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ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

Unfortunately, it's not really that simple as trying to create a difference between the two because we live in what is considered an evolved democratic republic, which means we have elements of both democracy and republican systems tied into the same system.

Example: We have a federal government that operates on a republican representative system. But to become part of the republican representative system, we use a majority rule process of democracy to decide who becomes that representative. Another example is in the decision making process of laws. On the federal level, we have our representatives making laws, but when we start moving down to the state and local levels, we have initiatives and referendums that are actually democracy-driven rather than republican driven. You could even say that the very last challenge of constitutionality in the United States is a democratic institution in that the states through votes of the people can call for a constitutional convention which can completely dissolve the current republican government as we know it.

There are a lot of other nuances as well that make it really difficult to put up dictionary definitions that do not really deal with constitutional and common law practices that have been established and practiced in this democratic republic.

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RealOne
Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy.

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Government; Republican government. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated.

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It seems that of the forums I am on people loosely and incorrectly interchange and substitute democracy for republic.  Here is another perfect example of how hearing something stated incorrectly in the media has caught on and becomed ingrained in the minds of people and they are literally clueless to it being any different.

If you correct them they give you a funny look as if "whats the difference"

Well since so many still use it here is the difference:

REPUBLIC vs. DEMOCRACY

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In the Pledge of Allegiance we all pledge allegiance to our Republic, not to a democracy. "Republic" is the proper description of our government, not "democracy." I invite you to join me in raising public awareness regarding that distinction.

The distinction between our Republic and a democracy is not an idle one. It has great legal significance.

The Constitution guarantees to every state a Republican form of government (Art. 4, Sec. 4). No state may join the United States unless it is a Republic. Our Republic is one dedicated to "liberty and justice for all." Minority individual rights are the priority. The people have natural rights instead of civil rights. The people are protected by the Bill of Rights from the majority. One vote in a jury can stop all of the majority from depriving any one of the people of his rights; this would not be so if the United States were a democracy. (see People's rights vs Citizens' rights)

In a pure democracy 51 beats 49[%]. In a democracy there is no such thing as a significant minority: there are no minority rights except civil rights (privileges) granted by a condescending majority. Only five of the U.S. Constitution's first ten amendments apply to Citizens of the United States. Simply stated, a democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. Socrates was executed by a democracy: though he harmed no one, the majority found him intolerable.

SOME DICTIONARY DEFINITIONS

Government. ....the government is but an agency of the state, distinguished as it must be in accurate thought from its scheme and machinery of government. ....In a colloquial sense, the United States or its representatives, considered as the prosecutor in a criminal action; as in the phrase, "the government objects to the witness." [Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, p. 625]

Government; Republican government. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers are specially delegated. In re Duncan, 139 U.S. 449, 11 S.Ct. 573, 35 L.Ed. 219; Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. (21 Wall.) 162, 22 L.Ed. 627. [Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, p. 626]

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, pp. 388-389.

Note: Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition, can be found in any law library and most law offices.

COMMENTS

Notice that in a Democracy, the sovereignty is in the whole body of the free citizens. The sovereignty is not divided to smaller units such as individual citizens. To solve a problem, only the whole body politic is authorized to act. Also, being citizens, individuals have duties and obligations to the government. The government's only obligations to the citizens are those legislatively pre-defined for it by the whole body politic.

In a Republic, the sovereignty resides in the people themselves, whether one or many. In a Republic, one may act on his own or through his representatives as he chooses to solve a problem. Further, the people have no obligation to the government; instead, the government being hired by the people, is obliged to its owner, the people.

The people own the government agencies. The government agencies own the citizens. In the United States we have a three-tiered cast system consisting of people ---> government agencies ---> and citizens.

The people did "ordain and establish this Constitution," not for themselves, but "for the United States of America." In delegating powers to the government agencies the people gave up none of their own. (See Preamble of U.S. Constitution). This adoption of this concept is why the U.S. has been called the "Great Experiment in self government." The People govern themselves, while their agents (government agencies) perform tasks listed in the Preamble for the benefit of the People. The experiment is to answer the question, "Can self-governing people coexist and prevail over government agencies that have no authority over the People?"

The citizens of the United States are totally subject to the laws of the United States (See 14th Amendment of U.S. Constitution). NOTE: U.S. citizenship did not exist until July 28, 1868.

Actually, the United States is a mixture of the two systems of government (Republican under Common Law, and democratic under statutory law). The People enjoy their God-given natural rights in the Republic. In a democracy, the Citizens enjoy only government granted privileges (also known as civil rights).

There was a great political division between two major philosophers, Hobbes and Locke. Hobbes was on the side of government. He believed that sovereignty was vested in the state. Locke was on the side of the People. He believed that the fountain of sovereignty was the People of the state. Statists prefer Hobbes. Populists choose Locke. In California, the Government Code sides with Locke. Sections 11120 and 54950 both say, "The people of this State do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies which serve them." The preambles of the U.S. and California Constitutions also affirm the choice of Locke by the People.

It is my hope that the U.S. will always remain a Republic, because I value individual freedom.

reference:    www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/repvsdem.htm

Thomas Jefferson said that liberty and ignorance cannot coexist.* Will you help to preserve minority rights by fulfilling the promise in the Pledge of Allegiance to support the Republic? Will you help by raising public awareness of the difference between the Republic and a democracy?

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization,
it expects what never was and never will be."
Thomas Jefferson, 1816.

I choose locke too btw while at the same time keeping in mind what winston churchill said: The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

The union of states was conceived and given to us as a republic:

There is a story, often told, that upon exiting the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was asked,what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: "A republic, if you can keep it."

also ben franklin:
A democracy is two wolves and a small lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Freedom under a constitutional republic is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.

So i hope this clears up and shows people how to differentiate between the 2 systems.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

........at the same time keeping in mind what winston churchill said: The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It utterly escapes me why people keep harping on this specious distinction between "democracy" and "republic."  It's like asking for the difference between "transportation" and "automobile."  The whole issue is really very simple: democracy is the political ideal that we wish to implement, and republicanism is the means by which we implement it in this country.

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ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
The "things" inside that circle are represented by smaller circles.

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It is so apt that Churchill takes credit for WW2 rather than the hundreds of thousands of young lads who lost their lives. That's him in a nutshell: a power crazy blaggard.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
I'll add that a key difference is that democracy aims to create a better world

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
a) Republic: the individual's freedom to choose/live as he/she sees fit or
b) Democracy: society's freedom to build a better world, from which all individual's will benefit (in theory).

In my opinion, both are flawed, and I think both systems will be rendered useless in the face of better arrangements for co-existence. Taking the Republic as an example: where politicians and the establishment lie to the people, and where advertisement and propaganda is used to cloak a situation in a false guise, then the choice is uniformed and not in the interests of the individual (unless that individual is the one pulling the strings). You mention Locke; he was keen to advocate that we see the world not how it actually is, but rather through our perception based on personal experience. If he was correct, then the ability to choose as you see fit is not freedom. Locke advocated education to overcome tyranny: in other words, changing people for the better i.e. democracy.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
As Termyn8or alludes to, democracy or republic: in principle, they're admirable ideas; in practice, both are providing an illusion of freedom

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ORIGINAL: luckydog1

What that means of course is that if i want to go to a mall pull out a weapon and start shooting in the air because i just won the lottery that does not ingringe on anothers "RIGHTS".

Nope it means if you go to your own land, that is not in an area where by law discharge of firearms illegal, you can shoot your gun up in the air all you want.  The people ceratinly have the right to elect representatives to pass laws preventing nuts from shooting up the mall, even if no one gets hit.  Thanks for the clear example of your complete non comprehension of the Constitution.  And Just think after Savior Ron Paul gets elected we can shoot guns up in the air at the mall all we want.

But what is the status of your cold fusion/perpetual mation machine?

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ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

RealOne
Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy.

Which in practice means that no decisions can ever be implemented  unless all citizens agree.
When did that last happen ?

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Government; Republican government. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated.

Sounds a bit the same as your first definition to me.
It seems to me that all you have could have established is that democracy is not the same as say oligarchy.
You have not established that democracy and republicanism are mutually exclusive.

Adding: the emphasis on a Republic in the US constitution as I understand it was to ensure that the excesses that European monarchs had indulged in never crossed the Atlantic.
Quite right too lol
Unless you happened to be a monarch of course

Republic is the set
Democracy is a subset of republicanism.
ie draw a big circle and everything in that circle is what constitutes a republic.
The "things" inside that circle are represented by smaller circles.
One smaller circle would be labelled democracy. Clear as mud eh ?

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ORIGINAL: baldjeanfriede

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seeks
Republic is the set
Democracy is a subset of republicanism.

If at all it is the other way round; "republic" is a subset of "democracy"; you can have democracy without being a republic, but you can't be a republic without democracy.