Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (Full Version)

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gentlesurrender -> Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 6:20:38 AM)

Argh striking a balance between showing submissiveness online can be hard to demonstrate at times.

I’m a single mum, have a household to run, to survive and live I take responsibility, I make decisions. I am assertive, I am a disciplinarian, and I am opinionated. I have a strong character, which has been very much needed to survive the last four years.
On the other hand, I am a lousy housekeeper, struggle to keep on top of things. My self discipline is at times lacking. Think you get the picture.

But talking to Master’s/Dom’s they seem to take the line:-
My life doesn’t show I’m submissive.
Because I won’t do certain things online or cam I’m not submissive.
Or I show respect and respond to a strong dominant character, yes Sir, no Sir, and then I’m a doormat.

Do others have problems???
Do Dominants have problems in reverse – wanting to show a caring side that gets taken as a soft character who can’t dominate???



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 6:24:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gentlesurrender

Do others have problems???
Do Dominants have problems in reverse – wanting to show a caring side that gets taken as a soft character who can’t dominate???


It seems like those "doms" have a problem seeing how your capable responsible self could be used as an asset to them.

Their loss really.

And yes, dominants have that problem as well, not only from inside themselves not wanting to show "weakness" but from other subs who think showing those things is "undomly."

Problems when people make assumptions...

Continue to be yourself, it's the only way. Use your strong character to begin building your own schedule of discipline.



foxglove716 -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 6:35:32 AM)

It sounds like these doms are looking for you to fit into an unrealistic archetype.



subcheryl -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 6:35:52 AM)

Hi gentlesurrender, I never had online submission except in the searching experience, and I too would not cam or do things on the cam, after I got over the initial newness of self discovery and found out it was ok to set limits as to what you will do and won't do. I found this was a good way to find out who was wanting a real life experience or just an online and as I was looking for real life exchange, it was a good tool for me. And I beleive that it is a way of gaging those who are interested in the real you. I too am a single mom, having to be resposible for the running of a home, the care of minor children and bills and pets, the day to day living thing. Am submissive by nature and wanted a dom not afraid to take the reins and help me be the best I could be. In my mind I had visions of a Dom/Master of the nature of "me tarzan, you jane", and guess what? I am living with my Master, for almost 6 months now, and he is one some would consider a soft Dom/Master. He works for me and I couldn't be happier. Sometimes in the garden of life you just have to keep pulling the "weeds" to find the fruit of your patience and dedication to your ideas of what works for you. Wish you the best in your journey here and that you find the Dom/Master that fits you the best.



DesertRat -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 6:35:54 AM)

I think the only problem is that you haven't yet met someone who "gets" you...someone with whom the communication/chemistry is right...someone who 'sees your point'. It doesn't necessarily mean the doms are dumb, although expecting online and/or webcam performances right off the bat could indicate IQ deficiencies.

As for the second question: Yes, I have had that happen, but only a little bit. Never worried about it. I need to be accepted for who I am and if I conform to any shallow stereotype...hard, uncaring BastardDom, for example...I won't be.

Bob



Kiaban -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 7:05:46 AM)

I have run into this problem occasionally. Some subs tend to think if you have a great sense of humor you can't possibly be strict as well..its ok though the ones worth having find out the most about you before making judgements.
Just be you that should always be good enough.



LadyShoshin -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 7:39:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gentlesurrender

Argh striking a balance between showing submissiveness online can be hard to demonstrate at times.

I’m a single mum, have a household to run, to survive and live I take responsibility, I make decisions. I am assertive, I am a disciplinarian, and I am opinionated. I have a strong character, which has been very much needed to survive the last four years.
On the other hand, I am a lousy housekeeper, struggle to keep on top of things. My self discipline is at times lacking. Think you get the picture.

But talking to Master’s/Dom’s they seem to take the line:-
My life doesn’t show I’m submissive.
Because I won’t do certain things online or cam I’m not submissive.
Or I show respect and respond to a strong dominant character, yes Sir, no Sir, and then I’m a doormat.

Do others have problems???
Do Dominants have problems in reverse – wanting to show a caring side that gets taken as a soft character who can’t dominate???



As a submissive I had a response for online Doms - "If you want to control my real time, be IN my real time."

The Doms who tell you that you aren't submissive because ........ are caught up in the fantasy world and what they mean is you aren't conforming to their stereotyped fantasy of a submissive.

You are what your heart tells you that you are, not what some distant fellow who is typing one handed thinks.

I wish you well on your search and don't let the bastards grind you down.



Gemeni -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 8:33:35 AM)

I look at an overview of people.

The basics need to align, and have the majority of the philosophy on the same page.

Friends first gives time to find these things out with little pressure. Having too many upfront expectations does not.



ProtagonistLily -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 8:36:31 AM)

quote:

Argh striking a balance between showing submissiveness online can be hard to demonstrate at times.

I’m a single mum, have a household to run, to survive and live I take responsibility, I make decisions. I am assertive, I am a disciplinarian, and I am opinionated. I have a strong character, which has been very much needed to survive the last four years.
On the other hand, I am a lousy housekeeper, struggle to keep on top of things. My self discipline is at times lacking. Think you get the picture.

But talking to Master’s/Dom’s they seem to take the line:-
My life doesn’t show I’m submissive.
Because I won’t do certain things online or cam I’m not submissive.
Or I show respect and respond to a strong dominant character, yes Sir, no Sir, and then I’m a doormat.

Do others have problems???
Do Dominants have problems in reverse – wanting to show a caring side that gets taken as a soft character who can’t dominate???


Interesting topic. Even when I was looking, I never felt the need to 'act' submissive to just anyone, either on the Internet or in the real life scene. I've always been a strong female and willing to be assertive where appropriate. And if you hadn't noticed, I can be a tad opinionated as well.

When I met my Sir, it was at a munch. I don't go to munches and act any differantly than I do in any other aspect of my life. I don't feel like I need to "act" submissive just because I'm in the presence of other lifestylers. I am A Submissive. That means any number of things...the traits of a submissive are as varied as the traits of a Dominant. What it means to me is I am not the one who, in a power exchange relationship, is the one in control. To me, it also means I am a bottom in an S/M context. It does not, however, mean I'm some wilting doormat to any Tom, Dick, or Harry who chooses to call himself Dominant.

I didn't relate to Sir right off the bat as a submissive. In fact, I don't think I related to him in a D/s context at all. We simply sat near each other and had a conversation. He attests that what initially attracted him was my vivacious personality. Had I gotten into "Sub" mode, I doubt that vivacity would have shown through.

I am a submissive sexually, and specifically to my Sir. This means that to anyone else, D/s or vanilla, my behavior should be appropriate to the level of relationship I have with someone. It doesn't mean I'm required to be submissive to just anyone.

Hon, if I can give you any words of wisdom, they are be yourself. Any ol' Dom won't do. You want to attract the right one for you, and if you are deviating from who and what you are intrinisically, that search could go on for a lot longer than you want.

All the best,
Lily



OsideGirl -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 8:40:59 AM)

Okay...

A) you're a sub, not their sub.

B) Just because someone has proclaimed themselves to be a Dominant, doesn't mean they are. And even then, would you be submissive to every Dominant in the world?

C) Respect is earned, not demanded. Until then they're just snerts.

D) It's online for chrissakes....until that person has interacted with you in person, they really having no frickin clue whether you are submissive or not.



krikket -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 9:03:27 AM)

i've had the same problem -- it's difficult to show what's inside me, and most don't seem to want to find out. i don't submit just for the heck of it. It's a big part of who i am, but so is the mom, office manager, etc. i have 3 boys -- i know the tricks that can be played, can usually spot those who might talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. my assertiveness is also compounded by my age, being well over 50, i know i don't fit the picture of the typical sub/slave.. it's not easy..sometimes i feel like just tossing in the towel, but i'm still here -- not so much looking for a partner to belong to anymore but a place where i'll be accepted for what i am, and who i am -- hopefully.




gentlesurrender -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 11:56:53 AM)

thank you all for your answers

and i will continue to be myself, i cant be any other way, and if a Dom doesnt like the way i am it wouldnt work anyway. Im not looking to submit online, for me thats way too frustrating and i need the personal interaction.

its more trying to get over the assumptions that are being made before you get a chance to get into more indepth conversations.

With regard to chemistry, even though you can connect online, that doesnt necessarily mean that will continue on into realtime, which is why i avoid submitting online or the expectations lose perspective.




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 12:00:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: krikket
i know i don't fit the picture of the typical sub/slave..

Actually you do.

You don't fit into the fantasy/stereoptyical picture of a typical slave.



Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 1:13:39 PM)

I think everyone here has said everthing. Great responses from everyone!

I don't do cams, don't do long distance, and don't do online or phone submission (unless we have a real life relationship, and then these things can be fun!). I just don't feel it's worth my time to do this if they can't be bothered to get off their damn computer chairs and meet and get to know me as a human being.

I love this:

quote:

As a submissive I had a response for online Doms - "If you want to control my real time, be IN my real time."
- Lady Shoshin, that's a great response!

Cin



MsIncognito -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 2:43:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gentlesurrender

Argh striking a balance between showing submissiveness online can be hard to demonstrate at times.



Maybe cut the online games and actually get out and meet people in real life? That would solve that problem.



ProtagonistLily -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 3:47:36 PM)

quote:

Okay...

A) you're a sub, not their sub.

B) Just because someone has proclaimed themselves to be a Dominant, doesn't mean they are. And even then, would you be submissive to every Dominant in the world?

C) Respect is earned, not demanded. Until then they're just snerts.

D) It's online for chrissakes....until that person has interacted with you in person, they really having no frickin clue whether you are submissive or not.


Ahh...a kindred spirit. Welcome!

Lily



gentlesurrender -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 5:38:03 PM)

well that was a huge assumption

thanks, i attend munches, i have been to fet parties and clubs and i know many within the scene across the country. I was also married to a dominant for a short while, so please dont assume this lifestyle isnt real.

being a single parent i dont get out a great deal, not as regularly as i might like, so my main source of talking to dominants is online, chatting isnt a game as far as im concerned, being asked to perform online is, which is why as i said above i avoid it.



MstrssPassion -> RE: Submission - Assertiveness v Doormat (7/12/2005 6:11:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gentlesurrender

being a single parent i dont get out a great deal, not as regularly as i might like, so my main source of talking to dominants is online, chatting isnt a game as far as im concerned, being asked to perform online is, which is why as i said above i avoid it.


I hear ya there... I am a parent as well. I also have a full time partner. We rarely get out (about once a month). We find a few moments here & there for a little "us time" yet this way of life is very real for us. We do not need to be dressed in full fetish & at a munch/party to be real about this either.

quote:

Do Dominants have problems in reverse – wanting to show a caring side that gets taken as a soft character who can’t dominate???


You asked this in your original post...

Yes I have been faced with statements such as this. "Oh, you are too nice to be a Domme". My reply, " I am not here to behave or perform by your own set standards, besides being a raging bitch is such a waste of energy. It would be better well spent seducing or ravishing my next victim..... with a smile on my face!!!!"

Don't let those 'Lord High & Mighty Domly-Doms' worry you. Their only real power/command is that of their keyboard & would most likely not be able to live up to your standards.

BTW... many dominants admire assertive, confident & responsible multi-taskers such as yourself. These types as you have had issues with... well they are just insecure fools.

MstrssPassion




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