar wants and needs i had to take the time to learn about myself and learn to be totally honest, not only with my Master but with myself as well. By taking the time to learn abut myself i knew that my need to please my Master out weighted my need for limits, so yet, another reason to find one with similar wants and needs.

You did not ramble LaMspeach and said it well.

I watched for similar needs, wants, and beliefs in life in general and not just in wiitwd. I wanted a relationship that would encompass all aspects of life. It was, and remains, extremely important for Me to know who I am and what I both need and want from My life. If I know that then I can communicate those things to My submissive and make sure they are filled. So self-knowledge and honesty are extremely high on the list of what I look for. If the submissive cannot be honest or does not know himself well then I will not become involved other then casually. I do not negotiate the big stuff in the relationship...only the little things (like when and where). For casual play partners though I negotiate for the elements in that particular scene (always providing the submissive has made it that far in the evaluation process).

With Mine there was no 'formal' period of negotiation but we did take 2 years getting to know each other. Part of that time was spent living together for a couple of months so we had a very good idea of what our commitment would mean and how the relationship dynamics would play out.

Gentle Lady

_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to LaMspeach)
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