"Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (Full Version)

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Bobkgin -> "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 4:52:11 AM)

How do you avoid the manifestations of this truism?




mnottertail -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 4:53:54 AM)

I was absolutely corrupted before I came into power, so avoided the issue altogether.

Ron




seeksfemslave -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 5:53:10 AM)

Its not a truism at all IMO.
Nobody has ever had absolute power so that side of it is untested and not all are corrupted by power or influence.




Rule -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 6:00:45 AM)

It is rather that those who have the potential for evil are driven to acquire power but lack the wisdom and caring to apply that power constructively. So to meet this deficiency they are required to find one wise and one caring person to counsel them and to complement them.




Steelriven -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 6:07:58 AM)

I don't believe in such a thing as Absolute Power. In fact I'm not sure if I believe in anthing 100% accept life, death, taxes and Mr. Einstine's theory of matter and engery. I do have theories.

I'm human, I live breath, think and feel. I'm not meant to know all the anwsers, I don't think anyone is. However, if you have a faith I personally will not judge it. It's part of what makes you, you. I'll discuss, and philosiphize (if you can read through my errors. hehe) but I'll not say a deffinant, "No, you're wrong."




Steelriven -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 6:12:04 AM)

So you're saying overall people who seek power and use it unwisely are evil?

And if in recognizing one's evil, wouldn't the wise one saught not be wise if they fed into them?

Not aruging here, I love discussions like this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

It is rather that those who have the potential for evil are driven to acquire power but lack the wisdom and caring to apply that power constructively. So to meet this deficiency they are required to find one wise and one caring person to counsel them and to complement them.




Rule -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 6:24:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelriven
So you're saying overall people who seek power and use it unwisely are evil?

I did not say that rectangles are squares, but I did say that squares are rectangles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelriven
And if in recognizing one's evil, wouldn't the wise one sought not be wise if they fed into them?

Evil can be extremely useful and beneficient. It does require a handler, though.




Owner59 -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 6:32:23 AM)

 There are plenty of examples of absolute power.Hussein,Amin,Papa Doc Duvalier,Stalin,Hilter,Mussolini.

The point of the phrase, is a dire warning to all people and their leaders.It`s why there are 3 separate,co-equal (till bush got in)branches of government.

Any consentration of power beyond that,and you get a george bush jr. or a tin pot dictator.




Sinergy -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 6:38:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

So to meet this deficiency they are required to find one wise and one caring person to counsel them and to complement them.



One ring to rule them
One ring to find them
One ring to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.
                              J.R.R. Tolkein.

While the idea of finding a benevolent dictator has a lot of merit, it has not really been proven workable in many instances historically.  There are a variety of different reasons depending on the individual context.

As Winston Churchill observed "Democracy is the worst form of government, excepting all others."

Or Mohandas K. Gandhi who said something to the effect that "Democracy is a nice idea, if it is ever tried."

Sinergy




pahunkboy -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 7:27:11 AM)

Absolute power is an illusion; possibly a delusion.


Take the prez of the US. Leader of the "free world"- pick any recent prez- they are surrounded by analysts that tell them a rosey non truth.  ad nuesium.

You can have absolute power over monir items such as the color of your house. but control of the planet- is delusional- no matter how much spin you put on it.  mankind inherently has free will- so this is why.  if you absolute power over another being that person views your rules as the path of least resistence. hence- again- an illusion.

so its all in the way you frame your perception.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 7:50:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I was absolutely corrupted before I came into power, so avoided the issue altogether.

Ron

LOL I swear that is exactly what I was going to say.




Alumbrado -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 10:46:19 AM)

quote:

ab·so·lute  /ˈæb[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]səˌlut, ˌæb[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]səˈlut/ [ab-suh-loot, ab-suh-loot]
–adjective



unrestrained or unlimited by a constitution, counterbalancing group, etc., in the exercise of governmental power, esp. when arbitrary or despotic: an absolute monarch.


quote:

  pow·er /ˈpaʊ[image]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png[/image]ər/ [pou-er] 
–noun



the possession of control or command over others; authority; ascendancy: 




political ascendancy or control in the government of a country, state, etc

http://dictionary.reference.com/

Every person on this planet is born with a need for power over others. Some temper that as part of the maturation process, some become addicted to it. For the power junkies, there is never enough.




BitaTruble -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 10:56:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

How do you avoid the manifestations of this truism?



Bob,

This is just a suggestion and I do understand why you are posting all your questions to this forum, but the statement in the subject line will garner much different responses if it's put into the general bdsm discussion form within the context of M/s relationships. As it stands, in this forum, it's likely to turn into a political thread. Now, if that was your intent, it's all well and good, but if you'll reconsider your stance on posting everything into off-topic, I believe you'll garner more actual BDSM discussion.

I tend to avoid political discussions unless I'm on my NPR board, but would be happy to discuss the subject line within the context of M/s relationships and believe the topic would do well, upstairs, with those parameters.

Celeste





Bobkgin -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 11:05:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

How do you avoid the manifestations of this truism?



Bob,

This is just a suggestion and I do understand why you are posting all your questions to this forum, but the statement in the subject line will garner much different responses if it's put into the general bdsm discussion form within the context of M/s relationships. As it stands, in this forum, it's likely to turn into a political thread. Now, if that was your intent, it's all well and good, but if you'll reconsider your stance on posting everything into off-topic, I believe you'll garner more actual BDSM discussion.

I tend to avoid political discussions unless I'm on my NPR board, but would be happy to discuss the subject line within the context of M/s relationships and believe the topic would do well, upstairs, with those parameters.

Celeste


I appreciate your advice, Celeste, but I doubt the mods will cooperate.

I tried moving the "Outdoor Bondage" post up there, and they deleted it there because it was a duplicate of what was here.

Of course, they won't move it from here to there, but are happy to move other bdsm threads I started there down here.

Detecting a pattern?

Apparently I've been branded the "off-topic" guy and I doubt anything I post, no matter how bdsm-relevant, is going to be allowed outside of the "Off-Topic" forum.

Get lemons, make lemonade.

[8|]




CuriousLord -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 11:19:52 AM)

People tend to act as they will to fulfill their own ends as they see fit.  (There is an obnixiously common misconception that helping others isn't selfish.  One who has this notion may have to suspend it for the sake of understanding this argument.)  When one is beyond reproach of others, not needing their resources, acceptance, nor even the assurance that they don't be assaulted by them in the night, lessly observed traits may appear as previously insignificant selfish points become more important to the individual than anything that another could do.

I'd suggest, for analogy, one consider his own treatment of insects, or even unicelluar creatures.  You do not care for them, do you?  Is their existence often meaningful to you?  Do you even care about how many you kill when you drive the car, or, in the case of some of the smallest creatures, kill when you move about?  Suddenly, though, do you not become aware of them when they can hurt you?  (HIV, scorpians, black widows, etc.)

To a far larger degree than insects, we empathize with other human being as a form of life, similar to ourself, and, therefore, in a way, part of ourself.  The selfish urge to see ourselves in others is diminished when we can seperate ourselves from others in observing more contrasts.  This is a minor factor, though, compared to the fact that one with power is no longer subject to the threats of others; he needn't be concerned with their reactions.

A mitigating point to all of this is that one who has considered himself one of others, and subject to them, during his formative years is liable to retain this notion as part of his personality.  Such an individual, which one might coin "a moral" person, could attain absolute power and still act with regard for others, or, this is to say, without great corruption.


Edit:  This was strongly abridged due to time constraints.  (One may notice the start of points or examples which lack elaboration.)  But there is one great example I did want to include.  Abortion.  Look at the stances on it.

People are kept in line by two forces: wanting to help the part of themselves that they see in others, wanting to help themself (to include the parts that they may see in others) by avoiding wrath, including that of by others.

The unborn are marvelous examples of the contrast between these two aspects.  You see, one group sees themselves in the unborn- they see them as human, wishes to protect them (pro-life).  (It is important to understand that the proper pro-life argument is not that fetuses are as adult humans, but surficiently like adult humans to recognize them similarily.)  However, others do not to such a degree.  Here, you have the pro-choice camp.  Some of them see such a lack of themselves in the fetuses that they completely do not care.  Others see a bit, and think that abortion is a tradgety, but not enough of one to push aside the interests of those who are more closely resembled to them.

Here, you have the line.  I love this example since, normally, many people can come together and agree on which side of the line to be on- in this case, though, there's a fair split.  And, wrath isn't an issue.

You see, two things are in play: empathy for self and wishing to avoid wrath.  Fetuses offer no wrath.  So, when it comes down to it, ignoring the opinions of other adults, one considers the level of empathy.  Should they be corrupt (such as mentioned in a recent thread where Indian familes did not care for female fetuses), they would opt in their own, personal interests.  Should they not be corrupt, they will opt in deference to the rights of the other- the other who is defenseless.

Fetuses are defenseless.  How would you treat one?  A good start at examining one's own corruption.




Cuckme4Life -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 11:32:46 AM)

i always wanted to be a malevolent dictator for a small Carribean Island, Absolutely!!  Absolute power corrupt me please.




ModeratorEleven -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 11:34:41 AM)

Duplicating an existing thread is not the same as moving it.  The former is not allowed in these forums which is why your repost was removed.  Users don't have the ability to move a thread from one forum to another, but we will move them when asked, if it's appropriate to do so.

Next time,  just ask.

XI





Bobkgin -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 11:45:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ModeratorEleven

Duplicating an existing thread is not the same as moving it.  The former is not allowed in these forums which is why your repost was removed.  Users don't have the ability to move a thread from one forum to another, but we will move them when asked, if it's appropriate to do so.

Next time,  just ask.

XI




I don't recall asking for my bdsm-related threads to be moved into the Off-Topic forum.

Thus it follows I need not ask for bdsm-related threads to be moved out of the Off-Topic forum.

Ask you for assistance? (o.O)

Rather have my beard trimmed with a chain-saw, if its all the same to you.

"power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"

I guess after 25+ years as a master I'm just not "twue" enough for the mods of collarchat.




Alumbrado -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 11:56:06 AM)

Awww, look everyone... a 'Twue victim'.

When is  your next performance?




ModeratorEleven -> RE: "Power corrupts, Absolute Power corrupts absolutely" (O.O) (8/23/2007 11:58:24 AM)

If threads were moved to the off-topic forum, it's because they were not BDSM related.  Please read the Section Guidelines post in the General BDSM forum for more information on that matter.  Try not to take it personally, we move threads all the time, no matter how "twue" the poster might be or how badly his beard needs trimming.

XI




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