How Doms treat subs they don't know

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PeggyO -> How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 6:06:20 AM)
Hello everyone, I have a friend who recently joined this site. In watching her interactions with dominant men, I have discovered there's something I really don't understand about how they treat her and I am hoping that by asking maybe dominant men can shed some light. She states very clearly in her profile that she is a "service oriented bedroom submissive". She also states she's not looking for a full time Ds for Ms relationship but is looking for people to scene with and have fun with. She has gotten emails from absolute strangers calling her things like "wench" or "little one" by way of introduction. She got a letter from a dominant asking for her advice on a non BDSM subject which, from her profile, it is very clear she is expert on, yet he insisted in his letter on using small letters when referring to her and caps when referring to himself. What I'm trying to understand is why, when she has been very clear that she is not and is not looking to be a submissive to anyone outside specific scene situations, someone would talk to her like that and treat her in a way that is fundamentally as a second class citizen. I know for myself, I get really annoyed when a stranger treats me like that. She is finding it pretty irritating too. If the dominants want to make any kind of good first impression, they've pretty much failed. I'm hoping that dominants might be able to explain to me why they would treat someone that they don't know and with whom they have no established consensual Ds dynamic like that, particularly when the person says they don't identify as submissive outside the bedroom. I don't get the psychology - maybe if I did I wouldn't be so annoyed by it when someone does it to me. Be well, Peggy

mnottertail -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 6:19:44 AM)
Why do ostensibly intelligent women post this stuff by the millions pretending confusion? Maybe if I understood that, I wouldn't be annoyed. Is there some psychological reasoning? Is it part of the estrogenic psyche? Is there a reason? Is there a cause? Iff (if and only if, for non mathematically minded) there is one girl in the world that says no but means yes, that means that all girls say no but mean yes. You are on a sex site. ------- Let us examine that for a minute....................... OK, we're done, I think we have resolved it. Ron

Absolutemaster -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 6:27:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeggyO If the dominants want to make any kind of good first impression, they've pretty much failed. Peggy Just call it natural deselection.

DarkDaddyZ -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 7:24:18 AM)
Because they have no home training. To me a Dom who reads a profile that is clear about what a person is seeking and still emails the person expecting the person to bow down probably isn't experienced much or likes shits and giggles.... It's no different than approaching a sub with a profile saying she's an extreme player and expecting to go right into that via the first e-mail.

AquaticSub -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 7:52:30 AM)
Because a certain percentage of the population are rude and condescending? Or have never been called on their shit? Remember, these aren't magical mystical beings we are talking about here. Masters, owners and dominants are just people. If you think it would be helpful suggest my approach to your friend. Whenever I get an e-mail calling me slave/slut/wench/etc. I inform them that Aqua is my prefered moniker, not whatever term they used and I would appreciate it's use in the future. I also submit to the rules of English, so please give things correct capitalization and I won't be capitalizing everything that refers to them. If they insist on using slave/slut/whore/sub, won't give Aqua a capital A or are put out by my refusal to type the way they think I should, I simply tell them that they can take it up with my owner or cease contact with me. To be fair, there are some people who I don't mind when they use my name in lowercase. However, these are people that I already know and respect. We simply don't do things the same way and have reached an agreement of mutual respect. However, this would not be extended to a perfect stranger. Edited for typos. I swear I'm awake.

SirDraco7 -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 8:19:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeggyO She got a letter from a dominant asking for her advice on a non BDSM subject which, from her profile, it is very clear she is expert on, yet he insisted in his letter on using small letters when referring to her and caps when referring to himself. What I'm trying to understand is why, when she has been very clear that she is not and is not looking to be a submissive to anyone outside specific scene situations, someone would talk to her like that and treat her in a way that is fundamentally as a second class citizen. Well, the psychology behind it is that many men are selfish and don't care. They look at themselves first and others last. They say what they think sometimes is what the girl wants to hear, and other times what they think the girl will respond to. I would like to say for the defense of the Dom who asked the non BDSM question, I personally don't blame him. If his only offense was typing like that, he could've done so because it's just what he's been used to. If she respectfully asked him not to and that it bothered her with him doing so it would be a judge of his character. If he was any decent measure of a guy he'd correct himself and apaolgize for it. If he's an ass he'd be offended by her request. As for everything else, I agree with you. There is no reason to treat others as a second class citizen. But many people are.. who they are. My advice to her? Note them and ignore/block/reject them. Because there is really no way to stop those type of messages. Your profile and how it's written can limit them perhaps, but stop them? Doubtful. In my experience, I've actually been rejected by women because I was not like that, I was not strict or stern enough in my first message. Are the women real? or just guys faking girls? who knows? But some women desire and respond to such treatment. Personally I treat everyone as an equal. I message them in a friendly and non aggressive manner. I don't assume and I don't push. I understand girls and subs get many messages compared to myself so I try to be respectful and be myself. Maybe it's not forceful enough, but she's not my submissive so why would I treat her any different than a vanilla girl I meet out in public? In a weird way.. maybe that is some guys way of standing out, make them more visible and more interesting than the other messages she recieves. Perhaps they think such words and talk and treatment would be a turn on, and if he turns her on she might be more likely to reply than if he didn't. Those are guesses anyways. It's hard to say what guys like that are thinking about when they message what they do because I'm not like that. just my thoughts..

LadySeraphina -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 8:29:25 AM)
I can tell you that when it comes to capitalization, I generally put all submissives' names in lower case just out of habit. I don't capitalize my pronouns - I'm not a Goddess, no matter what my boys say [:D] - and I don't put a subbie's pronouns in lower case if they are the first word in a sentence. I also refer to submissive males as 'boys' and submissive females as 'girls', though I don't stand on any other protocol. So some of what these guys are saying could be force of habit. As to the rest of them, bah, they're the usual wankers. I get them too, but from the other side.

LadyRope -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 8:43:49 AM)
personally I think its a lot about people playing out their fantasy on line...some ,if not many on here have never experienmced real time and most likely never will...in that their sole introduction has been the net and we all know how all information off the net has to be correct [8\|] ...I think their knowledge and what they have read has led them to believe this is how you act when your dominant...

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 8:47:04 AM)
I think it's because there's a fair number of newbies who get turned on and will be excited to be immediately approached like that- so it's a technique that has success.

CutieMouse -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 10:44:35 AM)
The whole "little one" etc thing has to work for a certain percentage of men, or it wouldn't be as common place as it is... when complete strangers address me with a term of endearment (sweet girl, etc), I point out that it's rude to do so without first asking a lady's permission, and offer to send them an unsolicited email saying "Hey there, Sparky!" to see if it makes them twitch. More often than not I'm told I'm not a real submissive, or called awful names, or they throw out the tired old "Which chapter of the BDSM Handbook covered that 'rule'?" argument.

Archer -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 11:03:45 AM)
Peggy O I'm going to be as dispassionate and objective as I can because this sort of thing bothers me as well but I had a time when I was guilty of similar but nowhere near as egredious behaviour. Pet names immediately, form in many cases an illusion of framiliarity which lends the illusion of knowing more about the person than you really do. It's akin to the fortune tellers gambit, fein framiliarity until you can establish it for real and then you give the illusion that you have known their soul all your life. It plays into the fantasy of Soul Mates, The One, Destiny, etc. To an extent the socila expectation that you project being THE ONE in order to have any success has brought this on. Having to live up to the projected fantasy of The One certainly drives many men to distraction. Cap no cap thing I'm willing to bet it is habit more than anything. 21 days of refering to anyone you see as a submissive in lower case is all it takes to fall into the habit of doing it all the time unless you formulae concious thoughts about what and to whom you are writting. That's a bit much to ask for most men who are not used to writting about absract thoughts.

wittman40 -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 11:25:08 AM)
Archer has the right of it when talking of intelligent Doms. Basically such behaviour usually comes down to two things: 1. They approach everyone the same way and aren't open to adjusting their approach based on how well they know the person or what the other person's stated or hinted preferences are. 2. They've gotten success with that approach before. If you try an approach and have success with it then you've gotten positive reinforcement according to Skinerian Operant Conditioning AND that approach is reinforced ( becomes more common ). What is worst of all is that by using that approach here and meeting with success sometimes and failure sometimes they are actually establishing a variable ratio reward system --- absolutely THE most addictive system possible --- this form or variable ratio reward system is precisely why gambling is so addictive. Because one can, potentially, win every time one bets one gets addicted. If we won 1 time in 10 with monotonous regularity we would get bored of gambling, there would be no thrill. In essence since this approach sometimes works Doms who use it are trained, a la Operant Conditioning, to use it more and more frequently. Strangely enough the more times they try and fail compared to succeeding the more strongly their use of this approach will be reinforced. So, if it succeeds 1 time in 10 it will be reinforced a bit but if it succeeds 1 time in 100 it will be reinforced a lot, albeit it will take longer to be reinforced. So, the very fact that it results in so few negatives helps "addict" them to that approach. The only way to eradicate the behavior ( extinct it in Skinerian terms ) is for it NEVER to succeed. Since this behaviour is prevalent it must sometimes, albeit rarely, succeed. As with most things it all comes down to psychology and, in this case, "Doms" being trained by their experiences and becoming slave to them.... a concept I find amusing ;)

wittman40 -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 11:30:56 AM)
As far as the pet name thing goes: Psychologically speaking if we use pet names ( and their use is accepted ) we have already established, in the mind of the other, that our relationship with them is sufficiently close to allow for the use of pet names and thus, psychologically, we are already "in the door". As above it won't work all the time but it will work sometimes and thus be reinforced. It also plays into the whole "persuasion" system whereby you can use either: 1. Big ask, small ask, 2. Consecutive small asks or 3 Reciprocity to persuade the other. The best way to get someone to agree to do something pretty major is to either have a number of small asks each of which is within their comfort zone and to which they will agree OR to establish reciprocity and make them feel obliged to you - one reason car salespeople often are friendly and give you their pen or a drink etc etc. Socially this makes us feel obligated to them and thus makes us bargain a bit less hard. Obviously all of the above are trends and so some individuals don't follow the trends but if you're a betting person ( aka someone prone to addiction to variable ratio reward systems ;) ) then that's the way to bet ;)

Archer -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 11:31:50 AM)
Gotta love B.F. Skinner.

wittman40 -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 11:32:57 AM)
Hehe. Indeed, the basis of all obedience training ;)

iammachine -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 12:39:02 PM)
quote: You are on a sex site. ------- Let us examine that for a minute....................... Y'know, just because someone is on a site where the common thread may be sexual in nature, doesn't mean that that woman (or anyone) is open season and happy to accept any schmuck that makes themselves known. But yes, I know, schmucks are to be expected. I just had to get up on my soap box and rant for a moment. I know it's par for the course, but that doesn't mean I have to like or quietly accept it. [:@]

mnottertail -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 12:44:48 PM)
I agree, I don't have to accept it either. I am sure you have contacted the ACLU about the spam you are getting on your yahoo and hotmail and gmail and hi5 and linked in and home address and telephone and you bitch at the world around you about it, leaving notes all over about this, shouting the shit from the loudspeakers in the panel truck down 42nd. See, the constant bitching about this is what gets fuckin' old. No more, no less. Let's talk about blowjobs, and keep it positive, that is what we are here for. Ron

iammachine -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 12:58:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Absolutemaster quote: ORIGINAL: PeggyO If the dominants want to make any kind of good first impression, they've pretty much failed. Peggy Just call it natural deselection. Quote for truth. To the OP: Many people, regardless or gender, orientation or pretty much anything, pretty much just suck. It is the way of the interweb, hell, the way of the world, just more of a hassle on ye olde interweb where many people have the means to interact with many others, and often forget their manners. Many people have issues with reading comprehension. The nice thing about those people, is it's easy to hit delete. Others, have issues with little concepts like boundaries and consent. The block button is very handy for those. I have a saying that I like "Is that your protocol in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?" It has the benefit of giving the person pause, or just ticking 'em off but either way problem solved. :) As to why, it's any number of things. I think some people are just casting a wide net, some are just dumb, others are playing games, and some may make assumptions and don't know any better. Really, why isn't all that important as the result is the same, it's just something that you deal with, and you can let it bother you, or let it roll of your back and giggle as you move on to greener pastures with people that are more respectful. Wheat, chaff and all that jazz.

iammachine -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 1:04:04 PM)
quote: See, the constant bitching about this is what gets fuckin' old. No more, no less. Let's talk about blowjobs, and keep it positive, that is what we are here for. Ron shrug Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot. People feel the need to vent now and then, just as you are bitching about people bitching. [;)] So what, really? Having something to bitch about gets old, hearing people bitch gets old, people bitching about people bitching gets old, it's all old and tired but that doesn't change a thing.

Guilty1974 -> RE: How Doms treat subs they don't know (8/27/2007 1:21:04 PM)
quote: I can tell you that when it comes to capitalization, I generally put all submissives' names in lower case just out of habit. I have another habit. I generally write all names exactly the way people spell their names themselves. If a submissive does not write his or her own name in lowercase, there's no reason for me to do so.

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