RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 10:16:11 AM)

Most men accomplish this through burping & farting.

Male tantrums & or depressive episodes from playoff lossess, March Madness elimination, or bad luck in draft lotteries usually result in an "awakening" for most high minded, sexy, cosmopolitan women.



SusanofO -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 10:26:43 AM)

I want to be clear I like it that Dominants are willing to help submissives (or just that people are willing to help their partners). I guess in a BDSM context that tendency can lean toward dysfunctional for some people (and maybe for almost anyone, at one time or another).  And I was simply asking how people would differentiate when that is happening - and what they'd do about it.

As e01n mentioned, I'm not in favor of eliminating this charming quality some Doms have of wanting to help subs either - I don't think it's  always bad - or even generally bad.

I was just asking when it becomes a problem or when it descends into the realm of the "'dysfunctional". I do believe communication can help - but sometimes not, if it's a really strong trait in someone and they cannot differentiate between helping and compulsive rescuing.

And people are answering, and I appreciate it. Thanks for the replies. Hope we get more, too.



came4U -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 10:30:29 AM)

I agree with Celtic's analogy of the swimmer/drowning person.

to add: (in regards to the damsel in distress)

Give enough rope, something finite and bouyant (advice) and stand back.  Don't jump in, and do be prepared to kick the drowning person off of you or you both will go down.

Bob, again, you go on and on about personal issues and bring up how it/we/them/us/whoever has made an issue about your postings.  They are frankly back and forth ideals, your wanting of a gal in distress early on and now, less so? 

quote:

Another thought crossed my mind.

I've noticed a number of individuals here are more than willing to thrash any male d/m who even hints at a complaint he might have. I was told repeatedly how "unbecoming" it is for a male master to "whine".

Seems ot me this feeds right into the "male dom to the rescue" icon, as it tries to claim that male masters/doms suck it up and keep going with never a complaint: the strong silent type.

Totally invalidates the idea that male doms are people too, that they, like anyone else, can have grievances, and that they, like anyone else, has a right to air those grievances.

Seems to me this sets up a double-standard, where females subs can complain and be 'rescued', while any male dom who complains should not be relied upon during a difficult situation because he "whines".


if you ask me, as I said oh probably 70 posts ago, that you are the Dom in distress in need of the low self-esteemer to save you from your sorrow.  I cannot tolerate a Dom in distress syndome, I have no patience for it (BOBviously).

Not even going to mention the earlier comments in this thread about women's liberation.  Your ideals on that flip flop around also. 




Bobkgin -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 10:37:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Empower is a good ord to remmeber. is what any "rescuing" someone is doing going to be empowering?



I think the word "rescue" is taking on a life of its own.

When I help someone, I am empowering them to get on with their lives. I am providing them with information, insight and advice which they can use to resolve their difficulties (and any future difficulties of a similar nature) and move on.

I am not there to replace their judgment, only to provide them with information that they can use.

The problem is still theirs, and they are still the ones to resolve it.

Now with someone who has given herself to me as my slave, it is somewhat different. In that situation I've been asked to make the decisions that affect her life, and I've accepted the responsibilities that go with it. Should she experience difficulties, it is my responsibility to resolve it whenever she cannot.

To not do so would be a betrayal of the trust she's placed in me.
This might be considered empowering if we recognize it is her desire to serve well, and the difficulty was preventing that. With the resolution of the difficulty, she can continue to do what she wishes to do: serve me.



SusanofO -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 10:38:10 AM)

cloudboy:  I appreciate the candor as well as the comic relief and actual profundity (really) of your reply. You are right (at least in Football season, and I can't help it if I think so) Your post was food for thought. [:)] [:D]

Bobkgin: I agree with your ideas - empowering is a more helpful notion, probably. It can take some awhile, IMO, to "get there" if someone is trying to empower them - but that I guess is where patience or not having super-high expectations of someone might come in, IMO - especially maybe someone who is used to being "enabled" instead.

I appreciated as well Ocilla's referring to the notion of "empowering" vs. "rescuing". To me, it helps differentiate enabling vs. helping someone. And also the notion in that post about contributors vs. intentional (in a destructive and-or dysfunctional way) relationships. 
 
 


- Susan



Bobkgin -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 10:48:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

I agree with Celtic's analogy of the swimmer/drowning person.

to add: (in regards to the damsel in distress)

Give enough rope, something finite and bouyant (advice) and stand back.  Don't jump in, and do be prepared to kick the drowning person off of you or you both will go down.

Bob, again, you go on and on about personal issues and bring up how it/we/them/us/whoever has made an issue about your postings.  They are frankly back and forth ideals, your wanting of a gal in distress early on and now, less so? 

quote:

Another thought crossed my mind.

I've noticed a number of individuals here are more than willing to thrash any male d/m who even hints at a complaint he might have. I was told repeatedly how "unbecoming" it is for a male master to "whine".

Seems ot me this feeds right into the "male dom to the rescue" icon, as it tries to claim that male masters/doms suck it up and keep going with never a complaint: the strong silent type.

Totally invalidates the idea that male doms are people too, that they, like anyone else, can have grievances, and that they, like anyone else, has a right to air those grievances.

Seems to me this sets up a double-standard, where females subs can complain and be 'rescued', while any male dom who complains should not be relied upon during a difficult situation because he "whines".


if you ask me, as I said oh probably 70 posts ago, that you are the Dom in distress in need of the low self-esteemer to save you from your sorrow.  I cannot tolerate a Dom in distress syndome, I have no patience for it (BOBviously).

Not even going to mention the earlier comments in this thread about women's liberation.  Your ideals on that flip flop around also. 



I could simply point anyone inquisitive enough to check your statements against what I said.

That would resolve the question quite nicely.

Not only am I not a master in distress, I am not in need of someone with low self-esteem.

However, not being in need of such an individual has not prevented me from helping many who suffered from that affliction.

I could also challenge you for references where I allegedly "flip flop" over the equality of the genders.

None exist, and none will be forthcoming from you.

This is yet another example of stereotyping for political purposes.

Caveat emptor
 
Anyone can make self-serving accusations. My posts are on record for anyone to review.

Each individual can render their own verdict on the matter simply by reviewing what I've said.



SusanofO -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 10:50:38 AM)

Please, I am asking ya'll to empower me here - no fighting on this thread. Thanks for cooperation in advance.

- Susan



chellekitty -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 10:51:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Thanks for making my point, Chelle.

If I talk from first hand knowledge, I'm called a "martyr". If I talk in generalities, I am criticized for not using first hand knowledge.

The need to stereotype for political purposes never ends.


would you like me to specifically point out what i was referencing...you are further proving my point with this response...if you didn't want to prove my point you would have not responded...theres this little cliche in AA that i like...poor me, poor me, pour me another drink...theres only so long you can sit on your pitty pot before people are going to tell you to shit or get off...if you don't like how people are responding to you, change or change who you are talking to...simple psych 101 Bob....



chellekitty -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 10:53:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Please, I am asking ya'll to empower me here - no fighting on this thread. Thanks for cooperation in advance.

- Susan


sorry if you take what i am saying as fighting, i see it as being honest...if you wrap people in bubble wrap, they don't find out how much it hurts to fall down and they think its fine to fall and eventually all the bubbles pop and it hurts...and they are shocked and mad at you...



Bobkgin -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 10:58:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Thanks for making my point, Chelle.

If I talk from first hand knowledge, I'm called a "martyr". If I talk in generalities, I am criticized for not using first hand knowledge.

The need to stereotype for political purposes never ends.


would you like me to specifically point out what i was referencing...



I await your evidence.



SusanofO -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 11:01:08 AM)

Not aimed at anyone in particular. Just a comment (more of a plea really)...Just side-step it - and Bobkgin: I don't think anyone is necessarily taking issue with stuff you've said - I do think you are taking what may well be general comments personally, though. It's gonna end up hi-jacking the thread - please don't do it, I beg you.

- Susan



Bobkgin -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 11:01:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Please, I am asking ya'll to empower me here - no fighting on this thread. Thanks for cooperation in advance.

- Susan


sorry if you take what i am saying as fighting, i see it as being honest...if you wrap people in bubble wrap, they don't find out how much it hurts to fall down and they think its fine to fall and eventually all the bubbles pop and it hurts...and they are shocked and mad at you...



Susan, those who are obsessed with me acknowledge no authority above their obsession.

It would appear they are determined to wreck any thread where they feel threatened by exposure.

Hopefully yours will not be amongst them, but given the comments from them thus far, I doubt it.

Just remember, they're not -my- friends. [;)]



SusanofO -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 11:03:00 AM)

How does this relate to the topic, though? Is is football season getting to people early?

- Susan



ocilla -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 11:03:44 AM)

Still a fan!  So succinct and saucy. love it!
quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

I agree with Celtic's analogy of the swimmer/drowning person.

to add: (in regards to the damsel in distress)

Give enough rope, something finite and bouyant (advice) and stand back.  Don't jump in, and do be prepared to kick the drowning person off of you or you both will go down.

Bob, again, you go on and on about personal issues and bring up how it/we/them/us/whoever has made an issue about your postings.  They are frankly back and forth ideals, your wanting of a gal in distress early on and now, less so? 

quote:

Another thought crossed my mind.

I've noticed a number of individuals here are more than willing to thrash any male d/m who even hints at a complaint he might have. I was told repeatedly how "unbecoming" it is for a male master to "whine".

Seems ot me this feeds right into the "male dom to the rescue" icon, as it tries to claim that male masters/doms suck it up and keep going with never a complaint: the strong silent type.

Totally invalidates the idea that male doms are people too, that they, like anyone else, can have grievances, and that they, like anyone else, has a right to air those grievances.

Seems to me this sets up a double-standard, where females subs can complain and be 'rescued', while any male dom who complains should not be relied upon during a difficult situation because he "whines".


if you ask me, as I said oh probably 70 posts ago, that you are the Dom in distress in need of the low self-esteemer to save you from your sorrow.  I cannot tolerate a Dom in distress syndome, I have no patience for it (BOBviously).

Not even going to mention the earlier comments in this thread about women's liberation.  Your ideals on that flip flop around also. 





Bobkgin -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 11:05:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Not aimed at anyone in particular. Just a comment (more of a plea really)...Just side-step it - and Bobkgin: I don't think anyone is taking issue with stuff you;ve said - I do think you are taking whatmay well be general comments personally, though. It's gonna end up hi-jacking the thread - please don't do it, I beg you.

- Susan


Susan, methinks thou dost protest too much on the matter of me taking it personally.

I've addressed it once. Need I address it every time you feel the need to tell me this topic is not directed at me?

As for those few comments which were obviously personal (SimplyMichael, Chelle, Came4u), well, you'd have to be blind not to see they were addressed to me.



Bobkgin -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 11:09:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

How does this relate to the topic, though?
- Susan


You don't see it?

These are your "white knights", charging to the "rescue" of all collarchat to "save" them from the 'fake wannabe dom in distress who is looking for low self-esteem subs': allegedly me.

Couldn't be more on topic than to have a real-time example of the problem you've described in your OP.



SusanofO -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 11:17:44 AM)

Bobkgin: Well not if everyone doesn't see you as somehow fake. I see you as a contributor to the thread. But I would really prefer to not not let the thread be side-tracked discussing you specifically.

I don't believe I misunderstand you, and I am pretty sure there are other people here who don't. But I would prefer to put the topic in more general terms - if that is alright with you. Is it? Personally, petty bickering is one of my all-time #1 pet peeves. But I have to be going in a minute - so if it keeps up, I won't be here to watch anyway. I have an appointment.

- Susan



Grlwithboy -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 11:19:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

How does this relate to the topic, though?
- Susan


You don't see it?

These are your "white knights", charging to the "rescue" of all collarchat to "save" them from the 'fake wannabe dom in distress who is looking for low self-esteem subs': allegedly me.

Couldn't be more on topic than to have a real-time example of the problem you've described in your OP.


This is what you get from this thread? How's the temp up there, what with us revolving around you and all?




Mercnbeth -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 11:20:11 AM)

There is more than a semantic difference when the reference is to a 'white' knight versus a knight. One is a billboard, needing to advertise his grandeur and status by donning the 'white' sheet. Who knows what is below it, or if his self advertised status is earned. Look behind the billboard and you see not only its lack of depth. The knight's shiny white suit only indicates that his primary concern is his 'whiteness'. His whiteness stands out but is not outstanding. The need to reconfirm his whiteness is regularly required because without constant attention and reference the whiteness fades in the face of present action and self contradiction. The white knight serves only his whiteness. It's not a syndrome - but it can be a terminal disease should anyone be influenced by the facade.

Is there strength or cowardice indicated "rescuing" the weak while cowering from a challenge? It would be as if the 'white' knight waited until the dragon was done and he "rescued" the damsel's burnt bones being sure not to get any soot on his suit.

A Dominant doesn't need a suit of any kind or type. A Dominant is at his best  naked. He has no "white knight" syndrome because his goal isn't to rescue it is to compliment. Once that complimentary partner is found the Dominant and the submissive form a stronger partnership that in fact 'rescued' them both. Most of the time in obtaining that goal they are both anything but "white".






SusanofO -> RE: How do Dominants keep "White Knight" syndrome in check? (9/5/2007 11:22:42 AM)

What a wonderful post Mercnbeth, thanks.

- Susan



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