Too Far? (Full Version)

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HalloweenWhite -> Too Far? (7/10/2005 4:20:09 PM)

I was wondering if the majority of submissives/slaves here thought that using someones allergies and/or phobias in play was going too far. Even too far to been deemed (Safe,Sane,Consentual) edge play. Im NOT talking about any allergies that could be fatal, like nut allergy, more like hey-fever,say or something along those lines. Something that causes irritation. And as regards phobias, again nothing that really destressed a sub or slave,just made them feel pretty uncomfortable. Any thoughts?. For example am I sick??.


HalloweenWhite.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 4:41:05 PM)

I love playing with fear, it can be the best thing ever for me.

Tying someone up can go too far, ANYTHING can go too far.

And IMO, just about anything can be done reasonably as well, including playing with phobias.

Only the individual can assess whether something has gone too far or not, that's why we stress adult consent.



MasterBenedict -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 4:53:43 PM)

I think that ANYTHING that might cause MY Slave to be
uncomfortable would be a WONDERFUL idea!



wednesday -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 4:56:14 PM)

I would say it depends on the phobia. If the fear is linked to some deep trauma, then my opinion would be that that is too far. If you're not ready for it and someone goes into a full panic attack, that can be very difficult to deal with. But if it's just something they've always been afraid of, it can be very liberating to face that fear and come out alive.

Allergy-wise... I personally wouldn't recommend it only because allergies are unstable. They weaken and intensify throughout our lives. Someone could tell you they're mildly allergic to something and then turn out to be violently allergic. Well okay I don't know if that applies to everyone but it's happened to me with a bunch of stuff and when I looked it up it said it's not entirely uncommon. [;)]



Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 5:36:50 PM)

I'm arachnaphobic (fear of spiders), and any play using this aspect of m personality would indeed be going too far.

As far as I'm concerned, playing with someone's deepest fears is an unpredictible thing, and shouldn't be indulged in for sport. Even experienced therapists can make a miscalculation in this area and set a patient back in their recovery.

I'm aware that some people feel that using BDSM as serious therapy for deep issues like abuse and phobias is an acceptable thing, and that's absolutely up to them...It's not something I'm comfortable with.

Cin



Lordandmaster -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 5:47:18 PM)

I have to say, I totally agree. I know many people who have used BDSM productively as a kind of therapy, but using spiders with someone who is arachnophobic is just insane. A dom must never take on a situation that is beyond his ability to handle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

I'm arachnaphobic (fear of spiders), and any play using this aspect of m personality would indeed be going too far.

As far as I'm concerned, playing with someone's deepest fears is an unpredictible thing, and shouldn't be indulged in for sport. Even experienced therapists can make a miscalculation in this area and set a patient back in their recovery.

I'm aware that some people feel that using BDSM as serious therapy for deep issues like abuse and phobias is an acceptable thing, and that's absolutely up to them...It's not something I'm comfortable with.




perverseangelic -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 6:08:02 PM)

There are degrees to which I'm ok pushing fear, and using it to play with, howeverI think it would be unproductive to do something that would break my trust in my partner.

For example--I used to have medical problems that caused me to be unable to get water in my ears (I used to have to wear earplugs when I showered, etc). Because of that, I've developed a SEVERE phobia of getting water in my ears and am apprehensive of just about anything else. (I know, it's a stupid phobia, but it doesn't seem to want to go away)

It is a supreme exercise in trust and fear to stay still while he nibbles/licks/play with my ears. It makes me scared, but doesn't -hurt- me. This is a -good- example of playing with a phobia. He doesn't do anything that would cause actual problems, but he plays right on the edge of what would. He never threatens to do something that would cause damage. Were he to tell me he was going to make me put my head under water without plugs, or pour water in my ears (god, I cringe just -typing- that) I would not be able to trust him. Whether or not he actually did it, I would have my trust in him hugely damaged. Even sugesting that he'd do it, to me, is too much. He knows how terrified it makes me. To sugest the act, is to me, as bad as doing the act. It's still using the fear in a harmful way.

I trust my partner not to hurt me. This includes mental hurt as well as physical. It would damage me to think that he would be willing to do something like put water in my ears. Even if he didn't 'really' mean to do it, causing me to think he would would do some serious damage to the trust we've built up.

quote:


I think that ANYTHING that might cause MY Slave to be
uncomfortable would be a WONDERFUL idea!


How 'bout cutting her arms off with a chainsaw? That'd make her pretty uncomfortable.



fp2012 -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 6:08:45 PM)

Hmm... interesting topic. As far as fears go, I would say it depends on the situation. I completely agree with Vancouver_cinful and Lordandmaster with regards to arachnophobia. I myself have limaxaphobia (fear of slugs) and if that was ever used in BDSM play I'd probably be traumatized. However if it's a lesser fear, and the person wants to try and get over it, I don't see any problem with using it against them. And if it goes too far the sub can always use his/her safeword to stop it.

As for allergies... if it's not hazardous to the person's health I don't see any problem with it. I just think that D/s is very sexual, and I'm not in a sexual mood if my nose is runny and eyes are watery. So it seems a bit pointless to me. But that's just my opinion



imtempting -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 6:09:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I have to say, I totally agree. I know many people who have used BDSM productively as a kind of therapy, but using spiders with someone who is arachnophobic is just insane. A dom must never take on a situation that is beyond his ability to handle.




Indeed I agree.



tigress31047 -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 6:17:29 PM)

I stopped talking to one Dom for the mere fact that when W/we were chatting one night , there was a bad thunderstorm and I mentioned that I was extremely afraid of lightning.( to the point where I can be found in the closet with the door shut so I can't see the flashes).. He continued to tell me how I "had better get over that" because the first time would be during a thunderstorm outside..That is going too far for me ... I stoppped the conversation immediatly..so yes .depending on the phobia and how bad the fear is it can be taken too far.



Gemeni -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 6:35:47 PM)

Just because you can.

Doesn't mean that you SHOULD.



Cahira -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 6:42:23 PM)

If an allergy is going to send someone in to a potential of anaphylatic shock its an obvious no.



Cahira -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 6:43:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBenedict

I think that ANYTHING that might cause MY Slave to be
uncomfortable would be a WONDERFUL idea!



I trust you woud know the line between uncomfortable and deadly or severlt traumatic.



CalliopePurple -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 7:15:27 PM)

I realized just how bad a fear of mine was during play with my ex-girlfriend. Point a blade at pretty much any part of my body and I'll be fine, but point a a blade at my hands and watch me freak out. I'm a writer and I love touching people and things - even the potential of having my hands being injured is a fast track to a panic attack.

If I didn't tell this to someone topping me, it would be my fault. If I told it and s/he ignored it, that would make me safeword instantly.



imtempting -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 7:17:42 PM)

Being an asthmatic anything to do with stopping my breathing or anything herb or plant related that affects my sinus is too far to me. Gags and things are ok but anything that cannot be controlled is too high of a risk.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 7:42:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

For example--I used to have medical problems that caused me to be unable to get water in my ears (I used to have to wear earplugs when I showered, etc). Because of that, I've developed a SEVERE phobia of getting water in my ears and am apprehensive of just about anything else. (I know, it's a stupid phobia, but it doesn't seem to want to go away)

Interesting sidebar- me too. I've had tubes in and out of my ears since I was 5. I still can't get water in them and I do still have anxiety and fears about them.



OsideGirl -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 7:43:55 PM)



Thank you Cahira. Our creed is to not cause "harm". Considering that some of my allergies can kill me, I find this a ridiculous question.

B~



Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 7:46:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

Being an asthmatic anything to do with stopping my breathing or anything herb or plant related that affects my sinus is too far to me. Gags and things are ok but anything that cannot be controlled is too high of a risk.


Wow, I'm impressed that you can even handle gags. I once suffered from sleep apnea (where your breathing actually stops during sleep), and after waking up a few times fighting for breath I panic at the thought of anything interfering with my breathing.

Both breath play and gags are hard limits for me.

Cin




Mylee -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 7:54:48 PM)

I have a horrible fear of spiders, it's beyond reasonable how much I fear them, to be honest, my Dom is the one I would run to to keep me 'safe' from a spider, the thought that a spider could be used by Him to induce fear, would be way to much for me I think I would crack have a huge panic attack then not trust Him agian for a long while

As for allergies, I have very sensitive skin, even some personal lubes can give me a rash..but if I had to pick between a rash or a spider, I'd take the rash

~my'lee



Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Too Far? (7/10/2005 7:56:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I have to say, I totally agree. I know many people who have used BDSM productively as a kind of therapy, but using spiders with someone who is arachnophobic is just insane. A dom must never take on a situation that is beyond his ability to handle.



I agree, BDSM can be very therapeutic, in and of itself. It definitely has been a big help in my life.

Through submission I learned to be assertive - which seems a contradiction in terms but I know people here will understand that.

It's also been invaluable in helping me over several body issues. I can walk around a public play party naked, and feel nothing but sheer pleasure.

I hesitate, however, to encourage its use as therapy tool. The human psyche is just too complex. And, as you say, a dominant must be careful not to take on more than he can handle and I think allergies and phobias fit into this.

It certianly is a powerful behaviour modification tool, isn't it?

Cin



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