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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/17/2005 8:22:04 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadisticPrincess
I have observed that there is a lot more of the parent/child dynamic in male top relationships, rather than female dominated ones. Does anyone else observe that too?

I do. In fact, I started a thread about this in Ask A Mistress entitled Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes?

- LA

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 1:10:01 AM

lonewolf05

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ok. i went through the thread Ya mentioned. from what little i can make heads or tails of,....
it consists of the domme doing something to help a boy that wants to make changes....
and not a domme looking for a little bird with a broken wing.

hmm
got an issue with this.
especially since "I" have NO outside desires to make any changes in MY life. i am not a ride a bike person, nor do i go hunting and camping and fishing and whatever else in hell someone dreams up.
i am quite content and happy to stay the hell at home where i want to be. i do not have any desires to become corporate head or be some fancy smancy college boy.
nope. not me. so i guess? "I" am not the bird with a broken wing, since i fly my way, alone.
and i am not the one that a domme can help do things coz i don't wanna DO anything.
my 1st MS said if i wanted to i could take classes for whatever if it made me happy. i told Her hell no. i am too old to go back to school and i hated school the first time through. i have no damn intention of ever changing me inside.
i like just being the houseboy domestic and it is all i care about.
just because this new filly i am to see is interested in wanting me to grasp touchy feely has no bearing on what "I" want.
i will listen to Her. i will try to learn touchy feely. but i do not want to be a different person other than as i am.

so i guess i am a real putz to the upper class peoples. well? i do not care.
you all go out and ride your new bikes and go to the health clubs and do whatever you wanna do. leave me at home and let me take care of the house and yards coz i do not want to leave the driveway.

if i got anyone upset here, over this. i am kinda sorry. sorry you got upset, but not sorry that i am not changing to match someone else's life. i like being a recluse and i am going to stay one.

wolf

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 4:43:33 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05
ok. i went through the thread Ya mentioned. from what little i can make heads or tails of,....
it consists of the domme doing something to help a boy that wants to make changes....
and not a domme looking for a little bird with a broken wing.

Actually, though I can't say I completely understand the point of your post, I believe you were trying to reinforce the fact that you don't want a parent.

When I refered that thread to SadisticPrincess, it was in response to her asking

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadisticPrincess
I have observed that there is a lot more of the parent/child dynamic in male top relationships, rather than female dominated ones. Does anyone else observe that too?

Therefore, your post, if I understood it correctly, reinforced both SP & my's observation, but from the submissive male perspective.

- LA

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 6:36:29 AM

Faramir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Take a deep breath, take a walk around the block and reflect before you post.

- LA

As I sometimes have to tell my foster children: "I can't hear you when you speak to me that way."

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Post #: 44

RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 7:47:46 AM

sudja

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: sudja

quote:

ORIGINAL: Davesgirl

So...my query to everyone here...Does Dominance = Parenting? THe discipline, structure, the punishments.....What are ya'lls thoguhts on this, if you dont mind sharing, please

I don't need a parent.

sudja

Well aren't you fucking special, sunshine.

Actually Faramir, she is. I've known sudja online for quite sometime now and I have to say I find her to be quite brilliant and wonderful.

And for the record, sudja was talking from the first person, which makes it her opinion. Flaming her was not only distasteful and unnecessary, but also goes directly against the TOS.

- LA

Thank you, LA, and others who commented. :)

I had missed this continuation.

I'll also note that Faramir failed to quote my very first line, "Not for me/us," which prefaced all my thoughts. Selective quoting at its lowest.

sudja

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 9:16:00 AM

Faramir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sudja

Thank you, LA, and others who commented. :)

I had missed this continuation.

I'll also note that Faramir failed to quote my very first line, "Not for me/us," which prefaced all my thoughts. Selective quoting at its lowest.

sudja

Of course I selectively quote - the whole point of highlighting the your smug, insulting comment was to highlight your smug, unecessary comment. The rest of the post was fine.

Poly doesn't work for you? Fab - no need to throw in, "Some of us don't need multiple partners to be satisfied."

Into SM but not D/s? Fab - no reason to toss in "I for one don't need someone to tell me what to do."

You can be mad at me for being such an abrasive asshole. You can pat yourself on the back that your "forum friends" think you are so special. You can try and hide behind an aegis - "I'm only talking for myself when I say I have contempt for other people and admire myself."

None of that has any bearing on the smug shittiness of what you said. That was a crappy, self-congratulaotry and disrespectful line to have snuck in. Minus it - your post is fine. With it, your post is offesive.

And here you are defending soemthing lousy - actually you aren't - you're defending yourself, because you cannot defend the sentiment you expressed.

If it just sliped out - if you look back and think, "I didn't really need to say that" than a simple retraction would be in order. The hardest fucking words in the English language: "I was wrong."

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 9:31:35 AM

Leonidas

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Your master is using the only comparable relationship with which he is familliar to try to understand what you are asking of him. There isn't a common name and concept in modern western culture for a relationship where one adult is under the discipline of another. If those kinds of relations were common, and had a name, your master wouldn't have to resort to using parenting as an analogy.

The most important respect in which parenting (responsible parenting, at least) and slave ownership are different is that children are not in the service of their parents. They are under the discipline and control of their parents (hopefully) but the object isn't to make them better servants of the parents. They are being prepared by their parents for independant adulthood. Slaves, like children, are (hopefully) under the discipline and control of their owners, but it's not parenting. They aren't being prepared for independance from their owners. They are being made more valuable slaves by being taught to better fulfill wishes of their owners. The means and methods are indeed similar to parenting in some respects, but very different in other respects, because the aim is very different. Parenting is just a handy analogy for the process, because slave ownership is uncommon in our culture.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/18/2005 9:43:56 AM >

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 9:36:14 AM

Faramir

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Leonidas, your reply covers some cases, but there are people who genuinely are doing some version of parenting in D/s - they aren't using a "handy analogy," - they are little girls interacting with a person who is in a parenting role.

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 9:38:39 AM

Leonidas

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Well, again, define "parenting role". To me responsible parenting is teaching a child how to stand on their own feet, and ultimately become independant from you. If you have a "parenting fetish" where you play parent and child because it's gratifying, that's alright, I suppose, but it's not really parenting, is it?

Too, I wasn't really trying to address every case. I was addressing the specific case of the OP.

< Message edited by ModeratorSix -- 7/18/2005 10:47:45 AM >

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 10:50:21 AM

Davesgirl

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Leonidas, Thank you! You addressed my question perfectly, realizing I wasnt asking about age play of any sort. Not to say that age play is a bad thing..Hell, whatever makes people happy, run with it.

It is refreshing to know that my Master isnt entirely off either, for not knowing how else to reference iot within his mind. We dont relate to each other on a parent/child level, we are both adults and communicate in all ways as such. But I was taken aback when he said what he did, about treating me like a child. And it made me wonder if there were some similarities between dominance and parenting. And its always nice to know Im not strange or some sort of freak for my needs and feelings either.

Thanks again, to Leonidas and everyone else who has offered their thoughts

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 12:27:07 PM

lonewolf05

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Lady Angelika;

what i was trying to get at, is it said in here somewhere, that dommes do not want to have a boy with problems, nor do they wish to be involved with one with no interests outside the lifestyle.

so
i said
that i am not a broken wing bird, but i am not also, one with outside interests.
i only care to serve. to be at the house.
i am a recluse. i do not want to leave the driveway.
i guess my ideas of writing and someone else's is still too vastly different.
wolf

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 12:46:34 PM

ShiftedJewel

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quote:

what i was trying to get at, is it said in here somewhere, that dommes do not want to have a boy with problems, nor do they wish to be involved with one with no interests outside the lifestyle.

so
i said
that i am not a broken wing bird, but i am not also, one with outside interests.
i only care to serve. to be at the house.
i am a recluse. i do not want to leave the driveway.
i guess my ideas of writing and someone else's is still too vastly different.
wolf

Admittedly I have not read all of this thread but this sparked my attention. I enjoy quite a bit outside the lifestyle but in reality I am just a recluse as well. I enjoy staying at home, I don't go to sporting events and things like that, if I am really interested in one I'll turn on one of the televisions that just collect dust around here. We do go on rides on our bike when we can and to some biker events... once or twice a year, and the occasional play in Cincinnati but for the most part, I/we really just love being at home.

As far as Dominance=parenting goes... gosh, I hope not.. I know I've used it as an example when talking about poly relationships, but only to make it clear that it is possible to take direction from two (Dominant) people living in the same home. I've raised my kids and I'm done. As far as I'm concerned, I look for people (submissives) that can work well without direction. If I tell a submissive to paint a wall a certain color, I don't want to have to tell them where the wall ends and the ceiling begins. I'm beginning to think that lonewolf05 has it right...maybe I am looking for service first and foremost.

Jewel

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 1:46:38 PM

Gemeni

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I'm more of the mindset of the last two posters in the dynamics I enjoy.

Competent service is very attractive to me. Well worth the investment in the returns it gives. Nursemaid a child is not terribly attractive, when viewed in that context of desire. I'm simply too old,and too busy to micromanage someone who doesn't have their act together.

I think Leonidas said it best in this thread. There are components that resemble parenting-but they are superficial. We simply do the needed investment to help our servants to serve us better.

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 1:56:25 PM

Faramir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

Well, again, define "parenting role". To me responsible parenting is teaching a child how to stand on their own feet, and ultimately become independant from you.

You've never had a developmentally disabled child.

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 4:37:14 PM

SadisticPrincess

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Do you *know* that the person who posted never had a developmentally disabled child or other relation? And how does that address the point of this thread?

Thanks, Lady A for the link to your earlier thread on Pygmalion, it was started before I entered the forum here.

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 7:34:38 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadisticPrincess
Thanks, Lady A for the link to your earlier thread on Pygmalion, it was started before I entered the forum here.

My pleasure. Hang around here long enough and you'll have your own live collarchat archive directory in your head too ;)

- LA

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 9:23:36 PM

lonewolf05

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

what i was trying to get at, is it said in here somewhere, that dommes do not want to have a boy with problems, nor do they wish to be involved with one with no interests outside the lifestyle.

so
i said
that i am not a broken wing bird, but i am not also, one with outside interests.
i only care to serve. to be at the house.
i am a recluse. i do not want to leave the driveway.
i guess my ideas of writing and someone else's is still too vastly different.
wolf

Admittedly I have not read all of this thread but this sparked my attention. I enjoy quite a bit outside the lifestyle but in reality I am just a recluse as well. I enjoy staying at home, I don't go to sporting events and things like that, if I am really interested in one I'll turn on one of the televisions that just collect dust around here. We do go on rides on our bike when we can and to some biker events... once or twice a year, and the occasional play in Cincinnati but for the most part, I/we really just love being at home.

As far as Dominance=parenting goes... gosh, I hope not.. I know I've used it as an example when talking about poly relationships, but only to make it clear that it is possible to take direction from two (Dominant) people living in the same home. I've raised my kids and I'm done. As far as I'm concerned, I look for people (submissives) that can work well without direction. If I tell a submissive to paint a wall a certain color, I don't want to have to tell them where the wall ends and the ceiling begins. I'm beginning to think that lonewolf05 has it right...maybe I am looking for service first and foremost.

Jewel

======================

quote:

As far as I'm concerned, I look for people (submissives) that can work well without direction. If I tell a submissive to paint a wall a certain color, I don't want to have to tell them where the wall ends and the ceiling begins.

I'm beginning to think that lonewolf05 has it right...maybe I am looking for service first and foremost.

Jewel

======================

i do not know right or wrong here. i only know, "I" prefer service tom the getting involved aspect. maybe..SOME day if a relationship developed? but i only want to serve FIRST. from the WAY i see many posts,..it would SEEM maybe want the involvement FIRST and service LATER.

so i have argued my case til i can't anymore.
if YOU seek a-boy, FOR service, because You NEED service, that is way cool.
from july 04 to july 05.........1st left Ms 1 to now going to Ms 2. 1 year apart. it is NOT easy for us boys to find 'a' Ms looking FOR service.
many profiles "I" personally see talk of involvement FIRST.
good luck to You. i know of a few on this board i would recommend to You.

the wolf......i am off tuesday to go to wisconsin to my new Ms..........

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/18/2005 10:37:18 PM

CalliopePurple

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Best of luck, wolf. We might not share similar points of view, but I like seeing what you have to say about things and it helps me understand people that aren't as emotional as I am.

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/19/2005 7:57:15 AM

sudja

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: sudja

Thank you, LA, and others who commented. :)

I had missed this continuation.

I'll also note that Faramir failed to quote my very first line, "Not for me/us," which prefaced all my thoughts. Selective quoting at its lowest.

sudja

Of course I selectively quote - the whole point of highlighting the your smug, insulting comment was to highlight your smug, unecessary comment. The rest of the post was fine.

The entire post was fine, but for your now apparently intentionally misleading snip.

quote:

Poly doesn't work for you? Fab - no need to throw in, "Some of us don't need multiple partners to be satisfied."

Sure doesn't - does work for many folks I know however, and not of one of them has ever heard me say anything like the above, nor, no matter how much you want to try and justify your original response have any of my posts been analogous to that form of response.

quote:

Into SM but not D/s? Fab - no reason to toss in "I for one don't need someone to tell me what to do."

Ditto.

quote:

You can be mad at me for being such an abrasive asshole. You can pat yourself on the back that your "forum friends" think you are so special. You can try and hide behind an aegis - "I'm only talking for myself when I say I have contempt for other people and admire myself."

Why would I be angry with you? That would suggest your thoughts have some value to me. You've already proven there is little reason to consider them of value since you choose to discuss what you wish to see; not what is there, not the substance of the topic.

quote:

None of that has any bearing on the smug shittiness of what you said. That was a crappy, self-congratulaotry and disrespectful line to have snuck in. Minus it - your post is fine. With it, your post is offesive.

Project much?

quote:

And here you are defending soemthing lousy - actually you aren't - you're defending yourself, because you cannot defend the sentiment you expressed.

Sure can - it is very defensible. Parent/child is not the dynamic for me. It does not make sense for me, or my life. The OP asked what people thought - I shared my thoughts. You have shared, well.... your inability to engage in cogent discussion without turning nasty and abusive. (Which could lead to a "What qualities make a good Master" thread..... and I doubt you'd like my opinion there either.)

quote:

If it just sliped out - if you look back and think, "I didn't really need to say that" than a simple retraction would be in order. The hardest fucking words in the English language: "I was wrong."

I say those words often - when I am.

It's your turn however.

$10 says you don't have what it takes.

sudja

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RE: Does Dominance = Parenting? - 7/19/2005 8:39:12 AM

Faramir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sudja

quote:

If it just sliped out - if you look back and think, "I didn't really need to say that" than a simple retraction would be in order. The hardest fucking words in the English language: "I was wrong."

I say those words often - when I am.

It's your turn however.

$10 says you don't have what it takes.

sudja

But I'm not in error though!!!

It's hardly a failure of courage to not admit an error when you don't think you have committed one- in fact the reverse - it would an act of moral cowardice and dishonest to change a position to please or mollify another.

You made a self-congratulatory and smug comment that has a derogatory implication for those who don't share the same intimacy framework as you, and that's to your discredit.

How about this though: I was a completely abrasive asshole. I could have pointed out the the fault in your post with infintely more grace, tact and gentleness, and instead I was scathing, harsh and vulgar in my language.

For that you have my unqualified and sincere apology.

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