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Global warming & McIntyre's data - 8/27/2007 5:32:25 PM   
thornhappy


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Joined: 12/16/2006
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Hi folks--

Lots of fine points here (compliments of the NYT)  on the debate lately with McIntyre's data and global warming.  Long but worth it.

thornhapy

By ANDREW C. REVKIN Published: August 26, 2007 Never underestimate the power of the blogosphere and a quarter of a degree to inflame the fight over global warming.
A quarter-degree Fahrenheit is roughly the downward adjustment NASA scientists made earlier this month in their annual estimates of the average temperature in the contiguous 48 states since 2000. They corrected the numbers after an error in meshing two sets of temperature data was discovered by Stephen McIntyre, a blogger and retired business executive in Toronto. Smaller adjustments were made to some readings for some preceding years.
All of this would most likely have passed unremarkably if Mr. McIntyre had not blogged that the adjustments changed the rankings of warmest years for the contiguous states since 1895, when record-keeping began.
Suddenly, 1934 appeared to vault ahead of 1998 as the warmest year on record (by a statistically meaningless 0.036 degrees Fahrenheit). In NASA’s most recent data set, 1934 had followed 1998 by a statistically meaningless 0.018 degrees. Conservative bloggers, columnists and radio hosts pounced. “We have proof of man-made global warming,” Rush Limbaughtold his radio audience. “The man-made global warming is inside NASA.”
Mr. McIntyre, who has spent years seeking flaws in studies pointing to human-driven climate change, traded broadsides on the Web with James E. Hansen, the NASA team’s leader. Dr. Hansen said he would not “joust with court jesters” and Mr. McIntyre posited that Dr. Hansen might have a “Jor-El complex” — a reference to Superman’s father, who foresaw the destruction of his planet and sent his son packing.
Blogs are still reverberating, but Mr. McIntyre, Dr. Hansen and others familiar with the initial data revisions are clarifying what is, and is not, at issue. One thing not in question, Mr. McIntyre and Dr. Hansen agree, is the merit of shifting away from energy choices that contribute heat-trapping greenhouse gases to the atmosphere.
Mr. McIntyre said he feels “climate change is a serious issue.” His personal preference is to shift increasingly to nuclear power and away from coal and oil, the main source of heat-trapping carbon dioxide.
Mr. McIntyre and Dr. Hansen also agree that the NASA data glitch had no effect on the global temperature trend, nudging it by an insignificant thousandth of a degree. Everyone appears also to agree that too much attention is paid to records, particularly given that the difference between 1934, 1998, and several other sets of years in the top 10 warmest list for the United States are so small as to be statistically meaningless.
Mr. McIntyre said that when he posted the revised list under the heading “A New Leaderboard at the U.S. Open,” “I just was sort of having some fun with it as much as anything.”
[bold added] He added: “The significance of things has been misstated by Limbaugh and people like that.”
Dr. Hansen and his team note that they rarely, if ever, discuss individual years, particularly regional findings like those for the United States (the lower 48 are only 2 percent of the planet’s surface). “In general I think that we want to avoid going into more and more detail about ranking of individual years,” he said in an e-mail message. “As far as I remember, we have always discouraged that as being somewhat nonsensical.”
Jay Lawrimore, a scientist at the National Climatic Data Center of the Commerce Department who works on assembling the climate records that NASA analyzed, said his agency could probably do a better job of emphasizing the uncertainty surrounding its annual temperature announcements. Indeed, there is enough wiggle room in the numbers that the center has a different list of the 10 warmest years than those produced using NASA’s and Mr. McIntyre’s analyses. By the climate center’s reckoning, 1998 remains the warmest year for the 48 states (with 2006 second and 1934 third).
Dr. Lawrimore, Dr. Hansen and other experts said that trends are far more important than particular years, and the recent widespread warming trend has been clear — and very distinct from the regional hot spell that drove up United States temperatures in the 1930s.
Mr. McIntyre and the government scientists do agree on at least one more thing: the need to improve the quality of climate data gathered around the world, including in the United States, which has by far the planet’s biggest network of meteorological stations.
Mr. McIntyre is not alone in pointing out that the need to adjust and revise such data — with the attendant risk of mistakes — would be reduced with more care and consistency taken in collecting climate data.
The National Academy of Sciences has repeatedly called for improvements in climate monitoring. An independent group of meteorologists and weather buffs is compiling its own gallery of American weather stations at www.surfacestations.org, with photographs showing glaring problems, like thermometers placed next to asphalt runways and parking lots.
Dr. Lawrimore said that the government is preparing to build a climate reference network of more sophisticated, and consistent, monitoring stations that should cut uncertainty in gauging future trends.
In any case, he said, the evidence for human-driven warming remains robust. “Saying what they’re saying has just provided an opportunity for them to create doubt in people’s minds,” he said of the bloggers.
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RE: Global warming & McIntyre's data - 8/27/2007 6:41:10 PM   
cyberdude611


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Joined: 5/7/2006
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Again... not many people dispute that the globe is warming... that is not the debate... the debate is over what's the cause. Is man responsible? Or is it part of the normal warming and cooling cycles of the earth and sun that we may not have a complete understanding over? Or perhaps it is a combination of both?

NASA has said that the sun right now is the hottest and most active it has been in centuries and is currently going through a polar shift. This solar cycle will continue to cause the sun to be warmer than normal until at least 2012. And there is nothing we can do about it because we have no control over the sun's radiation output. It is so strong right now that ice is melting on Mars. If ice is melting there....isn't it obvious to assume that it will also melt some of the Earth's considering we are closer to the sun?

If it is a normal cycle of the earth, we can't do anything. There is nothing we can do. Eventually the earth will warm up and get hot. It's inevitable and scientists agree on that. And the fossil record suggents that the earth has warmed and cooled countless times throughout it's history.

And we are a blink of an eye in compared to the age of this planet. We don't have much understanding of what the earth does and what it is capable of doing. 150 years of data is not enough. This planet is 4.5 BILLION years old. And we are trying to make sweeping conclusions based on only 150 years of accurate data.

(in reply to thornhappy)
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RE: Global warming & McIntyre's data - 8/27/2007 6:44:20 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Cyberdude, you might even have a point if the only evidence for global warming came from increasing temperatures.  You have to explain the observed increase in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere that has accompanied the increase in temperatures.  And...you can't.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
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