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American Foriegn Policy, Freedom in a Republic Democracy - 8/23/2007 3:43:03 PM

Real0ne

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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3739500579629840148&hl=en

I am going to reserve comment for now on this.

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RE: American Foriegn Policy, Freedom in a Republic Demo... - 8/23/2007 5:33:10 PM

luckydog1

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Not so much into watching these silly vid clips, though I understand some people want it all dumbed down for them, and really hate having thier own postings quoted back to them. But what is a "Republic Democracy"? America is a democratic (thats an adjective) republic (noun).

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RE: American Foriegn Policy, Freedom in a Republic Demo... - 8/23/2007 5:54:56 PM

slaveboyforyou

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Okay, that was an hour and thirty four minutes of wasted time. The narrator in this film seems to imply that the United States is the only country that manipulates the politics of other countries for it's own benefit. The Monroe Doctrine was essentially a declaration that the Western Hemisphere was the United States' own sphere of influence. The European powers had and still use these same tactics in their own foreign affairs with countries in Africa and Asia. It is ridiculous to believe that we should not do the same thing. If it wasn't us doing this doing the Cold War, it would have been the Soviets. Obviously, these manipulations were not perfect and led to obvious abuses. But you can't convince me that these abuses would not have occured otherwise. A dictator is a dictator, regardless if he is a capitalist or a Marxist. Chavez sounds like a saint when he speaks, but so did Stalin and Hitler.

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RE: American Foriegn Policy, Freedom in a Republic Demo... - 8/23/2007 6:05:10 PM

luckydog1

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Dang Slave boy, you wasted an hour and a half. Don't you understand that part of the tactic is to destroy the Jew loving American state by making everyone waste so much time watching the videos?

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RE: American Foriegn Policy, Freedom in a Republic Demo... - 8/23/2007 7:08:30 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Okay, that was an hour and thirty four minutes of wasted time. The narrator in this film seems to imply that the United States is the only country that manipulates the politics of other countries for it's own benefit. The Monroe Doctrine was essentially a declaration that the Western Hemisphere was the United States' own sphere of influence. The European powers had and still use these same tactics in their own foreign affairs with countries in Africa and Asia. It is ridiculous to believe that we should not do the same thing. If it wasn't us doing this doing the Cold War, it would have been the Soviets. Obviously, these manipulations were not perfect and led to obvious abuses. But you can't convince me that these abuses would not have occured otherwise. A dictator is a dictator, regardless if he is a capitalist or a Marxist. Chavez sounds like a saint when he speaks, but so did Stalin and Hitler.

Couple questions:

What is you assesment of the the poor people's attitudes under chaves?

So you are saying then that the Monroe Doctrine effectively gave us the power to colonize?

So you feel the film should have been strictly an interview or you didnt like the ratio between the two maybe?

Why and under what circumstances do you feel america should do the same?

You really knew all that already?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/23/2007 7:09:03 PM >

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: American Foriegn Policy, Freedom in a Republic Demo... - 8/23/2007 7:14:10 PM

SimplyMichael

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Slaveboy,

You need to expand your horizons a bit. What the US does is overthrow democracies and install dictatorships. We always make it worse. Poor fucking Iraqis, they STARTED with a dictator so the only thing left to do was just destroy everything to make it worse.

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RE: American Foriegn Policy, Freedom in a Republic Demo... - 8/24/2007 12:48:20 AM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

Couple questions:

What is you assesment of the the poor people's attitudes under chaves?

So you are saying then that the Monroe Doctrine effectively gave us the power to colonize?

So you feel the film should have been strictly an interview or you didnt like the ratio between the two maybe?

Why and under what circumstances do you feel america should do the same?

You really knew all that already?

I think this is more than a couple of questions, but I'll take a stab at it. The poor people in the film love him. Do you really think this film was without bias? I doubt very seriously they would have included any footage of the poor that don't like him. I can't make a honest assessment of Venezuela or any other country by watching a 90 minute film, and neither can you. This film doesn't say anything about Chavez's actual censorship of media outlets. It also seems to imply that rich Venezuelans have no right to complain about their government when they have it so good.

I did not say that the Monroe Doctrine gave us the power to colonize other countries. It was a warning to other countries to stay out of the Western Hemisphere, because that was under the United States sphere of influence. Using influence to manipulate other countries into doing what is in our own interests is not colonization. I don't particularly like the fact that we do it, but if we didn't someone else would. This film deals a lot with our history during the Cold War. During that time, the Soviets and Cuba were heavily involved in the internal politics of countries all over Latin America. We did the same. I am not saying that is right or wrong. I am simply saying that it is a common practice.

The film was what it was. It was not objective journalism, and I'd say the same thing if it was a right wing biased film. They don't criticize Chavez at all, and they only talked to a few people who are opposed to him. I don't follow Venezuelan affairs closely, but I have heard many Venezuelan expatriates criticize this man. They are not all wealthy, but that shouldn't matter. A person's economic status does not exclude them from having a right to their own opinion.

I would personally prefer it if the United States stayed out of the internal politics of other countries. We can be much more effective at manipulating economics without doing that. We only give people like Chavez and Castro validity when we do things like that. Regardless of what I think about our foreign policy, I still don't think people like Chavez are good for their people. People like him will hang themselves soon enough without our interference.

Knew what already? I knew that we manipulated other governments, and I knew that we directly helped in coups and civil wars. I know that Pinochet has supporters and detractors in Chile and in our own country. I am not Chilean, and I have never been to Chile. I have never been to any country south of Mexico. I am not an expert by any means on Latin American politics. I do know that this film did not give a complete, two sided picture of what goes on there.

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RE: American Foriegn Policy, Freedom in a Republic Demo... - 8/25/2007 2:39:39 PM

NorthernGent

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The paradox with American foreign policy is that they are attemping to install democracies around the world. The limitation is that these democracies are the American version of democracy i.e. a narrow form of democracy which simply aspires to an open economic system. Let's not forget that democracy involves mass participation in society and redistribution of wealth.

Basically, the US advocates a totalitarian system: they have an idea and they wish to impose it upon everyone. That idea being a negative form of liberty. 'No different to the USSR, North Korea or China, in my book.

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RE: American Foriegn Policy, Freedom in a Republic Demo... - 8/26/2007 2:41:21 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Okay, that was an hour and thirty four minutes of wasted time. The narrator in this film seems to imply that the United States is the only country that manipulates the politics of other countries for it's own benefit. The Monroe Doctrine was essentially a declaration that the Western Hemisphere was the United States' own sphere of influence. The European powers had and still use these same tactics in their own foreign affairs with countries in Africa and Asia. It is ridiculous to believe that we should not do the same thing. If it wasn't us doing this doing the Cold War, it would have been the Soviets. Obviously, these manipulations were not perfect and led to obvious abuses. But you can't convince me that these abuses would not have occured otherwise. A dictator is a dictator, regardless if he is a capitalist or a Marxist. Chavez sounds like a saint when he speaks, but so did Stalin and Hitler.

All bang on.

The point that's often missed is that this invasion of Iraq in an attempt to impose a way of life, is a very totalitarian form of operating. The only difference between the American occupation and Soviet actions is in the idea they're promoting; regardless of the idea, both are prepared to kill people because they believe they have the one true answer to society's ills.

Edited to add: I like your isolationist idea, it's a shame that in the face of misinformation and general propaganda, the majority of your compatriots are swayed by those pulling the strings.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 8/26/2007 2:45:54 AM >

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RE: American Foriegn Policy, Freedom in a Republic Demo... - 8/28/2007 12:23:27 AM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

All bang on.

The point that's often missed is that this invasion of Iraq in an attempt to impose a way of life, is a very totalitarian form of operating. The only difference between the American occupation and Soviet actions is in the idea they're promoting; regardless of the idea, both are prepared to kill people because they believe they have the one true answer to society's ills.

Edited to add: I like your isolationist idea, it's a shame that in the face of misinformation and general propaganda, the majority of your compatriots are swayed by those pulling the strings.

I totally disagree with you that "they believe".

They calculate that we will believe! (and unfortunately they are correct, after all they had years to perfect the system, who are the record keepers.... yeh the gov)

The soviets havent mastered the art of "good bullshit" like we have. They are getting better tho!

In their eyes what they really do does not matter as long as americans see it as good.

we all know the press is totally filtered yet we believe it hook line and sinker every time.

wouldnt you after hearing the word terrorist 50 times a day on every channel?

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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