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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 5:17:09 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WestWanderer

Well as much as I apreciate humour and all, it seems to me that some have misunderstood my question. I wasn't making slight toward any Pro Doms or Pro Subs, I was genuinely curious about the prospect of being a male pro sub.

Im sorry if this idea ofends people, but I don't see how it's any different than a female pro sub or Pro Dom. Perhaps I am misinterpriting the jokes for sarcasm, and if that is the case I am sorry. But I really was just curious.




I think with any business, you have to think about what you'd like to offer, and figure out what kind of niche isn't being fulfilled.   Then figure out how you can fulfill that niche in a way that people would be willing to pay for it.

Female dommes that want just a couple hours of casual play with a male sub typically do not have any trouble finding it - in fact, I'd go as far as saying the line of male subs willing to engage in that type of arrangement for *free* would be quite long.   It's also my understanding that in the world of male strippers & sex workers, while some women will pay, it's the male clients who they make the money off of, so it would follow in logic that a pro-malesub would most likely make money off of male clients moreso than women.

So what you have to do is figure out what you're going to be offering that is different, and so significantly better that femdoms would be willing to pay for the experience.  Have a really good idea of what you're selling.   Figure out who you're going to market that to, and how you're going to do that.  

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 8/31/2007 5:20:37 AM >

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 5:35:35 AM   
MsLilac


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Any male subs want to earn £5? ;-)

I’m sorry, I couldn’t resist. Lol!

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 6:14:52 AM   
MsLilac


Posts: 151
Joined: 5/31/2007
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I have thought about this actually. It appealed in the sense that there is a beauty in getting exactly what I want, the exact way I want it, and I am assuming that if I am paying for a service, I would get that, to the letter. Then there is the control that appeals to me. Though for me, I would be more interested in service orientated service, as apposed to wanting a bit of ‘ass and chest’ to play with.

But I also wouldn’t be happy knowing that, deep down, they are only motivated by money, and have no desire to please me, or build an emotional connection.

And anyway, there is an abundance of subs offering it for free, so in reality, I wouldn't of had to pay for it, when I was still looking.

I think there may possibly be a niche market, for exceptional, high class male pro-subs, but I suspect in terms of making a reasonable living, they would have to be prepared entertain male clients. They would need to locate, and have very definite marketing ideas of what they have to offer, and that would need to be something that Dommes/Doms couldn’t get easily for free.

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 10:03:59 AM   
WestWanderer


Posts: 35
Joined: 1/20/2006
Status: offline 		The general opinion seems to be that it would be very hard, which is what I assumed. I wonder why it should be this way though? And I've noticed that the very notion of the idea seems to make people think that the sub in question would be lesser somehow. As if a sub being paid were only doign it for money.

However I've never seen the same said about a Pro Mistress or a Dom into financial domination. For them it's "getting paid to do what you love". Are there just a different set of rules for Doms and subs? Or is there a different set of rules for men and women? This is actually somwhat frustraiting because well, in all honesty I could care less about gettin paid. I'd be entirely content to find a Mistress in my area so that we could please each other. (I don't buy into the notion that it's a submissive's place to only want to please their Dominant and expect nothing in return.)

But not having the option because I am male and submissive quite stinks no matter how you look at it.

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 11:14:03 AM   
MsLilac


Posts: 151
Joined: 5/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WestWanderer

However I've never seen the same said about a Pro Mistress or a Dom into financial domination.



Really? You've obviously not been looking at these forums for to long then.

Also, financial domination, and pro domination are not the same thing. You are seemingly inter-changing the two.

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 11:15:57 AM   
MsLilac


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Joined: 5/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WestWanderer

The general opinion seems to be that it would be very hard, which is what I assumed. I wonder why it should be this way though? 


Supply and demand.

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 11:35:57 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WestWanderer
The general opinion seems to be that it would be very hard, which is what I assumed. I wonder why it should be this way though?


As someone else said, you can't sell snow to an Eskimo.

Business 101  -   you aren't going to sell something to someone they can easily get for free.   You're more than welcome to try it, but if you look at what you'd have to invest - paying for a playspace and setting up a dungeon, investing a vast amount in a wardrobe for yourself, investing in BDSM equipment and toys, marketing what you're trying to sell, plus a couple visits to a lawyer and an accountant to make sure you CYA...you're looking at investing money on equivalent to buying yourself a college education, without a lot of promise of return.

quote:


However I've never seen the same said about a Pro Mistress or a Dom into financial domination.


Whether it's 1:40 or 1:1000, depending on what study you believe, the reality is that there are a lot fewer Dommes out there than male subs.  Argueably, male subs who are looking for a full-blown relationship are a lot farther and fewer in between, so that leaves you with an awful lot of male subs out there looking for play situations.

Consequently, Prodommes tend to do very well, if they're smart and talented.   There's a few pro male doms out there, but not many - most seem to also cater to male subs.

quote:


But not having the option because I am male and submissive quite stinks no matter how you look at it.


So let me ask you this - what is it that you plan to offer that would make women want to pay you to play with them?   I'm really curious about that.

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 8/31/2007 12:29:35 PM >

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 11:46:27 AM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood


So let me ask you this - what is it that you plan to offer that would make women want to pay you to play with them?   I'm really curious about that.


Free parking!


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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 11:49:53 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood


So let me ask you this - what is it that you plan to offer that would make women want to pay you to play with them?   I'm really curious about that.


Free parking!




What do I get to park and where do I get to park it? 

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 11:56:46 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WestWanderer

Well as much as I apreciate humour and all, it seems to me that some have misunderstood my question. I wasn't making slight toward any Pro Doms or Pro Subs, I was genuinely curious about the prospect of being a male pro sub.

Im sorry if this idea ofends people, but I don't see how it's any different than a female pro sub or Pro Dom. Perhaps I am misinterpriting the jokes for sarcasm, and if that is the case I am sorry. But I really was just curious.



don't mind meWestWanderer...silly mode still active...never know which topic I'll post a silly comment about...I just do it for fun and to break the monotony and to liven up things around here...after all, I "AM" still an unowned "free agent" subbie male...why not have a little fun while I'm at it...LOL


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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 12:01:28 PM   
littlesarbonn


Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood


So let me ask you this - what is it that you plan to offer that would make women want to pay you to play with them?   I'm really curious about that.


Free parking!




What do I get to park and where do I get to park it? 


http://www.southtexasdiecast.com/hwguide/images/hwset/hwset_56149.jpg

Take your pick. They all come with the garage.


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<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me


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The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 12:01:30 PM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WestWanderer

Would any female dominant pay a submissive male?



They say there's no such thing as a dumb question, but sometimes I wonder... ;P

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 12:09:41 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLilac

But I also wouldn’t be happy knowing that, deep down, they are only motivated by money, and have no desire to please me, or build an emotional connection.


There's the rub.

Regarding receiving personal service or SM for money; while I think there is a certain sector of the male population that can really enjoy their SM and not have an emo connection to it, it seems far less a phenomenon in the female segment of the population.  There's really not a tremendous glut of any paid submissive in the commercial D/s business, for a variety of factors, namely safety, however, I think that maybe some of the imbalance might have something to also do with the distribution of Doms to subs in the gender categories.

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 12:36:26 PM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood


So let me ask you this - what is it that you plan to offer that would make women want to pay you to play with them?   I'm really curious about that.


Free parking!




What do I get to park and where do I get to park it? 


http://www.southtexasdiecast.com/hwguide/images/hwset/hwset_56149.jpg

Take your pick. They all come with the garage.



NOT really what I had in mind ;-)

_____________________________

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Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 3:19:11 PM   
rick19


Posts: 98
Status: offline 		 I don't think so. Male subs don't get paid to be in videos or photo shoots (I'm sure there are exceptions like MIP for example, I am only speaking from what I've seen), and the reason for this is because there are tons of men who are willing to do it for nothing. Why should a woman have to pay to beat your ass, when the next guy would give it up for free? 

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 4:08:22 PM   
CandyLover


Posts: 68
Joined: 6/5/2007
Status: offline 		Well, if you're one of those service-only subs, then I'm glad to say that this kind of thing happens every day--most dominant women will pay a man to do a service he enjoys doing!  The male service subs who work for free usually just aren't that great at plumbing, fixing appliances, or landscaping.  You'll see far more clients than any domme can imagine, and you can make a lot more money, too.  You'll have to serve some men and switch women too, but that's business!  You may have to go to trade school, though.

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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 5:37:03 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood
Business 101  -   you aren't going to sell something to someone they can easily get for free.   You're more than welcome to try it, but if you look at what you'd have to invest - paying for a playspace and setting up a dungeon, investing a vast amount in a wardrobe for yourself, investing in BDSM equipment and toys, marketing what you're trying to sell, plus a couple visits to a lawyer and an accountant to make sure you CYA...you're looking at investing money on equivalent to buying yourself a college education, without a lot of promise of return.


Unless you're counting actually purchasing a building to operate out of, i doubt it'll come anywhere near what a college education costs these days... and i do tire the "buying lots of gear" justification for ProDomme rates... While i'm sure i don't go through the same quantity of consumables, my toy collection was far from free. (If they were free for amateurs, i'd have a lot more!)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

If you ever allow it to do more than just cross your mind, dave, let Me know.


You'll be first on my list, but i doubt i'd ever actually do it just because of the liability (same reason i've never tried to go production on any of the toys i've designed... It's scary out there in Lawsuit Jackpotland!)


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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 8:31:11 PM   
JordanNYC


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood
Business 101  -   you aren't going to sell something to someone they can easily get for free.   You're more than welcome to try it, but if you look at what you'd have to invest - paying for a playspace and setting up a dungeon, investing a vast amount in a wardrobe for yourself, investing in BDSM equipment and toys, marketing what you're trying to sell, plus a couple visits to a lawyer and an accountant to make sure you CYA...you're looking at investing money on equivalent to buying yourself a college education, without a lot of promise of return.


Unless you're counting actually purchasing a building to operate out of, i doubt it'll come anywhere near what a college education costs these days... and i do tire the "buying lots of gear" justification for ProDomme rates... While i'm sure i don't go through the same quantity of consumables, my toy collection was far from free. (If they were free for amateurs, i'd have a lot more!)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

If you ever allow it to do more than just cross your mind, dave, let Me know.


You'll be first on my list, but i doubt i'd ever actually do it just because of the liability (same reason i've never tried to go production on any of the toys i've designed... It's scary out there in Lawsuit Jackpotland!)




do you have any idea what the overhead is like on running a successful house?


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RE: Pro Subs? - 8/31/2007 9:16:16 PM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood
Business 101  -   you aren't going to sell something to someone they can easily get for free.   You're more than welcome to try it, but if you look at what you'd have to invest - paying for a playspace and setting up a dungeon, investing a vast amount in a wardrobe for yourself, investing in BDSM equipment and toys, marketing what you're trying to sell, plus a couple visits to a lawyer and an accountant to make sure you CYA...you're looking at investing money on equivalent to buying yourself a college education, without a lot of promise of return.


Unless you're counting actually purchasing a building to operate out of, i doubt it'll come anywhere near what a college education costs these days... and i do tire the "buying lots of gear" justification for ProDomme rates... While i'm sure i don't go through the same quantity of consumables, my toy collection was far from free. (If they were free for amateurs, i'd have a lot more!)



Right, but the sub who has invested himself in pursuing and maintaing BDSM relationships (including being available to be in one), invested in his own education and equipment, is generally not cut of the same cloth as the sub who will seek out the services of a Prodomme, I would imagine.  I'm not a prodomme so I don't have all the answers, but I have been around the lifestyle for a lot of years. 

I do know that if I add up how much I've spent on toys over the years (admittedly - I have far more than anyone could justifiably need)....books....lectures....munches...clubs...convention weekends....etc. over the last 10+ years - well, it's a lot.  So for me, going out and hiring someone to play with for a couple hours just isn't going to happen.  That's probably more to do with what I've personally invested rather than what I've financially invested, combined with my experience and my knowledge of just how easy it is to find play ~ if that were all I wanted.

Incidentally, not all colleges cost $40,000/year....if you're smart and make good choices, you can make that figure cover the cost of the full degree.

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 8/31/2007 9:23:09 PM >

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RE: Pro Subs? - 9/1/2007 9:53:42 AM   
SubJordanTyler


Posts: 268
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		I've had a little experience with this, although I wouldn't consider myself to have been a true pro-sub.  I helped out a friend of a friend Domme in her dungeon before.  She got my name from her friend, who knew my previous Mistress and of my anal experience.  The Domme wanted a male sub experienced in this area so she could hold training classes for newbie Mistresses to learn how to work a strap-on.

So I became the demo and training piece for a few of her classes.  I didn't get paid for the sessions outright.  She did cover my travel expenses (they weren't much but I did have to go a little out of my immediate area) and dominated me in the dungeon on occassion for nothing in return.  I also let her try out a few new things on me.  I wasn't her sub, so I suppose you could call that a little "pro" in a sense.

I also helped out a friend who taught sex classes to women once before.  She wanted to have a live demo - how to perform oral on a male, how to have a male please you orally, and various positions for vaginal and anal sex and fun things you can do with them to make the sex better.  I only had sex with my friend - never the participants in the class - as she demonstrated these for the class using me.

I did get to answer questions that were asked during the class, but other than that, I just was her training piece, so it did feel a little like I was in a sub setting.  I didn't get paid for that, but getting to have sex with my friend in front of the class was a huge turn-on and quite a rush.  I suppose this might be a little off the topic, but I thought it was a fun story to share!!

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